Cloud sync limits

[Steven Barnett]

I seem to have hit a limit on the number of projects I can sync to the cloud sync service. It has limited me to 10. I tend to do a lot of small projects, so have a lot of separate outlines to sync at the same time. Now I’m stuck on the 11th because I cannot sync it.

I contacted support, but got no response. Does anyone here know how I might get round this limit please? I don’t want to start merging projects as that won’t make much sense organisationally.

Thanks

[dti...@gmail.com]

I've never run into this.  I just did a quick count and have a little under 40 active projects.  

[Steven Barnett]

I had a response today. Apparently there is a limit of 10 and, if you need more, they have to update it manually. I will have to contact them whenever I renew my cloud sync because it will revert to 10 each time I renew. Bit of a pain, but at least they acknowledge the problem nd, who knows, they my fix it before I renew.

[Andrey Tkachuk (MLO)]

Hi Steve,

>I seem to have hit a limit on the number of projects I can sync to the cloud sync service

Yes, by default there is a limit of 10 cloud files (not MLO projects) that a user can synchronize with one account.

>Bit of a pain, but at least they acknowledge the problem nd, who knows, they my fix it before I renew.

This is more of a limitation than a problem. Since we pay Amazon Web Services for each request to the MLO cloud, we had to set a limit to prevent abuse of the system and control the workload.
The limit we set is satisfactory for almost all of our users. In addition, we can increase the limit manually for some users who request it.
In the future, we will consider how to optimize this behavior for users requiring more resources while keeping the load manageable. 

Thanks,

Andrey. 

[Steven Barnett]

I get it. So much of software is compromises and you set a limit. I appreciate that and fully understand your reasoning. From my side, having spent the last 45 years writing software and managing projects (simple and scarily complex) I’ve developed the habit of separating projects. 

I love using MLO for managing the projects I am involved in now I’m retired but old habits die hard and splitting projects that are not logically connected is second nature. I could merge some of my projects and reduce the file count but that would make them less manageable. 

MLO does everything I want of it. It’s an excellent tool. I do my thinking on the iPad, sync to the Mac when doing Mac development and sync to Windows for everything else and for printing. It’s a great workflow.

My previous tool (CarbonFin Outliner) was a good tool and solved the problem by letting me sync to OneDrive. Sadly, it has no Mac app and the iPad app won’t run on the M2 Mac. I wrote my own tool for Windows. Syncing to OneDrive was its major advantage. MLO beats it hands down in every other way.

Maybe I need a different project management package. I doubt that would work for me as MLO doesn’t over complicate things the way full project management tools do. 

Maybe you could take a tiered approach to cloud. I’d happily pay a little extra for the extra files.

Steve Barnett

st...@sabarnett.co.uk

On 4 Aug 2023, at 19:13, Andrey Tkachuk (MLO) <mlo.andr...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Steve,

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[imajeff]

Steve could you enlighten me on what is less managable? I simply put unrelated tasks in separate folders. The only reason I have two actual files is because one is for my employer and the other is personal, on my devices at home.

If I was working with a file for each client say in my contract work and it was necessary to keep each database separate, then mybe it would be worth charging enough to pay a separate license for each client.

Then again, Andre did say you could arrange to have more than 10 for some special case, so I'm happy to see that's possible.

[Dwight]

Steve, I am with Jeff in not yet understanding the issue.

You could keep each of your projects separate, with it's own beginning, tasks, and end, storing all of these projects (simple to scary complex) in a single MLO database. You could zoom in to each project when you're working on it, and it would be the only thing you see until you zoom back out. The backup problems will go away. Now, you do not find that this solution works as well for you as keeping each project in its own database. Could you please explain what is it, that you can do with each projects in its own database, that helps you out as opposed to all of them in a single database.

[Steven Barnett]

I don’t charge my clients. I’m retired and do this for the fun and to keep my brain active, so separate licences isn’t an option.

There are definitely opportunities where I could merge files. My flight log v1 is ‘finished’ so I use that file for managing bugs.  My v2 is nearing the end of development so has a couple of features I need to finish. My v3 is in requirements gathering so is pretty dynamic and gets exposed regularly to the client I am developing it with. I could put these in a single file but that risks exposing my bug list and my development list to a client who doesn’t need to know. Especially if I decide to move some of the functionality from v2 to v3. It does not pay to set expectations that you cannot achieve.

While developing v2 I also developed an XCFramework for a PDF generator. That’s a generic library that is not specific to the flight log and that will be used in other apps. I put that into a separate file so I could focus on it without the distraction of the outstanding v2 and v3 work.

While developing that, I also decided there were activities that I only did occasionally and that took too long. I wanted a tool for the Mac that could help me with these things, so I put that into a separate file because it’s an internal tool and for the Mac rather than a client tool for iOS. 

Having them in separate files allows me to narrow my focus to the task in hand. When you’re juggling a number of projects, focus is your best friend. Yes, I could put all of these into one file and have the top most level be the logical separation, but that makes it too easy to update the wrong project and to expose information I do not want to share with a client.

It is absolutely vital that client facing information is kept separate from anything internal.

The ‘one file’ concept may work for you and others. It doesn’t work for me. Extrapolating, I only need one Word document. Word supports sections in a document so every separate document could be a section in one file. I can edit one section at a time and can print a page range, so why would I want to create separate documents? It’s even better to have one document because I could ensure the same styles for everything I produce. Same argument for Excel as it has thousands of cells and multiple tabs. I could have one tab per project. Why would I want separate files. Apart from organisation, of course. Mind you, if I only had one Word and one Excel document their organisation would be easy.

Pushing to extremes, I could have one SQL database and use schemas to separate dev, Q&A, uat and prod tables. It’s possible. What could possibly go wrong? 

Maybe I’m not using MLO correctly. I’m using it as a brain storming tool to flesh out a new release of a product or web site and then as a project management tool to deliver the new release. I’ve always designed and developed a new release starting with a new project. No professional project manager would go with a single project file for all releases, past and future. 

I could bang on for hours on the advantage of separate files. I suspect every argument I make could be refuted in favour of a single file. My past experience had led to separate files. Yours has led to a single file. That’s the nice thing about being human; we’re not all the same.

Maybe you’re right. Maybe I should look for another tool. MLO have given me 30 files for now and that’s plenty for what I am doing. 

I suppose I could go back to Dynalist which gives me unlimited files for free. I prefer MLO though. I could go back to CarbonFin Outliner, but that’s iPad only and I had to write my own Windows application to read the files (I’m not yet competent enough to write a Mac client - but I’m getting there). I prefer MLO though as I can run Windows, iOS and Mac.

I’ve written software in the past where I had a clear definition of how it was to be used and what could be achieved with it. Then customers got hold of it and did amazing things I had never contemplated. That’s the joy of writing software. Quite often I thought to myself that users were using it wrong… that’s not what I intended. But the fact that they could use it how they wanted to use it and not how I prescribed it should be used was so satisfying. MLO have done the same. They let me use it how I want to use it and, when I came up against an arbitrary limitation, they fixed the limit. All credit to them.

Steve Barnett

On 5 Aug 2023, at 23:23, imajeff <ima...@gmail.com> wrote:

Steve could you enlighten me on what is less managable? I simply put unrelated tasks in separate folders. The only reason I have two actual files is because one is for my employer and the other is personal, on my devices at home.

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[Dwight]

Steve, are you saying that you share your task lists with your clients? If so then I totally get the need for segmentation, and I would say that your 30-file limit on MLO is a very appropriate deal for you,
-Dwîght

[Steve Barnett]

I brainstorm with the clients. As a rule they tell me what to write. It’s then my job to guide them to a solution that fills their needs and enhances the product for everyone else. That is best done in an interactive session where we use a tool like MLO to capture the requirement.

Sent by Steve

On 6 Aug 2023, at 21:25, Dwight <mlod...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[A. W.]

@steve, 

wouldnt it be easier to:

- ideate solutions with mural.co - e.g.

- let MLO to the job just for you in one file for all clients

- - with a archiving concept that then lead to two MLO files and many mural.co-canvases

==> simpler and more effective overall handling by purpose built tools? :)

[Steven Barnett]

I guess I’m no different to anyone else. I have developed a way of working that works for me and that I am comfortable with. MLO helps me achieve what I want to and does it very well. I see no need to change for the sake of change or to fit in with an artificial constraint. Especially as MLO have the will to remove the constraint – not all companies are willing to do that, so credit to MLO.

 

Looking at mural.co, it appears to be more of a drawing/whiteboard tool. That’s great for designing a UI but I find the structured style of an outliner easier for clients to expand their thoughts. A client will typically come with a request “I want the software to do X and this is how you do that”. Their thinking is limited to the feature they want and they have decided how your software is going to achieve it. That gives me a starting point of “I want X” – the how is nothing to do with them; that’s my problem.

 

Once I have a requirement of “X”, I can map out the consequences of delivering it, so we’re all clear on what it is exactly they have asked for (most clients typically have a very narrow view of change requests). I can also map out potential extensions that make “X” more productive (which also lets me make it more generic and less focussed on a specific client need). I can explain why “X” is good but why “Y” might be better and more flexible. That can’t be done effectively in diagramming tools (well, not by me).

 

I’ve found in the past that clients get a clearer understanding when they can see the cause/effect in a hierarchical form. It also prompts more in-depth thinking. I’ve lost track of the number of times I have presented a potential extension to a client idea and they have run with it and expanded out their thinking to a more comprehensive change. It’s a game – not to deliver precisely what they asked for but to try and tease out that additional functionality that you know they’re going to come back for. It makes for a happier client and that’s what we’re all after at the end of the day (isn’t it?). MLO does an excellent job of that.

 

Regards a single file, yes, I could package all of this up into a single file. I’m sure the 99% of MLO users who do not reach the limitation are managing perfectly well with one or two files. That just doesn’t work for me. I’ve always introduced separation into my projects, mainly because of the focus it gives me. If, at some stage, MLO decides the limit is 10 and strictly 10, then I’ll move to another tool. Dynalist gives me enough functionality and the cross platform abilities I need and does not limit me. It also does not charge me. I prefer to pay for MLO because it’s a better tool.

 

Steve

Hi Steve,

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[imajeff]

For me it's a big deal that MLO is designed for exactly what you said you need: to focus on the one thing you should be focused on. That means you should have your entire life in ONE file, yet projects can be focused on when it's time to focus on that one. For example if my project is in a subfolder I can zoom as someone mentioned and I only see that one set of tasks and subtasks, as if it is the ONLY set of tasks in the file, even though it's not.

[imajeff]

Anyone been reading my replies, I want to clarify why I wrote about MLO being great for switching focus when my life is all in one file... not trying to convince you of anything but just saying the problem isn't really about focus if you need separate files. Steve did write eventually that the point is about isolating different branches, for the purpose of giving each to a separate entity.

So I agree you could only do that with MLO by separate files unless they made this possible.

Yeah, I'd need it too if I was doing more than 3 but I couldn't handle more clients.

Makes sense when I saw what their limit is, and I've thought of the following ideas which I hope they would consider:

• I'd really like to see MyLifeOrganized offer ways to isolate branches without needing different files (because some things I would want to do in common to all).
• Even if I don't need each separated branch to cloud-sync, I'd like the ability to quickly export some of my tree to a separate file which can be opened by somebody, perhaps even with a free trial of MLO.
• With cloud sync it would be nice to set up another sync that only syncs specific branch(es) of my one file. I picture like the chroot command in Linux.
• I'd like ability to set profiles in one MLO file where it's more like multiple installations where each accesses limited parts of the whole tree but can control environment for each, like contexts, views, etc.

Well it's probably too much to expect from the current way MLO is designed but that's why I wanted it designed from the ground up to support API and scripting so that we could add features we know how, then can share with other MLO users like a modern community.

Thanks Steve I'm glad you brought up the issue so we could at least discuss it.