Is there ever going to be a web app for MLO?

[Joel]

I could go into the reasons why I want it but mainly just want to know if there's a web version of MLO in the works? I've applied a few times to rejoin the beta group but have heard nothing from Andrey so it makes me wonder if there still is a beta group or if there is a version 6 in the works so what's the word humming birds?

[Dwight Arthur]

Hi, Joel.

Where will this app obtain access to my tasks? The most logical. and easiest to program, would be to simply take the data from the cloud sync file.But that would be a problem for me. I already consider the security of the cloud sync file to be an area for concern. If any miscreant who has an app and can guess or steal my password can retrieve all my tasks I would consider MLO cloud sync to be profoundly insecure. That would be a shame because I really like MLO cloud sync.

-Dwight

On 10/20/2021 13:12, Joel wrote:

I could go into the reasons why I want it but mainly just want to know if there's a web version of MLO in the works? I've applied a few times to rejoin the beta group but have heard nothing from Andrey so it makes me wonder if there still is a beta group or if there is a version 6 in the works so what's the word humming birds?

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[Joel]

Andrey could still keep MLO for desktop for those who are paranoid about that. I'm just asking for an online version for those who aren't.

[Dwight Arthur]

You may have missed my point. If I use MLO/desktop AND I use cloud sync, and you use MLO/webwhich is attached to the cloud file, then my data will be insecure even if I myself never use MLO/web.

If you want me to explain this, write to me at mlod...@gmail.com

-Dwight

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[Joel]

He'd have to have two separate systems then. Keep what there is now for those who want it and have the web version for those who want it.

 All I know is there was a web version of MLO, if it were possible, that is, it would do well because other former (or maybe current?) users of MLO are in the forums for other apps like TickTick and ClickUp making requests for features that MLO already has. It's only a matter of time until what Andrey is offering is easily found online. Regardless, I've got to move to something else that doesn't keep me restricted to the desktop or key fob because I use the calendar sync and the mobile apps don't have it. 

[imajeff]

Do you realize how old MyLifeOrganized still is, I'm sure it's based on MFC, using Windows 98 technology wherever possible. It would not be like them to create a whole new cloud-based application, but if they did, you would be paying by the month not for installation license so it is a whole new ballpark if they tried that. I would be very surprised, as it has been so awkward just getting to where they could syncronize data via the cloud.

I'd like to hear what Andre thinks these days about making a whole new codebase for that, because more than a decade ago I could see why he didn't finish the Linux version either, and later gets a lot of flak for not haveing one also for Apple OS.

[Laurence Glazier]

I would certainly like this, and for the view designs to likewise be common to all devices. Everything drawn from the web. When MLO started, there was no such thing as a webapp. I am a paid-up supporter of MLO on Apple, Windows and Android, but would prefer an equivalent monthly sub together with a webapp. But I also like knowing I can keep the app versions I have paid for forever!

[Dwight Arthur]

Let me try to explain the security issue and why the expensive and burdensome task or maintaining separate code bases would do nothing to solve this.

If a web app is going to work with your tasks, it needs read/write access to some database where your tasks are kept. The obvious choice would be the cloud synch database. But exposing your tasks to an internet app also exposes everyone else's tasks to the internet. You may not care if a hacker has access to your task list but there are some users who would object. It makes no difference whether you are I are on the same code base, if your app has access to the cloud synch database then my tasks are at the same risk as yours. The way to manage this risk would be to incorporate security enhancements into the cloud synch database. For example, encrypting the data in the cloud sync database. This way, you would have the freedom to unlock your own tasks to your web app plus any attackers from the Internet who take an interest, while I would be able to leave my tasks secured.

-Dwight

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[imajeff]

The more explanation I read from Dwight, the more questions I come up with.

"exposing your tasks to an internet app also exposes everyone else's tasks to the internet"

Why? Assuming that is obviously making a ton of assumptions not being said here. I have talked a lot about the risk of someone gaining access, which is very different than saing, "bam now it is exposed to the Internet"... I also cannot tell what you mean by "exposed to the internet". Web pages are exposed because there's usually no password so anyone can "http GET" it. Email messages are exposed because clear text gets stored and forwarded on other computers than myself and the person I communicated, and even originally used a cleartext protocol (smtp, pop3), but there's no reasonable assumption that a direct communication from my computer to a server with https is exposed. HTTPS literally means it is encrypted over Internet, so only myself and that server application gets the data. So not exposed to the Internet, a hacker would have to access one of those endpoints. I will add, you don't need to be a hacker to get what is exposed to entire Internet, for example if the world discovered that http://32.56.746.2 exposed some web cam that is unprotected.

Different code base costs a lot. I don't get what you assume when you said, "makes no difference whether you are I are on the same code base, if your app has access to the cloud synch database then my tasks are at the same risk"

OP wants different code base so you don't have to send your data to the cloud. Doesn't make sense to dispute, unless "code base" means very different to you than it does to us (developers). If I make an app called "giveoutmydata" and has nothing to do with MLO, that is a different code base than your app called "MyLifeOrganized". Obviously no matter how insecure my app, cannot possibly make your app send your tasks to the cloud. Could it be that you think syncing to Cloud would be forced if MyLifeOrganized for Desktop that we both use is to support a web app? But why because there is already an option to sync to Cloud or not (which I leave off and of course don't pay extra so I simply could not use a web app)

Please do clarify at least these two vague statements you make:

• Why assume the cloud is already compromised by hackers when there would obviously be credentials required to get to my task list, do you know something about the implementation you're not saying?
• Why assume you have no option to not Cloud sync just because another user has the option? Is there not already the option

[Laurence Glazier]

Encryption of the database itself would be an additional level of security, but the truth is, as we see from data leaks and compromised passwords, that are regularly in the news, so far there is no truly secure way of running the internet and webapps.

But webapps which reflect the current data, working with device apps which have much shared design and code, are also an attractive option, and I use some alongside MLO.

Obviously the user decides, with any app, whether some data is best kept offline for personal security.

Laurence

[Dwight Arthur]

Hi, all. I'm going to reply to imajeff off of the Google group as I am not interested in posting a recipe for breaking MLO where people I don't know could read it

-Dwight

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[imajeff]

Just keep in mind a few things:

• The leaks and compromized passwords are not happening all over because they were "web apps". They happen the same whether it is web app, other type of server, and home computers.
• One of the most talked about ways these days is social engineering (you were tricked into doing something)
• Frankly, your own computer and everything on it's drives is not protected if you (1) have any amount of access to the Internet on your computer, (2) run any software not written by yourself because who can you trust, (3) your own software had a flaw that someone was able to exploit.
• Those common holes in your local security are not even about whether your password was easy to guess for a hacker that can try passwords more than a million guesses per second.
• For the infamous "wannacry" attacks, it was strictly the OS itself (like Windows XP with all updated security patches installed) which the users could not trust. The only way was to pull the plug on the Internet to be sure you were save from bad stuff being ran on your computer by hackers.

So yeah there is a choice not to put our own data on the cloud for now, but we need to understand a lot more than that to protect ourselves these days.

[Thomas Girard]

MLO is powerfull because this is a software... and not an APP in a browser. I have tested CHECKVIST and Dynalist during 1 year, which are the most advanced Wep outliner son the market and guess what... I'm moving back to MLO on Desktop and my productivity is finaly as high as it should be.

[KC Yang]

A webapp version could be helpful for project collaboration by multiple users while personal important GTD can still place in MLO app, just my 2 cents.

[Thomas Girard]

mmmm.. I think MLO is a personal outliner. not a team Project management tool. For project management you need something else. Like ASANA, Openproject or something else.

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[KC Yang (KC)]

I think there is a fine line between what MLO can do. Just my 2 cents.

Thomas Girard 在 2022年1月3日 星期一下午5:59:42 [UTC+8] 的信中寫道：

[imajeff]

Wow KC I don't think that assumption is worth 2 cents to anyone actually trying to manage team projects if they were properly trained to use commercial solutions. Still, that debate is quite off-topic from the question here.

I agree it would help a lot to have capability for at least my family to use a web app version so we could all see the same tasks wherever we are. I just don't think the MLO code was written so far in a way that would make the web app possible. In other words, pretty much a total recreation online, would have to have clear technical documentation on how every feature has to work so that it could be compatible.

[SRhyse]

If you used MLO to manage a team online, I imagine it’d turn into micromanaging.