Re: [neonixie-l] Digest for neonixie-l@googlegroups.com - 20 updates in 6 topics

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westdave

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Mar 24, 2017, 3:58:05 PM3/24/17

to neoni...@googlegroups.com

6844 saga continues.

"in the past I too quest for picoseconds "conan the barbarian" or was it westdave?

i used 6 of the very pretty bullet shaped B6844 nos nib, i ran them at specs with a clock that ran with a 10mhz rubinium oscillator that could have been out of a US ICBM sold to china as dismantled parts and sold back to california ,they run hot to the touch and are stable to about 10 to the negitive 11th .0and elevan zeros ,and i was running against a EM608A GPS mod putting out a nice clean one second from space.(to see if they would drift apart and how long it took to error)

the B6844's lasted one month and then they were as black as coal,even the hours rated in the specs are low ,so i pulled them and plugged in the radioactive nixie with the (long number )and changed the very neon color, for a sharp, pink/orange, these will last forever.

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From: neonixie-l <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
To: Digest recipients <neoni...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Mar 24, 2017 12:51 am
Subject: [neonixie-l] Digest for neoni...@googlegroups.com - 20 updates in 6 topics

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IN-13 Burn-in - 3 Updates
6844A saga - 10 Updates
HV control chips - 2 Updates
Digest for neoni...@googlegroups.com - 24 updates in 4 topics - 2 Updates
IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019 - 2 Updates
brightest nixie tube clock already assembled - 1 Update

IN-13 Burn-in

Willsor <will....@gmail.com>: Mar 23 10:36AM -0700

Sorry for the slow reply!

Yes I have double checked all the connections and they are correct.
I may try to burn them in again with a slightly higher current.

On Friday, 17 March 2017 16:55:51 UTC, marta_kson wrote:

Paul Andrews <pa...@nixies.us>: Mar 23 01:43PM -0700

There is an article about IN-13 tubes
here: https://www.saltechips.com/lab/the-parasitic-current-leakage-mechanism-of-the-in-13-tube/.
The whole site is dedicated to those tubes. It is very interesting reading
for anyone interested in how Nixie tubes work.

On Thursday, March 16, 2017 at 8:20:06 AM UTC-4, Willsor wrote:

Tomasz Kowalczyk <ten....@gmail.com>: Mar 24 12:23AM -0700

This is very interesting. Do you know (or does anybody know) if the same
applies to IN-9?

W dniu czwartek, 23 marca 2017 21:43:25 UTC+1 użytkownik Paul Andrews
napisał:

6844A saga

Paul Andrews <pa...@nixies.us>: Mar 23 08:06AM -0700

Hi all,

I recently bought some 6844A tubes of ebay - I fancied making a four tube
clock with round top-view tubes. In my head I had assumed that these would
be doped with mercury, but they aren't. However, before I found that out I
bought four Raytheon JAN 6844A tubes and 2 Burroughs 6844A tubes - I
figured if I changed my mind and wanted to make a six tube clock, I might
as well have the extra tubes lying around. Another assumption: They would
have the same mechanical specs, but they actually look very different - I
prefer the look of the Burroughs tubes.

All of them are NOS.

So, I tested them and the Raytheon tubes are fine. One had Cathode
poisoning (NOS? It was in the original box!). That was easily fixed with
some over current and it was fascinating to see that work - this is the
first time I have had to do that.

The Burroughs tubes are quite a different story. On one of them, half the
digits don't light up, but the leads to the digits do! I have posted some
pictures below. On the other one, none of the digits light up - only the
leads. Well, I'm going to put this down to experience - I am probably not
going to build a clock with tubes that aren't doped with mercury - but I
would like opinions as to what might be going on with the Burroughs tubes.
Note that the behavior is independent of the actual anode current - other
than how brightly they glow!

This one shows just the lead lighting up:

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-z6PoJP4nnLg/WNPjcEjdM3I/AAAAAAAAAgM/ZNebX4kd688dm4tLHQctcx4gKlWhKQ4VQCLcB/s1600/IMG_1285.JPG>

This shows the digit 3 and the lead lighting up:

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FqBjwt1dVbQ/WNPjh-0kJoI/AAAAAAAAAgQ/Y3dHcwgftdcZzKl_Hdq-hV6CSKo_Pf9KQCLcB/s1600/IMG_1286.JPG>

This shows a lead and a 'not connected' pin lighting up:

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RxhpDHCFwfY/WNPjmNaOt7I/AAAAAAAAAgU/Qpm6i0ZEfQg2-FVLJq-dDXwgij2bSoSOwCLcB/s1600/IMG_1287.JPG>

This shows the digit 2 behaving itself!

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WsXz-S9LjuY/WNPjUwcZxiI/AAAAAAAAAgI/IqMWFM_bOCI8zIcgPCgBH98EAZQwRW_0gCLcB/s1600/IMG_1283.JPG>

Dekatron42 <martin....@gmail.com>: Mar 23 08:28AM -0700

Raising the anode voltage has always cleared the problem with the wires
glowing for me.

/Martin

John Rehwinkel <jre...@mac.com>: Mar 23 11:37AM -0400

I don't know what's going on either, but the orange, pink and green glows simultaneously are wonderful! I kind of what that tube for myself now.

- John

<judg...@gmail.com>: Mar 23 11:47AM -0400

The green is easy to reproduce. Just wear a fluorescent green running jersey when you look a the tubes!

From: John Rehwinkel
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 11:37 AM
To: 'Grahame' via neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] 6844A saga

I don't know what's going on either, but the orange, pink and green glows simultaneously are wonderful! I kind of what that tube for myself now.

- John

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gregebert <greg...@hotmail.com>: Mar 23 08:50AM -0700

I've seen this on 5031's; I was unable to cleanse them even with very high
current (tube got very warm...)

If you cant get the 6844's to clear-up, switch to 5092's. They are
trouble-free; I have not had a single failure out of 24 tubes I've been
running for the past 6 years.

"chuck richards" <chu...@all2easy.net>: Mar 23 08:59AM -0700

I too have a rather long 6844A saga to tell!

Back in 2010 I built a 6844A clock. It works fine, the tubes are
fine. They do not have mercury, therefore the color is more
orange with no blue outline. This clock has a toggle switch on the
front
to shut off the readouts. I only run the tubes when I want to see
them,
otherwise they stay dark.

This clock keeps the best time of any of them.
It's a free-running clock, not connected to any time synching source
such
as WWVB or GPS. It holds up the correct time within about +/- 1
second per year.

The biggest problem I had with the 6844s was with the sockets.
There is a certain type of socket which very easily cracks the glass
from way too much sideways force on the pins. There is another type
of
socket which has much more supple forks which are mounted in nice
generous holes so they can move around to accommodate the pin
spacing. Found this all out the hard way after those "tube-killer"
sockets ruined (2) of my NOS 6844A tubes!!

At least my 6844a saga taught me the difference between real
sockets and cheap imitation junk sockets which are no good.

In my opinion, building a 6844A clock with the tubes mounted
in sockets out the front is well worth doing!

Chuck

>https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/d4b55acf-389d-46cd-9d71-
>0109ace4e35c%40googlegroups.com.
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jb-electronics <webm...@jb-electronics.de>: Mar 23 10:33AM -0600

Personally, I am also a fan of the orange glow with no mercury :) Jens

On 3/23/2017 9:59 AM, chuck richards wrote:

Paul Andrews <pa...@nixies.us>: Mar 23 10:34AM -0700

Well this is fun! I upped the current signifcantly (6.9mA - just over 2x
recommended max), which caused some internal arcing briefly! Blew a
resistor (I guess it was a 1/4 W. Interestingly it went from being a 5.1K
to being a 27K resistor).

Bottom line is it kinda sorta works. But the results are patchy and some of
the wires still glow some.

The Raytheon's are much better engineered. All of the incoming gubbins is
sprayed with something white - maybe an insulating coating - and the anode
mesh has some kind of arrangement in the anode to let out the splatter. You
can see some in the pictures below.

@Chuck, do you have a photo of the sockets you used? Though I was planning
on just making my own.

@gregebert, I like the dome shape on the Burroughs 6844A tubes. The 5092
tubes are more like the Raytheons.

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RiyMtutjkwg/WNQGOsVWHII/AAAAAAAAAgk/FN6lQb3nscozJcUZoFf40obR3WlxDvNJwCLcB/s1600/IMG_1290.JPG>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XD8ZfGYbW_c/WNQGSEf0aXI/AAAAAAAAAgo/TD1Nkub_0XkDkzu9M2dEEoV1xrir0xgfACLcB/s1600/IMG_1289.JPG>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6liI4uzjai0/WNQGWLKEgII/AAAAAAAAAgs/eVacslStxp807Y-XerzDOm8jC8wTfb05ACLcB/s1600/IMG_1288.JPG>

"Jeff Walton" <jwalt...@gmail.com>: Mar 23 02:02PM -0500

As the cathodes are “cleaned” by running at higher current, the problem with the wire glow may go away at regular current levels. My understanding is that a 40-50 year old tube that has not been run may still end up with some mild impurities on the cathodes which will “burn off” after running for awhile. Old tubes generally take a few moments to light reliably when first powered up.

The wire glow is sometimes impossible to fix, especially if there is no insulating coating layer on the wires.

Jeff

From: neonixie-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Andrews
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 12:35 PM
To: neonixie-l
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: 6844A saga

Well this is fun! I upped the current signifcantly (6.9mA - just over 2x recommended max), which caused some internal arcing briefly! Blew a resistor (I guess it was a 1/4 W. Interestingly it went from being a 5.1K to being a 27K resistor).

Bottom line is it kinda sorta works. But the results are patchy and some of the wires still glow some.

The Raytheon's are much better engineered. All of the incoming gubbins is sprayed with something white - maybe an insulating coating - and the anode mesh has some kind of arrangement in the anode to let out the splatter. You can see some in the pictures below.

@Chuck, do you have a photo of the sockets you used? Though I was planning on just making my own.

@gregebert, I like the dome shape on the Burroughs 6844A tubes. The 5092 tubes are more like the Raytheons.

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-RiyMtutjkwg/WNQGOsVWHII/AAAAAAAAAgk/FN6lQb3nscozJcUZoFf40obR3WlxDvNJwCLcB/s1600/IMG_1290.JPG>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-XD8ZfGYbW_c/WNQGSEf0aXI/AAAAAAAAAgo/TD1Nkub_0XkDkzu9M2dEEoV1xrir0xgfACLcB/s1600/IMG_1289.JPG>

<https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-6liI4uzjai0/WNQGWLKEgII/AAAAAAAAAgs/eVacslStxp807Y-XerzDOm8jC8wTfb05ACLcB/s1600/IMG_1288.JPG>

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Paul Andrews <pa...@nixies.us>: Mar 23 05:27PM -0700

Running them at a high currenr for a while has workee, except for one
holdout. This digit will light at about 4mA, which is the maximum
recommended. Occasionally it will light at 2mA. When it lights it pulls the
same current as all the other digits, otherwise it draws less. So I am
wondering if a constant current source might convince this recalcitrant
digit to light. Or maybe I just want to play with a constant current source!

I've looked up a bunch of sources on the web (and here on this group!), but
I really don't know enough to follow what is being said. I really need a
circuit diagram, with specific parts and maybe some formulae I can slap in
a spreadsheet if I need to adjust stuff. I get that there are drawbacks to
simple solutions, but this is just to play around with. If anyone could
help me out with this, I would be very grateful. In the meantime, I will
keep plugging away with what I can find on the internet.

HV control chips

Luka C <luka.culi...@gmail.com>: Mar 23 09:26AM -0700

Small update:

After some further research, I've decided that those current limiting
diodes are a bit too expensive for the clock (6 x 15 = 90 diodes). I've
implemented a current source using a depletion type MOSFET along with a
resistor like in the attachment, I'll test it out and see how it works.
Since these types of MOSFET have some margin in the Vgs between batches
(apparently the Vgs is written on each reel), I'll adjust the resistor size
after purchasing a lot of them first.

Dana ponedjeljak, 27. veljače 2017. u 18:32:10 UTC+1, korisnik gregebert
napisao je:

gregebert <greg...@hotmail.com>: Mar 23 12:20PM -0700

Should work, but be careful about Vgs(on) variations, because they will
directly impact the current.

I use a similar approach, but it's a PMOS, and I put a bias on the gate
with an isolated 12V DCDC converter --> pot (so I can adjust current). The
bias reduces the effect of Vgs(on) variation. BTW, the DCDC converter and
the pot gives me an adjustable 0 to -12V (relative to the anode supply),
that is tied in-common to all of the anode-current regulators.

Digest for neoni...@googlegroups.com - 24 updates in 4 topics

westdave <west...@aol.com>: Mar 23 02:37PM -0400

yeah? but i still like the Lixies, and do not have the equipment to make them,

so a purchase is preferred (yep a born sucker, just awaiting) aspersions?
noun
1.
a damaging or derogatory remark or criticism; slander:
casting aspersions on a campaign rival.

2.
the act of slandering; vilification; defamation; calumniation;derogation:
Such vehement aspersions cannot be ignored.

"theres one born every minute,and two to take him!" P.T .barnum

-----Original Message-----
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To: Digest recipients <neonixie-l...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thu, Mar 23, 2017 12:49 am
Subject: [neonixie-l] Digest for neonixie-l...@googlegroups.com - 24 updates in 4 topics

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IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019 - 11 Updates

Inductor specs in threeneuron's HV PSU - 7 Updates

Lixies/Tixie Clock - 5 Updates

question about threeneurons clock kit - 1 Update

IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019

Piano Forte <pianof...@gmail.com>: Mar 22 04:14PM -0700

RE:IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019

I reached out to Dieter and Claus, and Claus advised that the IN18 Blue
Dream (PCB & Kit) is out of production until 2019 (!) - any background on
this development?, its a pity since I was about to order a second BD - I
should have ordered a second one last year.when I first had the
inclination.............

gregebert <greg...@hotmail.com>: Mar 22 05:21PM -0700

Just guessing here, but the supply of IN-18's continues to dwindle.
Meanwhile, Dalibor continues to crank-out more tubes, so my crystal ball
says you will see a kit with some flavor of new-production nixies.

Dan Hollis <parkxz...@anime.net>: Mar 22 05:30PM -0700

Greg P <Gregory...@verizon.net>: Mar 22 07:06PM -0700

Buy the PV Electronics Spectrum 18.

http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=157

Great kit, great support, in stock, direct drive, many case options and way
more features at a much more attractive price point.

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 7:14:57 PM UTC-4, Piano Forte wrote:

Gene Segal <wave...@earthlink.net>: Mar 22 07:22PM -0700

I wonder if the production stopping is in some way related to
questionable customer service for the Blue Dream?

Good to know there are other options out there.

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Nicholas Stock <nick...@gmail.com>: Mar 22 07:30PM -0700

I'll echo the perceived lack of service too....I've repaired two blue dream
clocks for people as no support was offered..

Pete's Spectrum 18 is a great clock for a very good price.

Nick

Piano Forte <pianof...@gmail.com>: Mar 22 09:43PM -0700

Thanks for the recommendations everyone - I actually reached out to Pete
shortly after the BD discontinuation news, and ordered his Spectrum 18 kit,
PIR and Case last week. He has been an absolute pleasure to work with -
responsive, accommodated special requests and provided a first-rate
experience overall during my first order with him.

I ended up losing a tube to gas leakage on my BlueDream, and I attribute it
to the rigid cup-style pin holders that stress the gas seal (1992/02 date
code tube failed after 10 months of service, even leaving it in the same
location). I am afraid to move the tubes around the BD, and Pete's design
solves the pin stress issues (also like the PIR shutoff feature).

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 7:30:52 PM UTC-7, Pramanicin wrote:

Alic <al...@gmx.net>: Mar 22 10:26PM -0700

It's a pity. It's still my favorite IN-18 clock because it is compact and I like the proportions (the tubes are on the axis of the board).
I was also secretly hoping that the black'n'wood would become available again.

Maybe things have changed since.
Also, I don't know what others expect from someone who sells nixie DIY clock kits as a hobby, but on the rare occasions when I had a question or a problem with Claus' and Dieter's clocks, I always received good advice on how to repair it myself.

The board of the Blue dream isn't expensive enough to be sent back (especially from the USA) and spend hours on a repair.

I never had problems with gas leaks with the nixies I bought from Dieter with the clocks.
One set is from '92 as well.

I did have problems with tubes off eBay where the pins were not straight.

"Jeff Walton" <jwalt...@gmail.com>: Mar 23 12:48AM -0500

Agree, Pete is great to work with. Very good customer service!

------------------------

Did you have a schematic to do the repairs on the Blue Dream?

Jeff

From: neonixie-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Piano Forte
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2017 11:44 PM
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019

Thanks for the recommendations everyone - I actually reached out to Pete shortly after the BD discontinuation news, and ordered his Spectrum 18 kit, PIR and Case last week. He has been an absolute pleasure to work with - responsive, accommodated special requests and provided a first-rate experience overall during my first order with him.

I ended up losing a tube to gas leakage on my BlueDream, and I attribute it to the rigid cup-style pin holders that stress the gas seal (1992/02 date code tube failed after 10 months of service, even leaving it in the same location). I am afraid to move the tubes around the BD, and Pete's design solves the pin stress issues (also like the PIR shutoff feature).

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 7:30:52 PM UTC-7, Pramanicin wrote:

I'll echo the perceived lack of service too....I've repaired two blue dream clocks for people as no support was offered..

Pete's Spectrum 18 is a great clock for a very good price.

Nick

On Wed, Mar 22, 2017 at 7:22 PM, Gene Segal <wave...@earthlink.net <javascript:> > wrote:

I wonder if the production stopping is in some way related to questionable customer service for the Blue Dream?

Good to know there are other options out there.

<javascript:> Greg P

March 22, 2017 at 7:06 PM

Buy the PV Electronics Spectrum 18.

http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info <http://www.pvelectronics.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=18&products_id=157> &cPath=18&products_id=157

Great kit, great support, in stock, direct drive, many case options and way more features at a much more attractive price point.

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 7:14:57 PM UTC-4, Piano Forte wrote:

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<javascript:> Piano Forte

March 22, 2017 at 4:14 PM

RE:IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019

I reached out to Dieter and Claus, and Claus advised that the IN18 Blue Dream (PCB & Kit) is out of production until 2019 (!) - any background on this development?, its a pity since I was about to order a second BD - I should have ordered a second one last year.when I first had the inclination.............

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"Jeff Walton" <jwalt...@gmail.com>: Mar 23 12:53AM -0500

I also have a Blue Dream with IN-18. As you say, it is very nicely proportioned. Also, the colon fade and digit fade are among the nicest out there. It is a beautiful clock with lots of features.

It's a bit of a pain to program and I have to pull out the manual and relearn it every time I want to do something and have to make notes to remember the settings. Eventually it becomes clear. The documentation with example settings helps a lot. While I have not had any issues with the clock itself, I have lost a couple tubes (originally supplied with Blue Dream) where the tube seals failed and tube went dark. I do blame the pin socket arrangement for applying too much stress but it is certainly an elegant design and layout.

In ~2.5 years, I have "refreshed" a couple tubes on the Blue Dream that began to cathode poison, beginning with the "8". My night mode was originally set to dim to 20% and I think that might be too low and hasten poisoning the cathodes if the clock sees any amount of hours, so I increased the dim setting to 40% and have not seen any poisoning for awhile.

I do have a motion sensor outlet that powers the clock fully off after 10 minutes of no motion activity, so I think it will help the overall tube life. The internal battery that holds the time and settings is supposed to be good for ~10 years and this is OK to do per Dieter and the latest manual. It does change the start time that date and cathode poisoning prevention occur. The counters for the display functions start when the power is reapplied. So by cycling the full power, on one cycle, the date may show at the top of the hour and on the next motion cycle, it will be different. On mine, the date will show 55 seconds after power turn on time if you set a 55 sec time, 5 sec date display ratio. If you power on and off as I do, you also need to set the cathode poisoning cycle to occur at a frequency that is shorter than the external motion timer or it will not count up long enough to ever digit cycle if the clock doesn't stay on long enough.

One thing that would be helpful for repair is if anyone has a Blue Dream schematic that we could keep for troubleshooting. The brains of the clock are in the firmware (protects the design) so it would be nice to at least have an electrical schematic in case parts ever fail and need troubleshooting/replacing. The assembly documentation is very nice but contains no schematic except for a breakout of the DIN connector for using an AUX output. I asked Nocrotec for one some time ago but never got a response. I'd love to add a PIR to the clock instead of the motion sensor outlet to keep the display timers alive.

Anyone ever see a schematic of the IN-18 Blue Dream to share? Hopefully, they bring the Blue Dream back because it is really a great looking clock!

Jeff

-----Original Message-----
From: neonixie-l...@googlegroups.com [mailto:neoni...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alic
Sent: Thursday, March 23, 2017 12:27 AM
To: neonixie-l
Subject: Re: [neonixie-l] Re: IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019

It's a pity. It's still my favorite IN-18 clock because it is compact and I like the proportions (the tubes are on the axis of the board).
I was also secretly hoping that the black'n'wood would become available again.

Maybe things have changed since.
Also, I don't know what others expect from someone who sells nixie DIY clock kits as a hobby, but on the rare occasions when I had a question or a problem with Claus' and Dieter's clocks, I always received good advice on how to repair it myself.

The board of the Blue dream isn't expensive enough to be sent back (especially from the USA) and spend hours on a repair.

I never had problems with gas leaks with the nixies I bought from Dieter with the clocks.
One set is from '92 as well.

I did have problems with tubes off eBay where the pins were not straight.

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Alic <al...@gmx.net>: Mar 23 12:02AM -0700

I know I received a link to schematic for the black'n'wood which I downloaded, but I have to check when I'm home for the one of the blue dream.

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Inductor specs in threeneuron's HV PSU

"Morten Mønsted" <m...@mcb.dk>: Mar 22 03:40AM -0700

Hi,

IN18 Blue Dream out-of-production until 2019

Peter H <peter.hu...@gmail.com>: Mar 23 01:03AM -0700

I have 2 of these clocks, I had some problems with one of it (it was my
mistake) and I received a very good support and it's a great nixie clock.

Am Donnerstag, 23. März 2017 08:02:55 UTC+1 schrieb Alic:

Greg P <Gregory...@verizon.net>: Mar 23 07:21AM -0700

I agree with you Nick! There was quite the heated exchange a couple of
months ago between me and Dieter, but the moderators flagged and deleted
the thread. I'd be happy to discuss privately if anyone is interested?

On Wednesday, March 22, 2017 at 10:30:52 PM UTC-4, Pramanicin wrote:

brightest nixie tube clock already assembled

Tomasz Kowalczyk <ten....@gmail.com>: Mar 23 02:53AM -0700

Fun fact about LC-516 and why they look a bit different from IN-1
(hexagonal grid):
LC-516 was made in a very similar way as LC-513 were done with same method
(probably same machines to save costs), and later they had B13B to U11
adapter glued to them. I found photos of an LC-516 with black part taken
off:
http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3143775400_1361302255.jpg
http://obrazki.elektroda.pl/2781526900_1361307069.jpg
I wonder what would happen if the plastic part of IN-1 would be removed...
unfortunately I don't own any.

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