"The Fortress " an E1T clock coming soon...

[Grahame]

Hi All

Over the last year Nick Stock and I have been working on a clock using six E1T decade counting tubes. I have been working on the electronics and firmware and Nick has been working on the overall presentation and case for the clock.

Here's a preliminary view of the clock:

This show a development test case using laser cut acrylic. Our final "built and tested" case will be black anodised machined aluminium. Over the top will go a clear acrylic cover to protect the tubes. The PCBs are green solder mask prototypes but the final boards will be black.

The project has reach the point where we are about to order the PCBs and we will then work toward having the clock available. We should have the clock available all the way from just bare PCB sets to fully built and tested.

The main points about the electronics design are - SAM3X8C 32 bit microcontroller, firmware written in C using Atmel Studio (GCC compiler), PIR to sense room occupancy and to shut down/wake up the clock, chimes based on playing stereo WAV files, bling-bling 3 colour led modules, IR handset and rotary encoder user controls, automatic time setting using WIFI or GPS, RTC using TCXO, power supplies etc

All will be open design and open source firmware.

The purpose of this email is to try to gauge interest in the clock to help us get the right number of PCBs made.  So I would appreciate an email from any one who has some E1T tubes and might want to build a clock with them. Such an email will be on a no-obligation basis. If you choose not to buy any PCBs or a kit then that choice is still yours to make.

It is unlikely that Nick and I will be selling any E1T tubes as we only have enough for our own clocks and for what we hope to sell with built and tested.

If you want to see more about the clock, then this link will take you to a work-in-progress case 3D render:

https://a360.co/2U5lDPZ

And this link will take you to a dropbox where you will find some rough documentation, Eagle files, work-in-progress 3D printed parts, DXF files for acrylic cutting and so on:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/6eoeioya5ljh116/AAClQipdvQUYd7n6a6jbGigua?dl=0

If nothing else, you will see from the dropbox what we feel being "open" is all about.

So, if you might be interested then drop us a line, there is no obligation on your part, the only obligation is on us to keep you informed of progress and, eventually, the kit options and prices.

Enjoy! Questions?

Nick and Grahame

[Terry S]

Nice work guys. If only tubes were more available.

Terry

[Terry Kennedy]

On Saturday, February 16, 2019 at 5:48:53 PM UTC-5, Sgitheach wrote:

The purpose of this email is to try to gauge interest in the clock to help us get the right number of PCBs made.  So I would appreciate an email from any one who has some E1T tubes and might want to build a clock with them. Such an email will be on a no-obligation basis. If you choose not to buy any PCBs or a kit then that choice is still yours to make.

It is unlikely that Nick and I will be selling any E1T tubes as we only have enough for our own clocks and for what we hope to sell with built and tested.

I would definitely be interested in an "all parts except tubes" kit. If you will be having the SMT components wave-soldered, I'll take the version with pre-soldered SMT, otherwise I'll take the version with all components unsoldered.

A few things which you may or may not have considered:

1) When I was trying to purchase an E1T clock from another designer here some years ago, they were very reluctant to sell one without tubes as apparently their firmware needed to be calibrated to deal with manufacturing variations in the E1T tubes. Have you encountered this issue and if so, do you have workarounds in place?

2) Given the rarity of E1T tubes, anything that extends their life will be a Good Thing. I would guess (but have no actual data to back that guess up) that the longest life would be from reducing filament voltage when the clock is in "sleep" mode (either from PIR timeout or scheduled sleep times). I would think that would provide longer life than either leaving the filaments on 100% at all times, or completely un-powering them in sleep mode. I thing Greg Ebert (also a member here) has done a great deal of work characterizing filaments and may have some useful info to add.

3) It would be nice if in addition to the on-board WiFi and GPS options, there was an option for an external (RS-232 or TTL) GPS receiver that provides NMEA sentences. That would let this clock use the same GPS distribution system as my other clocks (GPS timing provide by the MOD-SIX repeater). 

[Grahame]

Yep, hence my caution on how many PCBs sets to buy. Easy to buy too many. So I thought I would ask in case anyone is sitting on some with no clock to build.

You have to fight on ebay for them. I understand Jan https://www.die-wuestens.de/eindex.htm might have some. Whatever the source, they are not a cheap tube - and the clock uses six of them. I've never got my hands on an East German clone but I have every expectation that they will work.

On 17/02/2019 03:11, Terry S wrote:

Nice work guys. If only tubes were more available.

Terry

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/28209447-d817-4367-a9c3-4c2612a028f0%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[Grahame]

Hi Terry,

I think I can answer all of your points. On the run into this project I built a lite placer pick and place machine https://www.liteplacer.com/ and built and tested a large toaster oven for reflow soldering. I'm converted to the dark side and mostly use SMD parts now. For example, this is the SAM3X8C 4 layer microcontroller plug in board:

The lite placer builds it in 10 minutes (I don't run it at full speed) as against a few hours and serious back ache... So pre-fitted SMD parts is going to be my preferred route.

Your other points:

1. The E1T needs two pulse inputs. One to reset the tube to zero and one to step the tube forwards. The reset pulse is a a fairly brute force effort and not hard to generate. The step pulse is more tricky requiring a sawtooth waveform for a certain peak voltage, a defined rise time and a defined decay time.

In investigating E1T designs I found clocks by Dieter Wächter http://www.tube-tester.com/sites/nixie/different/e1t-clock/e1t.htm and and Ron Dekker http://www.dos4ever.com/E1T_clock/E1T.html . The reset pulse generators are more or less the same, the step pulse designs are quiet different. So I built and tested both. (BTW I have corresponded with both Dieter and Ron and acknowledge and reference their work in the the clock documentation.) I found Dieter's design, shall I say, more fussy. Using Ron's design I can step all of the E1Ts I own without firmware tuning except two tubes. Those two tubes are most seriously worn and are effectively dead. To keep choices open, the E1T driver board will take either Dieter's or Ron's design but I'm planning on fitting Ron's. Lastly, I'm not asking the tubes to run at there design speed of 30kHz, effectively I only use them to count at 1kHz at the most.

More info here:

http://www.dos4ever.com/trochotron/TROCH.html

http://www.dos4ever.com/E1T/E1T.html

Electronic Counting Circuits JB Dance 1967

2. The sleep options are to run the heaters at full power 24/7 or shut them down completely when a set period of inactivity has been seen by the PIR (the heater power choice and time periods are all user adjustable without burning the firmware). I know there are various schools of thought on extending heater life including keeping them simmering on low power. The clock doesn't do the latter. My understanding is that the greatest risk to the heater is when its resistance is lowest when fully cold and so the peak current will be highest on switch on. So the 6.3V heater PSU slow starts the output, taking 7 seconds to rise from 0V to 6.3V. If you want a slower rise then it is not hard to change this period by changing single capacitor on the main board.

3) The selection of WIFI or GPS is made using a plug in board, both cannot be fitted simultaneously. The the plug in board communicates with the SAM using 3.3V TTL (not 5V!). So if you have an external NMEA source it is trivial to feed that into the connector. I use the default 4800 baud speed, another speed would require a trivial firmware change. I have designed (but not built) a RS232 plug in board so that a wider range of external time sources can be accommodated.

Grahame

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/856e344f-694e-476e-baa9-7509401010ce%40googlegroups.com.

[Dan Harboe Burer]

Hi Nick,

I have tubes and I'd be interested in a kit.

It would be fun to see them in action again :)

BR Dan

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/19b07c42-9afe-731d-f958-3444f70427ff%40googlemail.com.

[Dekatron42]

Telefunken and other manufacturers of counters with the E1T used two simple changes to the design to be able to adjust the circuit to be able to use tubes with wider tolerances, the first was to run them in a design with up to 400V anode voltage, the design was compensated for this higher voltage, but they also had a much simpler design which just incorporated a 10k potentiometer in series with the 15k cathode resistor. This potentiometer is then used to adjust for different tube characteristics. I haven't seen Philips present similar circuits but they were probably using them too. I've tested both designs but find the one with the 10k potentiometer a lot easier to use. It let me run quite a few more of the tubes in my scrap bin, but more importantly I think it is a good way of sorting tubes that behave like new from tubes that will soon end in the scrap bin, apart from letting them run in an unmodified original circuit. I haven't found any documents describing this change but it appears in some of the Telefunken counters.

/Martin

[Dekatron42]

Nice!

Nice looking design, any chance that you can make a black or dark translucent case, or will you release the case design files? I've just seen a matte black laser cut plastic that I think would look lovely.

/Martin

[Terry Kennedy]

On Sunday, February 17, 2019 at 3:20:08 AM UTC-5, Sgitheach wrote:

   

The lite placer builds it in 10 minutes (I don't run it at full speed) as against a few hours and serious back ache... So pre-fitted SMD parts is going to be my preferred route.

Sounds good.

 

Your other points:

1. The E1T needs two pulse inputs. One to reset the tube to zero and one to step the tube forwards. The reset pulse is a a fairly brute force effort and not hard to generate. The step pulse is more tricky requiring a sawtooth waveform for a certain peak voltage, a defined rise time and a defined decay time.

More info here:

http://www.dos4ever.com/E1T/E1T.html

My footprints are all over that article 8-}

My E1Ts are of uncertain age and ancestry. Hopefully they all work. If not, I'll have to trade some NIMO tubes for working E1Ts/

 

2. The sleep options are to run the heaters at full power 24/7 or shut them down completely when a set period of inactivity has been seen by the PIR (the heater power choice and time periods are all user adjustable without burning the firmware). I know there are various schools of thought on extending heater life including keeping them simmering on low power. The clock doesn't do the latter. My understanding is that the greatest risk to the heater is when its resistance is lowest when fully cold and so the peak current will be highest on switch on. So the 6.3V heater PSU slow starts the output, taking 7 seconds to rise from 0V to 6.3V. If you want a slower rise then it is not hard to change this period by changing single capacitor on the main board.

  That sounds like a good solution.

 

3) The selection of WIFI or GPS is made using a plug in board, both cannot be fitted simultaneously. The the plug in board communicates with the SAM using 3.3V TTL (not 5V!). So if you have an external NMEA source it is trivial to feed that into the connector. I use the default 4800 baud speed, another speed would require a trivial firmware change. I have designed (but not built) a RS232 plug in board so that a wider range of external time sources can be accommodated.

I can probably provide 3.3V, but if there's an RS-232 board available that is probably a safer bet. 

[Grahame]

Hi Martin

Hopefully the case will be available as machined anodised aluminium (expensive but very nice), laser cut acrylic (cheaper)(clear, black, etc you choose) and as DXF and SVG cutting files for you to make your own. The case is held together with 3D printed parts so these will be available (the E1T bases are 3D printed) to buy and again as STL files. I will have available the Fusion 360 files if anyone wants to modify them.

The dust cover will be welded butt joints (expensive) or held together with 3D printed corners (Låda parts https://wyolum.com/lada-a-custom-project-box-system/). The welded butt jointed case is likely to be bought in but an overall dimensioned drawing will be available as a DXF file. The Låda version will be available to buy (flat packed!) and as DXF/SVG/STL etc for anyone to roll their own.

Open Design!

Grahame

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/97627dfa-6524-4819-b6ae-078a6f317b2b%40googlegroups.com.

[Grahame]

Hi Martin

I shall have a play when I get a chance. Increasing the anode voltage is not a problem and a pot in cathode is easy to try. Do you know if any other voltages or component values were changed? There is too much magic involved with these tubes so I stuck closely to the datasheet and the arrangements described by JB Dance.

Grahame

On 17/02/2019 11:41, Dekatron42 wrote:

Telefunken and other manufacturers of counters with the E1T used two simple changes to the design to be able to adjust the circuit to be able to use tubes with wider tolerances, the first was to run them in a design with up to 400V anode voltage, the design was compensated for this higher voltage, but they also had a much simpler design which just incorporated a 10k potentiometer in series with the 15k cathode resistor. This potentiometer is then used to adjust for different tube characteristics. I haven't seen Philips present similar circuits but they were probably using them too. I've tested both designs but find the one with the 10k potentiometer a lot easier to use. It let me run quite a few more of the tubes in my scrap bin, but more importantly I think it is a good way of sorting tubes that behave like new from tubes that will soon end in the scrap bin, apart from letting them run in an unmodified original circuit. I haven't found any documents describing this change but it appears in some of the Telefunken counters.

/Martin

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/6047b0a3-1c0c-4129-83f5-35afbe0c4550%40googlegroups.com.

[Dekatron42]

Most of the components where kept identical, even the cathode resistor, but the resistor on the a1 output anode was raised to some 560k as this signal was mostly used to directly reset the E1T via a capacitor directly to the D' and a2 electrodes, the capacitor value was selected according to what counting frequency you were after (330pF-1nF). The other voltages were also raised accordingly 15.8V(11.9V), 208V & 226V (used for limits for the pulse voltage on the D electrode).

Sticking to the datasheet is the way to go when you count at slow speeds, below the usual limit of 30kHz, but with troublesome tubes the extra 10k potentiometer is a good way to weed out the really bad ones, just as when you want to weed out the ones that don't count much further than 30kHz and the ones that sometimes miss a counting step but works fine otherwise.

Really nice that the case design will have different possibilities!

/Martin

[Grahame]

Hi

Yes, I understand that the voltages scale, I suppose that is expected. In early experiments I found some tubes would count with, say, 320V anode voltage but not 300V. This was when I was not forming the sawtooth step pulse correctly.

In the section on running an E1T counter at 100kHz, Dance says "It is important that the first E1T tube should be selected carefully." He presents a test circuit to select high frequency tubes (100kHz) and the remainder that don't pass the test are used for other counts (< 30kHz).

I don't use the A1 output anode to detect a count of '10' but maintain a position list in the firmware and send a reset pulse to move to '0' when you try step beyond  '9'.

Thanks

Grahame

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/252715da-5fd1-4883-8f02-441caa3305f3%40googlegroups.com.

[Dekatron42]

Yes, that marginal test circuit is good for checking the pulse shape. I've never seen the circuit with the 10k potentiometer mentioned anywhere though, not even in Philips literature, but it weeds out tubes with what I guess is low emission from the cathode.

I'd use the a1 electrode as you can then check if a tube either has counted more than one step at a time and correct it, or just note that that tube sometimes steps more than one step.

/Martin

[Nick]

Hi

Good project - I'm in!

What reflow oven are you using - I have a controleo3 kit but have not chosen the oven yet...

Cheers

Nick

[Grahame]

Hi Nick

The oven I'm using is a "VonShef 46L Mini Oven". I knew the E1T boards were going to be about 100mm x 340mm so I needed an oven with sufficient area to take that size board. In practice that oven is 390mm wide internally. I followed the Whizoo installation/build recommendations, especially for insulation and installing additional bottom heating elements. I bought a conventional 300 degC rated oven lamp as the oven does not come with an oven. I used a small Chinese switcher PSU for the 5V and Chinese solid state relays to switch the three heaters separately.

No problems with it at all. I have run a lot of tests, measuring the temperature in the centre, edges and corners and see little or no temperature differences. Much better than my previous uninsulated oven. I've reflowed 15 52mm x 52mm boards in one go spreading them out in a 5 x 3 array and there was no differences between the centre and the corner boards. I've used both common lead free paste, lead containing paste and low temperature paste by editing the profile text file.

I bought the oven through Tesco as I could get free delivery to the local store in Dingwall. So was cheaper than other box-movers. Not sure but a quick look for sellers shows it is out of stock everywhere suggesting the model might be superseded. B'gg'r't.

Grahame

[Jon D.]

Hi,

I am very interested in a kit (possibly two).  Really glad to see this clock development!  I have 15-20 E1Ts I've collected over the years but have not tested (yet), and many are NOS NIB.  I even have Grahame's E1T tester, but I haven't assembled it yet (life keeps getting in the way !!), so maybe now I'll find a reason to get going on that.

Cheers,

Jon D.

[Dekatron42]

One of the 400V circuits is actually shown on page 172-173 in the Dance book, just had a look.

Will you be using a preset-circuit for the E1Ts or will you just step them up to their setting one step at a time?

From experience I know that some of the E1Ts get extremely hot at the heater in the back, well enough to burn my fingers, not all do though, so have you checked that there is enough space between the E1T and the acrylic?

/Martin

[Dave]

Awesome!  I have a stash of these tubes and this just may be the ticket!

On Saturday, February 16, 2019 at 5:48:53 PM UTC-5, Sgitheach wrote:

[Grahame]

Hi

Yes, I've seen that 400V circuit but it is not one I've followed through on it.

The reset will always be to zero and then I pulse the tube, e.g. '8' to '2' is 'reset' 'step' 'step'. Each E1T uses three I/O lines from the microcontroller: 'HT switch', 'reset' and 'step pulse'. So each E1T can be individually selected to glow. Then two further I/O lines can switch the 6.3V heater PSU and the +300V PSU for the whole display. In the clock as a whole, I started with 62 I/O lines from the SAM and I'm using 60 of them. I step pulse the tubes at 1mS intervals so the eye sees very little of the steps, in fact, I want to do the opposite which is to allow the step pulses to be longer apart so the eye sees the tubes stepping.

I've run all of the E1Ts I own and not found any tubes that get unbearably hot (except when I accidentally plugged one in to 12.6V, Ooooops, it did survive). At 6.3V all are warm to the hand but not burning.  Given each tube has 2W input power I wonder why some are so hot? A quick measurement suggests the back of the tube to the acrylic cover distance will be about 40mm. Heat generation and final operating temperature is something we will keep an eye on. The heaters are the bulk of the energy input to the box so 6 * 6.3V * 0.3A =  about 12W. Overall the clock uses < 20W of power and Nick (as the case designer) knows that passive ventilation for this heat is required.

All good fun

Grahame

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/cc948685-169b-4322-9949-1629a854d1be%40googlegroups.com.

[Dekatron42]

The ones I have that get hot do it closest to the base where the heater wires enter the cathode and where they aren’t shielded. It looks like the round acrylic tube is very close to the E1T, that’s the part I wondered if it was too close.

/Martin

[Grahame]

Right, I understand. I have switched off any sleep function in my test
clock that has been running 24/7 so the clock won't shut down when the
room is unoccupied and I'll come back in a few hours and check. The test
clock has the acrylic columns cut at 45 degrees compared to 22.5 degrees
in the photo, so more of the back of the E1T is covered.

Back later...

Grahame

[Grahame]

I've had the clock on for a few hours now without it going to sleep. The worse case temperature I can measure anywhere is 55degC. Poly methyl methacrylate PMMA "acrylic" is good to a working temperature of 80degC and melts at 160degC. This doesn't deal with that case you describe with the backs of the tube being far hotter. I'm using six "Valvo" tubes but I'll get some other tubes out to try. At least I'm not dealing with some cheap knock-off Chinese version ;^)

BTW Does any one on the list have an East German clone to sell or swap?

Grahame

[Dekatron42]

Thanks for checking the heat, that explains why I burned my fingers touching it at the back.

Will acrylic crackle on the surface at this temperature or is it absolutely stable? I don't know anything about it just that I've seen some crackled acrylic near hot tubes and also red acrylic in front of Nixies being warped by the heat, this has bin some 1-3mm thick.

/Martin

[Nicholas Stock]

Hi Martin. I’m using 1/8 inch thick cast acrylic tube for the light guides and I don’t anticipate any warping/discoloring under continued usage. I haven’t noticed any particular hot spots on the tubes I’ve tested so far, but will keep an eye (finger...:-) out.

Thanks for the heads up.

Nick

Sent from my iPhone

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/2d4cf79e-381c-416b-9b1d-d4c927ad0bf3%40googlegroups.com.

[Morris Odell]

I built a E1T clock a few years ago that can be seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5I_L4KY4Qo

I had no problems with tube variations but I did make up a test jig for development of the interface so I was sure it would work once I actually built it. Mine uses a 400 volt anode supply, an Atmel Mega 32 as the processor and has a GPS receiver and PIR detector as well as a little nixie to display the number of sats in view. It's still going strong on the window sill of my study. 

I had a lot of fun doing this and of course, the nerdy technology is simply wonderful. However once it was finished it was rather unsatisfying. Unlike other clocks you can't just glance at it and know the time. We are (or at least I am) so used to either clock face or digital displays that it's an effort to get used to anything different. It was a lesson for me about the limitations of unusual display formats for such a familiar task. 

In fact since I built that clock I had a chat with a broadcast studio engineer who told me of the difficulties many announcers in radio studios have reading certain clock displays. He said that he now installs both clock face and digital clocks where announcers can see them to make sure they can read the time. In my day job in medicine the clock drawing test is a well known and very sensitive indicator of cognitive impairment. All you need to do is ask the subject to draw a clock face with the hands set to a certain time. It's amazing to watch even mildly depressed or demented patients attempting it.

Morris

[Jon D.]

I love the "slot machine" effect on the seconds E1T tube in the video.  

Do the other tubes need it as well to prevent phosphor burn in ??

Jon D.

[Morris Odell]

The other tubes do the same refresh every 10 seconds. It looks nice and helps the micro keep track of where they are. Burn in is not a problem - it doesn't spend that much time with the display active. Once the PIR is triggered it's only alive for a few minutes.

M

[Grahame]

Hi

I agree with Morris. Once the clock is awake you aggressively try to shut it down again. I have a few badly warn E1Ts and one has a burn in the zero position. It must have sat glowing in the position for a very long time. Unlike an oscilloscope tube you have no brightness control as the beam current is set for you. You also cannot jiggle the image as you can with a CRT clock. With leading zero suppression, shut down and the odd slot machine routine I don't think phosphor burn will be the cause of tube failure.

Grahame

PS nice clock Morris.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/66fdb559-1f9f-4a9e-9d2c-ce4893bf7ac4%40googlegroups.com.

[westdave]

[westdave]

I westdave, also have the E1T tubes they have been in the drawers a long time but there are 6 of them they are looking for a kit to come along

[Grahame]

As some day it may happen that a victim must be found,
I've got a little list — I've got a little list
Of society offenders who might well be underground,
And who never would be missed — who never would be missed!
There's the pestilential nuisances who write for autographs —
All people who have flabby hands and irritating laughs —
All children who are up in dates, and floor you with 'em flat —
All persons who in shaking hands, shake hands with you like that —
And all third persons who on spoiling tête-á-têtes insist —
They'd none of 'em be missed — they'd none of 'em be missed!

And now You're on the list as well.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "neonixie-l" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to neoni...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/00049398-e9e4-4bf4-b27a-fd2e2cca5d2c%40googlegroups.com.

[Grahame]

Hi All

I have just sent an email to (hopefully) everyone who replied showing
possible interest in an E1T clock kit. If you don't receive that email
and are interested then let me know so I can correct my omission.

Ta Grahame

[Stuckey]

Hi, Sgiteach -

I just came across this thread. I'd be interested in buying a kit though I'm a little worried I missed the boat on this one given the thread date. Am I too late to get in line? 

Kind regards,

Brian