Matt Mullenweg Identifies GoDaddy as a “Parasitic Company” and an “Existential Threat to WordPress’ Future”

[Toby Cryns]

https://wptavern.com/matt-mullenweg-identifies-godaddy-as-a-parasitic-company-and-an-existential-threat-to-wordpress-future

What do you think?

Toby

Toby Cryns The Mighty Mo! | (612) 293-8629 Minneapolis, MN TheMightyMo.com

[Toby]

Related: Matt Mullenweg also disparaged WP Engine for its lack of contributions to wp.org saying, "Automattic contributes 3,786 hours per week, while WP Engine contributes just 47."

[Marcus Genzlinger]

I believe it's debatable both way.  Automattic has raised a total of $985.9 million in funding over 12 rounds going back to 2021 which resulted in a $7.5 billion valuation. Key investors include Polaris Partners, BlackRock, Salesforce Ventures, Insight Partners, Tiger Global Management, and Alta Park Capital. They ar

The bigger question to me as a user of WordPress is do I like the direction?  Right now I do, but with more AI being baked in and other solutions time will tell. Client's need solutions that keep up with the changing ways people consume information. 

[Ryan Ripley]

Seems like some ultra-rich people with a personal beef, but I don't like the instability that it introduces to the WordPress community. I have a few small clients on WP Engine, and I use ACF/Local/WP Migrate on nearly every project. We don't need the drama.

The complaint about WP Engine not contributing back to core seems like a smoke screen. Automattic has sent WP Engine a cease and desist letter for "unauthorized usage of the WordPress and WooCommerce trademarks." The letter hints that WP Engine should have been paying Automattic 8% of their total revenue for WordPress trademark licensing fees--that's what this seems to be about. Automattic wants its pound of flesh from the biggest players making money off of WordPress.

But...If Matt doesn't want people using the words "WordPress" or "WooCommerce" to sell products or services, how are any of us going to market our web dev businesses?

[David Skarjune]

Benevolent Dictator & Automattic CEO Mullenweg has pursued a “scorched earth nuclear approach” (his words) to managing the WordPress ecosystem for his own financial benefit and sense of power. Why attack high-level entities like WP Engine, while endorsing crap companies like Blue Host? It's all about commercial competition. Recently, the fake WordPress Foundation registered trademarks for “Managed WordPress” and “Hosted WordPress.”

HUH? If WordPress.com wants to fight WP Engine & GoDaddy over "Managed WordPress," he should do that AND resign from the fake Foundation AND hand off the keys to actual Open Source practitioners.

JMF'ingO, 

—Skarjune

[Ryan Ripley]

This situation escalated quickly. Wordpress.org has banned WP Engine from its servers, so WP Engine users are currently unable to update/install themes or plugins through the admin dashboard. Just logged into one of my WP Engine client sites and confirmed this. What a mess.

[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

Omg was just about to post this link too. 

😧😳

Mom, Dad, stop fighting!!

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[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

https://wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Cease-and-Desist-Letter-to-Automattic-and-Request-to-Preserve-Documents-Sent.pdf

[Howie Burke]

There's a mega thread over on Reddit, concerning the WordPress/WP Engine debacle, and Mullenweg is getting justifiably pummeled by the community. I agree with Skarjune. It's far past the time for Mullenweg to step away from running the open source project when he is also CEO of Automattic and a direct competitor to many WordPress-based commercial entities. This week is the first time I've felt like WordPress has peaked, and potentially with a sharp slide ahead.

The good news (I guess) is that when Fonzie jumped the shark, Happy Days still ran for another 6 seasons. But by the end it was all about Chachi. It would be quite a shame if WordPress is entering its Chachi era.

This take is one of the better ones I've seen so far...
https://journal.rmccue.io/431/wp-engine-must-win/

and that thread, if you do the Reddit thing...

https://www.reddit.com/r/Wordpress/comments/1fpst5p/wpengine_matt_automattic_wordpressorg_megathread/

On Wednesday, September 25, 2024 at 10:45:42 PM UTC-5 barbara schendel wrote:

https://wpengine.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/09/Cease-and-Desist-Letter-to-Automattic-and-Request-to-Preserve-Documents-Sent.pdf

[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

Thanks for that thread Howie.... that Chachi comment: you are too funny.

I agree. He has come to view himself as the Musk of the WP world throwing tantrums and breaking shit over petty grievances, except way worse because we and all of our clients are all vulnerable to be collateral damage in his war! He needs to go. 

Does the foundation have the authority to do something about him?

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[Ryan Ripley]

From what I've been able to glean from the Reddit thread and other articles about WordPress governance, Matt seems to have nearly full control over the WordPress Foundation. Matt is a board member, along with only two others: Mark Ghosh (a WordPress blogger who hasn't been active for over 10 years), and Chele Chiavacci Farley (who has a background in finance). An effort to clarify and reform WordPress governance was started a few years ago, but fizzled out (https://wpgovernance.com).

Matt owns the wordpress.org domain and controls its hosting, so it seems like banning WP Engine from the wordpress.org servers was a unilateral decision. 

The WordPress Foundation holds the trademark for the WordPress name and logo, but Automattic controls the commercial licensing of the trademark--that's why Newfold Digital (Bluehost, HostGator, Yoast) pays Automattic for the use of the WordPress trademark. Matt wanted WP Engine to start doing the same, to the tune of 8% of their annual revenue, and when they refused, Matt went to war. 

So Matt is benevolent dictator for life, and he'll have dual loyalty to the non-profit and for-profit sides of WordPress unless he himself decides to hand over some power.  

Please correct me if any of this seems incorrect... There is surprisingly little transparency about how the foundation operates and trademark decisions are made. Here's where I got this info: 

https://www.pluginvulnerabilities.com/2024/09/24/who-is-on-the-wordpress-foundation-board/

https://wordpressfoundation.org/trademark-policy/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Wordpress/s/qVvM2JfT6x

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[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

Ryan thank you for this explanation! Super helpful!

So yeah... Very concerning to think that we have all hinged our livelihoods more or less onto the whims of one person.

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[Jodi Stammer]

There was an interview with Matt yesterday that you might find interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6F0PgMcKWM

 

Best comment:
“I have a feeling that missed call was his lawyer trying to tell him to GTFO this stream.”

 

 

Jodi Stammer
Graphic & Web Designer
Uncorked Design LLC

jodi.s...@comcast.net
763-954-0820
 

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[David A]

Hi, I am late to the party, but I watched the interview, and Matt seems to have good points and I get what he is trying to convey, and event agree with him.  But there is something about his awnser in the interview that it did not seem sincere.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mpls-stpaul-wordpress/05d201db111b%2462f98330%2428ec8990%24%40gmail.com.

[Toby C]

Skarjune!  Well said.  

Good points or no, Matt seems to have lost the plot of what it means to run a community-centric project.  His behavior indicates that he has a mounting gambling debt that he needs to pay off TOMORROW or else!  nyuk nuyk.

Toby

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"You take a chance getting up every morning, crossing the street, or sticking your face in a fan.” - Officer Frank Drebin

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[Toby C]

Interesting take from Ryan McCue's blog.  He thinks ALL WordPress developers, plugin developers, hosting providers, etc. are risk of being sued by Automattic if they win this lawsuit:

Across these conversations, there is a clear letter of intent from Matt, Automattic, and the WordPress Foundation: if you use the term “WordPress” commercially in any way, Automattic may dictate the terms under which you may use it.

If Automattic were to win this legal argument, this would mean it is no longer possible for “WordPress agencies” to use the term, nor for hosts to offer “WordPress hosting”, nor for “WordPress plugins” to be commercially available. These would, under their argument, not be fair use, but rather an attempt to pass off your products as officially sanctioned by the WordPress Foundation and Automattic. 

 

The only way any of these businesses would be able to operate is under the terms that Automattic chooses – in WP Engine’s case, that was 8% of their revenue. Any company could be subject to a shakedown for an arbitrary amount, or face ruinous legal action and intimidation in the public space. 

 

If Automattic had the right to dictate any use of the trademark, this would be a severe net-negative for the WordPress project, the WordPress Foundation, and for open source projects in general. It would severely encumber any company merely seeking to describe the products and services they offer. 

 

It would also have a chilling effect upon any commercial activity using WordPress, as any business could be targeted by Automattic for licensing fees, even those using the trademark descriptively, fairly, and in good faith.

Toby

 

[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

I saw that too, which is why it will (hopefully?) go to court, since the type of use described below, to describe one's services, is 100% within the fair use of the term "WordPress". (plus the letters "WP" have no protection/limitation whatsoever.)

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[Toby C]

In case anyone is curious, I've been compiling a lot of the public conversations around this Matt Mullenweg vs Lee Wittlinger billionaire ego battle (e.g. Automattic vs WP Engine) here: https://tobycryns.com/matt-mullenweg-vs-wp-engine-how-not-to-run-a-community-based-project/

Let me know if you find an additional resource that belongs on that page.

Toby

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"You take a chance getting up every morning, crossing the street, or sticking your face in a fan.” - Officer Frank Drebin

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[Eric Schmid]

A 'positive' that could come of this is WPEngine would start to allow for the Revisions (something that Matt M. railed on in a recent post)...... my biggest complaint of WPEngine is the inability to use Revisions.

I am completely confused about the complaint about trademark infringement. Just about every hosting company out there has some kind of "WordPress" hosting option/package using the word "WordPress" in their name of product/marketing/invoicing, etc. Not sure why he singled out WPEngine. It made me think that there is going to be some kind of lawyerly attempt at trademarking of WordPress to not allow any other company/organization to use that specific word in anything that they offer as a good or service.

On Tuesday, September 24, 2024 at 11:25:26 AM UTC-5 Marcus Genzlinger wrote:

[Patrick Lewis]

I'm not a lawyer, but...The WordPress foundation may have weakened its trademark claim by not consistently and constantly enforcing it. It is a registered trademark, and most likely not subject to abandonment. However, the WordPress Foundation would be unwise to pick and choose who to go after. This seems to be the case with issuing a cease and desist order to WP Engine, but not many other potential infringements.  At the very least, it could restrict any sort of monetary judgement.

[Nick Cernak]

Theo (t3.gg) sat down with Matt for an interview to talk about the WordPress vs WP Engine drama.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUJgahHjAKU

[Jodi Stammer]

Good info, Toby – thanks for putting it together and sharing.

 

I don’t necessarily think it’s fair to say, “He seems to believe that he deserves to be rewarded financially for his role in the WordPress community.”

 

He wants the foundation to get a piece of the WPE pie (time or money).

 

Going to watch the 2-hour interview next. Oof!

 

Jodi

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[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

Well that would make sense if WPE had more pie, but it seems to me he already gets the largest piece of the WP pie all on his own with automattic and woocommerce. Automattic is worth 7.5B where WPE is ("only") worth 1B. 

Plus the foundation is supposed to be a nonprofit, so it doesn't make sense for it to be getting rich too. Even if it did, he makes up 1/3 of the board and makes so much that I don't see why he doesn't just give it more $ himself if he wants it to have more. 

I don't know, it just seems to me that his tiny ego wants ALL the pie and he does not care how he hurts actual community members (all of WP engine and flywheels users) in order to get it.

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[Courtney Remeš]

One thing came out at 1:07: Matt feels that WP Engine led him along and is embarrassed. He made what he thought were clear overtures to them and he thought they were going to make a deal with him. He doesn't say what the deal was or why it felt through last week. But he is now lashing out.

Just seeing how he communicates here and the level of his nuanced perspective he expects people to see and understand, it seems like maybe this is the result of unclear communications, assumptions, and wounded ego.  

And it's too bad, because as Theo the interviewer notes, there might have been ways to reach his goal (more WPE contributions) if he had handled things differently. 

- Courtney

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[Jodi Stammer]

My understanding (which could very well be incorrect) is that the WordPress trademark is not to be used. Maybe they don’t go after the little guys (but I have heard of some cease and desist – especially if you’re using it in a domain name). The bigger guys are supposedly paying a license fee to use it. I don’t think there is transparency as to who or how much, but Matt is pissed that WPE won’t give a piece of their pie, yet profits off using the name (and as Matt claims, confusing customers into thinking WPE IS WordPress).

On that front, I agree with him (but not how he’s gone about it). If others have to pay a license fee, why shouldn’t / won’t WPE pay it as well?

 

Jodi

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[Nick Ciske]

https://techcrunch.com/2024/10/04/159-employees-are-leaving-automattic-as-ceos-fight-with-wp-engine-escalates/

Well this isn’t going well. Is this the moment that we see a sustainable fork emerge?

_________________________

Nick Ciske

CTO/CISO | LuminFire

nick....@luminfire.com

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[Courtney Remeš]

Jodi,

In the Theo video ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUJgahHjAKU) that Nick Cernak shared, at one point I think Theo summarizes Matt's beefs with WP Engine as follows:

1) Some people* think WP Engine and WordPress are the same thing.

• *I am curious about which people these are. I would think the target audience of WP Engine is WordPress devs / designers, who likely are not confused by the distinction between a host and a platform.

2) WP Engine isn't paying to license the WordPress/Automattic trademark.

• In the video he admits no one else is paying 8% of their revenue, it's just a number he picked for WP Engine and might increase it based on how they treat him.

3) WP Engine isn't contributing enough to WordPress in ways Matt values

Matt says at one point that he's okay with issue #1 (market confusion) if businesses are paying for licensing. And we all know that many businesses have for many years used "WordPress" or "WP" as ways to describe their services (issue #2), so it doesn't truly seem to be a trademark concern. Theo also read a previous quote from Matt in which Matt admits he is going after WP Engine via the trademark law as a way to enforce what he considers WP Engine's moral failing to contribute to WP to a certain standard -- which WP Engine is not legally bound to meet. 

So it seems really about #3, contribution to WordPress financially or in specific ways. WP Engine does participate in the overall WordPress "ecosystem", but Matt categorizes their efforts as furthering their bottom line -- and he wants their intentions to be altruistic. 

I agree; I wish Matt had gone about all of this differently. Maybe WP Engine should be paying something, I don't know. It seems like Matt was trying to make this happen indirectly and made what he thought were clear overtures to WP Engine (but very possibly were not), but when they didn't follow through, he felt embarrassed and got mad. 

- Courtney

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[Toby C]

 he felt embarrassed and got mad. 

I like to think this is the explanation for Matt Mullenweg's behavior.  (Lord knows I've made a complete @%% out of myself at times when I've been angry/embarrassed.) If it is this, I wish he'd just admit, stop doing the tough-guy thing, and get on with the healing!

Toby

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[Courtney Remeš]

 he felt embarrassed and got mad. 

I like to think this is the explanation for Matt Mullenweg's behavior.  (Lord knows I've made a complete @%% out of myself at times when I've been angry/embarrassed.) If it is this, I wish he'd just admit, stop doing the tough-guy thing, and get on with the healing!

Yes, it seems like the most logical explanation to me. And, yes, I also see (and empathize deeply) with this completely human aspect of the situation! I hope an opening for understanding / healing reveals itself sooner than later. 

- Courtney

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[Patrick Lewis]

I think this is a pretty good indication that Matt has a few more lessons to learn.

https://techcrunch.com/2024/10/04/159-employees-are-leaving-automattic-as-ceos-fight-with-wp-engine-escalates/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAAjtldOmXeBn7dT7qluhTsdasLkkH9WM4Mq6_iENy1yw5__yvIY7ERuUV7sd4m_RSOsVO1fbIrAs8zRLl0DSRfvrcmvNgPRp4GseK6XJmb5qt9Y44RcEBcj8VsS6yxVhvd2VizvA102houUIjDVpDLl53_2UkdxB0RN7YKLyFIr_ 

[Eric Celeste]

This is the new login at WordPress.org. I really think Matt, however good a point he may have about WP Engine’s lack of real contribution to the community, has gone too far.

All I know for sure is that I now feel queazy when I think about the future of WordPress. I did not realize how much we, as a community, were riding on the goodwill of a single person. This is a large load for anyone to bear and a terrible position for us to put anyone in. It certainly does not make for a healthy “community” when it is really at the whim of a single person.

I find myself wishing for a serious fork of WordPress under the control of a real non-profit with a proper board and clear management. WordPress deserves this. We need to build a stronger, more resilient community and carry this load together.

...Eric

Eric Celeste / e...@tenseg.net / 651-323-2009

[David Skarjune]

Like Eric, saw that new WordPress.Org login Loyalty Pledge today, along with reports of rampant blacklisting of Community members by Automattic across WP.org, X, Slack & other social media. The broad WordPress Community is way concerned about how far this has gone. BUT, hey it's been coming a long time...

Morten Rand-Hendriksen points out that he and others called for Governance and a Road Map a decade ago—the hint was ignored, Gutenberg project launched in 2018 with no Road Map nor broad community input, and here we are today in a Trillion $$$ corporate fight over Open Source Software.

Some WordPress Contributors, like myself, began exiting around 2018 after Automattic hatched a program of appointing staff and business partners as Make WordPress Team Leaders, who had not been members of those teams nor were the teams consulted about such changes. I had worked on Marketing and Training for a couple years along with my WordCamp Minneapolis Contributor work, but after confronting Automattic CEO Matt Mullenweg directly on Slack about Team changes to no avail, I realized my commitment was exhausted, seeing teamwork lost.

While semi-retired, I do a little WordPress work for local nonprofits and indie artists. My perspective goes back 20 years working with an array of Open Source Software. I remember the day in 2009 when Oracle announced its takeover acquisition of Sun Microsystems grabbing rights to both Java & MySQL. Sun was hosting our MySQL+PHP Meetup that night, the offices were vacated, my usual contact gone, but the office manager still provided Pizza at our last meeting there...

Though not so involved these days; today feels like the same ol' same ol'
Will WordCamps still have Pizza or Tacos???

—Skarjune

[Courtney Remeš]

Wow, this is so sad.

Some Reddit threads:

Changes to wordpress.org login/sign-up procedure

WordPress contributor banned for asking about new checkbox

Also, WP Engine posted about the checkbox: https://x.com/wpengine/status/1844078545603092691 

And WordPress.org replies... 

Sigh.

- Courtney

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[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

Here's the latest, for those of you watching from home.

Photomatt / WP.org has now forcibly taken control of the free ACF plugin from the repo, renamed it "secure custom fields" but kept the slug, install stats all of the ratings and reviews. (so, not a fork -- a takeover).

https://x.com/wp_acf/status/1845169499064107049?s=61&t=nyIJXN5ddRU3OniQa2HBQQ

Okay has this gone far enough yet?!

[Courtney Remeš]

Wow, again. I hate this. 

A few notable replies in that thread:

• ACF explains how to install and update going forward
• WordPress.org says "Best of luck with your version"
  
  
  

- Courtney

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[David Skarjune]

Matt Medeiros talks with the founder of Ghost, which migrated (not a fork) from WordPress over a decade ago.

A rational take on the state of #WPdrama with comparisons to Rails, Drupal, etc. and how Ghost sees the future of OSS Web.

The WP Minute

Rethinking Open Source w/ John O'Nolan of Ghost
https://thewpminute.com/rethinking-open-source-w-john-onolan-of-ghost/

--Skarjune

[Michael Helmke]

Fascinating and disappointing level of drama from Automattic. I've been looking at and thinking about ClassicPress for a few months. It's a pre-guttenberg fork of WordPress with supposedly an easy migration path.

Have not tried it at all yet and thinking about it since Automattic as a company has never really pleased me.

Anyone else know about ClassicPress?

-- Michael Helmke

[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

Yes I was looking at ClassicPress the other day (it appealed to me since I kind of hate gutenberg) 

Also looked at another fork, called Not Matt Press https://notmatt.press/

Name based on this eerily prescient quote from Matt: "If I woke up tomorrow, you know, someone hit my head and I became crazy or evil or something like that, WordPress would be fine.  Y'all could fork it. You know, like you could take all of the code, everything that's been created and make, you know, a NotMattPress, or whatever it is. If I were ever not a good leader, the software could fork."

(unsure of source of quote though)

I am uncomfortable with the idea of putting paying clients on a fork, though. Has anyone else ever used one? Are there any differences or incompatibilities?

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[David Skarjune]

Barbara,

There are and will be WP Forks, just as there are alternative repos popping up, but that kind of fragmentation won't help... Looks like the WP ecosystem is going to split up in ways we have yet to see. If I were to continue with WordPress, I'd bet on an Elementor hub, versus WP.com or WPengine or whoever.

I only maintain a small number of legacy WordPress sites and one tiny nonprofit, keeping them all in Classic mode without Gutenberg, though already had to deal with the ACF issue on one. So, I'm ready to leave WordPress behind.

Headless and Static seem the best directions to go. I already run a plain HTML/CSS/JS site through GitHub. I use Micro.blog and that employs Hugo. More to learn and do!

Anybody using headless WordPress?
Any good interim options that way?

Or, I've done Drupal to WordPress migrations...do I have to flip that around???

--Skarjune

[Eric Celeste]

Barbara, I hear you and also fear that the WP world will become much more fragmented in coming years.

I have started to explore Statamic, which has some surface similarities to classic WP (a client updating posts would probably not notice the difference), but under the covers is much more like Jekyl (which I have used in the past to build static websites). I think it may be a great balance, but the learning curve is steep for someone who has been focussed on WP for over 15 years. 

Some of the things I appreciate about Statamic: the equivalent of custom post types, custom fields, and much more is built in and much more cleanly implemented than in WP/ACF/Meta Box; the system can build a dynamic site based on flat files or a database, or it can build a static site; the documentation is good and the core is PHP (which at least I am familiar with); the licensing is clear (and not too expensive) and dev/test sites can use all pro features and add ons without cost.

Some things that are harder about Statamic: I have paid no attention to Laravel and Statamic rests on Laravel; much of the system depends on tooling that I usually don’t bother with (composer, etc.); there appears to be a widespread adoption of Tailwind CSS rather than the semantic CSS I usually encounter in the WP world.

I have built headless WP sites along the way (only one went into very limited production). I think I would rather get over the Statamic learning curve than try to bend WP in this way. 

...Eric

Eric Celeste / e...@tenseg.net / 651-323-2009

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mpls-stpaul-wordpress/f5d5163f-1343-421d-b225-5e17c8ad430dn%40googlegroups.com.

[Nick Cernak]

New piece published today in Inc.

Is Matt Mullenweg the Mad King of WordPress?

https://www.inc.com/dfreedman/matt-mullenweg-wordpress-wp-engine/90994969

[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

THIS!

https://joost.blog/wordpress-leadership/

[David Skarjune]

Happy Holidays all !
No WordPress.org to worry about—just go on break until they figure it out next year…or so—and enjoy Pineapple on your Pizza.

Former Contributor Morten Rand-Hendriksen updates his original WordPress Governance Project Proposal:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/after-wordpress-morten-rand-hendriksen-mkvgc/

On Friday, December 20, 2024 at 11:01:34 PM UTC-6 barbara schendel wrote:

THIS!

https://joost.blog/wordpress-leadership/

[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

The latest for anyone that has been keeping track: 

Matt is more or less taking his ball and going home.

Oh and I guess we are all now the so-called "Community" in scare quotes.

https://automattic.com/2025/01/09/aligning-automattics-sponsored-contributions-to-wordpress

[Toby C]

Ya know, there's a silver lining to all this:

• The WP project has been a commercially-run project for years - That fact is now laid bare. +1
• People are seeing the WP project for what it is and not for what they want it to be.  +1
• Some of Automattic's strange moves in recent years now make sense (e.g. Why did they create a public clone of the wp.org plugin repo?). +1
• It's an opportunity for our community to regroup and focus on our shared interests. +100

Those of us who are old enough remember the days before commercialism ran rampant in the WP project.  The days before "freemium" plugins.  The days before everything was run through the filter of, "How can this [thing] make me money?"  Those were fun days and had real energy!  Remember running the WP 5k around Lake Harriet?  Remember UnSummit?  How about WordUp?  (all local events with energy!)

Our original WP user group meetups had 2 concurrent tracks with at least 4 speakers per meetup - a testament to the excitement and curiosity that once existed in the grass-roots of our community!  WordPress used to be a rallying call - now it's just (mostly) commercial software lining our pockets.  

Our community needs to be about more than money and tech, because money and tech is not inspiring, not energizing.  Maybe we should think in terms other than "WordPress" for our own sakes, stop feeding the beast, and redesign our community accordingly.  Interested in conversing more about this idea + next steps?

Toby

Co-Founder of MSP WordPress User Group/Meetup

Founder of WP Wednesdays at CoCo

Co-Planner of MSP's first 2 WordCamps

Co-Founder of WordUp!

Webmaster of mspwp.com

Proud Papa of 6 FREE Plugins on WP.org (one of which won "Plugin of the Year" on pcmag.com)

Contributor to BuddyPress

Planner of BuddyCamp MSP

(Former) Writer at WPTavern.com (and therefore former contractor at Automattic)

Graduate of Richmond Grade School - Go Rams!

One Heck of a Model American.

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[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

Agreed. personally I am hoping to see more organizing perhaps around Joost's more democratic vision. (What we don't want is a whole bunch of different forks each with its own repo. That is why whatever happens next needs to be larger in scope and carefully planned)

[David A]

With all this going on,  are people thinking other alternatives?  If so, which? I only know of Drupal.

On Fri, Jan 10, 2025, 11:13 AM Barbara Schendel-Kent <etel...@gmail.com> wrote:

Agreed. personally I am hoping to see more organizing perhaps around Joost's more democratic vision. (What we don't want is a whole bunch of different forks each with its own repo. That is why whatever happens next needs to be larger in scope and carefully planned)

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[Eric Celeste]

We have been actively exploring Statamic and love it. We will be building our first client site with Statamic this winter. Our tenseg.net site is already running on Statamic. This post has many more details...

https://www.tenseg.net/blog/2024/12/07/getting-to-know-statamic

...Eric

Eric Celeste  /  651-323-2009  /  e...@tenseg.net

---- On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:19:09 -0600 David A <slp...@gmail.com> wrote ---

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mpls-stpaul-wordpress/CABmzz7jOSh2x7ONoHSD3r2-G%2ByiLNvsotrWMe8dW5_uty%2Bn8MQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Toby C]

I'm actually not thinking about a specific technology or a replacement for WP.  I'm also not thinking about a vision for the future of the global WP project (Joost is doing just fine at that).  

One thing that made WP great in the beginning is that Matt really was democratizing publishing through WP and inspired us to be better - he's lost that vision, and, frankly, so has the greater WP community (myself included!).  My eyes glaze over, and I get uninspired when thinking about consortiums and management of repos and such.  I do, however, get inspired when I focus more local and more human. I mean, what is the essence of this group? Where do we want to go from here?  What are the common threads that connect us besides the fact that we are WP users?

Toby

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mpls-stpaul-wordpress/194514a872a.112d66c56284668.5665579917954590567%40tenseg.net.

[David A]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the email.

I will take a look at Statamic in YouTube.   May I ask you what do you like about it?  I have never heard about it so I have no clue.

[David A]

Thank Toby,

I have not been following to close the WordPress drama: 'Matt all mighty", but It is kind of unnerving to think that he is playing with the livelihood of a lot of people out there.  You post a good questions at the end of your email.  

Thanks.

[Eric Celeste]

David, please read the post I wrote about Statamic and referred to earlier if you want to know what I like about it. I do not want to hijack this thread!  ...Eric

---- On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 13:39:33 -0600 David A <slp...@gmail.com> wrote ---

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the email.

I will take a look at Statamic in YouTube.   May I ask you what do you like about it?  I have never heard about it so I have no clue.

On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:37, Eric Celeste <e...@tenseg.net> wrote:

We have been actively exploring Statamic and love it. We will be building our first client site with Statamic this winter. Our tenseg.net site is already running on Statamic. This post has many more details...

https://www.tenseg.net/blog/2024/12/07/getting-to-know-statamic

...Eric

[David Skarjune]

Toby, Thanks for WordUp! Those were sure exciting & exciting days. 

Now that Automattic is tightening their grip on WordPress.org, plus WP IP assets, it's clear that the WordPress industry is set to fracture. WP.com is no cash cow, but needs to be, so PhotoMatt is desperate. As more restrictions occur on WP.org and/or more players move out to manage their own products, hopefully some clear roadmaps can occur--else how to chart a new CMS project plan for us Users?

With WordPress I'd bet on Elementor rather than Gutenberg for a stable platform, especially since they have their own hosting at competitive pricing. Who knows what WP stacks may emerge out of all this. 

Meanwhile, I got to move some legacy beasts out of WordPress and down to static HTML for safe keeping.

Then, there's all the Jamstack, SPA, Headless, even Hypermedia options to consider...

-Skarjune

WordPress Volunteer & Contributor 2013-2018

[Mike Witt]

I wonder, as long as this subject is getting some play here, does anyone know what options (if any) exist or are even plausible for those who run membership/community sites -- depending on plugins like memberpress, bbpress, buddypress and so on. I mean if WP actually "fractures" in some sense.

 

On 2025-01-11 01:34:20 PM, David Skarjune wrote:

> Toby, Thanks for WordUp! Those were sure exciting & exciting days.

>

> Now that Automattic is tightening their grip on WordPress.org, plus WP IP

> assets, it's clear that the WordPress industry is set to fracture. WP.com

> is no cash cow, but needs to be, so PhotoMatt is desperate. As more

> restrictions occur on WP.org and/or more players move out to manage their

> own products, hopefully some clear roadmaps can occur--else how to chart a

> new CMS project plan for us Users?

>

> With WordPress I'd bet on Elementor rather than Gutenberg for a stable

> platform, especially since they have their own hosting at competitive

> pricing. Who knows what WP stacks may emerge out of all this.

>

> Meanwhile, I got to move some legacy beasts out of WordPress and down to

> static HTML for safe keeping.

> Then, there's all the Jamstack, SPA, Headless, even Hypermedia options to

> consider...

>

> -Skarjune

> WordPress Volunteer & Contributor 2013-2018

>

>

>

> On Friday, January 10, 2025 at 2:34:52 PM UTC-6 Eric Celeste wrote:

>

> > David, please read the post

> > <https://www.tenseg.net/blog/2024/12/07/getting-to-know-statamic> I wrote

> > about Statamic and referred to earlier if you want to know what I like

> > about it. I do not want to hijack this thread!  ...Eric

> >

> > ---- On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 13:39:33 -0600 *David A <slp...@gmail.com>*

> > wrote ---

> >

> > Hi Eric,

> >

> > Thanks for the email.

> >

> > I will take a look at Statamic in YouTube.   May I ask you what do you

> > like about it?  I have never heard about it so I have no clue.

> >

> > On Jan 10, 2025, at 11:37, Eric Celeste <e...@tenseg.net> wrote:

> >

> > We have been actively exploring Statamic and love it. We will be building

> > our first client site with Statamic this winter. Our tenseg.net site is

> > already running on Statamic. This post has many more details...

> >

> > https://www.tenseg.net/blog/2024/12/07/getting-to-know-statamic

> >

> > ...Eric

> >

> >

> > ---- On Fri, 10 Jan 2025 11:19:09 -0600 *David A <slp...@gmail.com>* wrote

> > ---

> >

> > With all this going on,  are people thinking other alternatives?  If so,

> > which? I only know of Drupal.

> >

> >

>

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>

 

 

[Barbara Schendel-Kent]

Mike, I run a few membership sites and the membership info is safe in the database. As long as the plugin authors continue to support it then I don't think you'd need to change anything. But worst case scenario, you can move memberships between plugins or even platforms if you had to... it is not fun (particularly payment profiles) but it can be done.

David, you know, speaking of WordUp, if community sentiment about WP (and by extension, WordCamp) continues to degrade, maybe Toby and I could get "the band" back together and do another one -- we should keep it in mind for the future. (Then one of the sessions might be exploring other forks.) 

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mpls-stpaul-wordpress/3GIHNCVW.S3QFXBXI.WSHVZJC7%40PGV42SDO.ZMG7R5TC.4BRRWMRT.

[Patrick Lewis]

Amidst the turmoil of Matt vs. the World, some issues may have brought us all to where we are today.

* Websites are no longer cool. As Moss from "The IT Crowd" may have said, they are "yesterday's jam." There are plenty of cool websites, but the desire for one has waned recently.

* WordPress is no longer necessary or necessarily the best way to design a site. That WordPress runs 40% of websites doesn't mean 40% should run on WordPress. There are alternatives for shopping, blogging, and content creation. Also, the notion of a brochure or portfolio site has become popular again. Many have discovered that they don't want to put effort into updating their websites frequently.

* Social media presence means more to some than having a personal website. For example, check out YouTube channels and note how content creators promote themselves. Personal websites take a back seat to such things as Instagram, Patreon, Twitter(X), and SoundCloud.

WordPress was in a vulnerable spot before all of the #wordpressdrama. These latest developments may hasten its demise.

On Monday, September 23, 2024 at 2:22:25 PM UTC-5 to...@themightymo.com wrote:

https://wptavern.com/matt-mullenweg-identifies-godaddy-as-a-parasitic-company-and-an-existential-threat-to-wordpress-future

What do you think?

Toby

Toby Cryns The Mighty Mo! | (612) 293-8629 Minneapolis, MN TheMightyMo.com

[Toby C]

Good points, Pat!  Websites do seem to be less useful for small businesses than they used to be (many small businesses rely solely on social media these days).  And bloggers not promoting any specific agenda are an endangered species.  

Still, businesses that rely on SEO, SEM, and email marketing to generate leads are pretty much all on WP (and for good reason!).

Toby

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