Next Meeting - 32st March

[Duncan Roe]

Hi everyone,

The next meeting is 4 weeks from Monday.  I reset the attendance list

shortly after last meeting and have just updated https://mlug-au.org.

Here's the URL for the online meeting anyway:

https://meet.jit.si/mlug-au

We have yet to schedule any talks: does anyone have something they'd
like to share?

Do put your name on the attendance list (on the website) if you'd like
to have an in-person meeting again this month. We only need 4 names,
mine's there already,

Cheers ... Duncan

[Howard Joseph]

Um 32st of March? I'm assuming that's a typo, and I'll be there on the 31st of March!😁

I barely trust established sources of information. I have a hard time finding [Wikipedia], an encyclopedia that anyone can alter, to be a safe way to learn about anything except how many idiots think their opinions are a suitable substitute for facts.Randy K. Milholland, Something Positive, 10-31-2006

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[oldherl]

But now some people even use the output of LLM as their information source. Compared to LLM, Wikipedia is so reliable. At least Wikipedia is not based on the output of some stochastic processes.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mlug-au/CALSC1m1XVvLDjiw5kUJLdtAdHSGR2%2BRZn6ra5ssJzi%3Dz6fM_ZQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Andrew McGlashan]

Yep, listed on the website as the 31st .... but not 4 weeks, 5 this time, correct?

$ ncal -A 1 2 2025
    February 2025     March 2025       
Su     2  9 16 23        2  9 16 23 30
Mo     3 10 17 24        3 10 17 24 31
Tu     4 11 18 25        4 11 18 25  
We     5 12 19 26        5 12 19 26  
Th     6 13 20 27        6 13 20 27  
Fr     7 14 21 28        7 14 21 28  
Sa  1  8 15 22        1  8 15 22 29  

Cheers
A.

[Andrew McGlashan]

On 28/2/25 5:55 pm, Andrew McGlashan wrote:
> Yep, listed on the website as the 31st .... but not 4 weeks, 5 this time, correct?

Okay, I did it again; 4 weeks from Monday, 5 weeks from last meeting ;-)

[Michael Pope]

Talking of dates, when I was researching dates in a programming sense
there seemed to be a lot of alterations over time. Like the 10 days
which vanished in the year 1582. Oh what a party that must of been.

https://www.britannica.com/story/ten-days-that-vanished-the-switch-to-the-gregorian-calendar

"The most surreal part of implementing the new calendar came in October
1582, when 10 days were dropped from the calendar to bring the vernal
equinox from March 11 back to March 21."

from

Mick

[zak martell]

I deal with time zones all the time, as I write booking reservation software, and it’s a real pain. Gotta praise those that write programming language libraries. 

Great YouTube talk on it for you all - 

https://youtu.be/-5wpm-gesOY?si=22-2nDA-XmVcDyQ0 he talks about how insane timezones are. Countries constantly changing whether or not they have daylight savings time and when, countries deciding to add in extra time zones into their country, wars and takeovers causing other previous places to adopt new time zones. 

@michael, is Christmas on Dec 25 or Jan 7? 😂

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[Howard Joseph]

Zak, thanks for the youtube link, it was absolutely fascinating, and I have shared it with some friends and added it to my saved list!😁😁

I barely trust established sources of information. I have a hard time finding [Wikipedia], an encyclopedia that anyone can alter, to be a safe way to learn about anything except how many idiots think their opinions are a suitable substitute for facts.Randy K. Milholland, Something Positive, 10-31-2006

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mlug-au/CAOnx%3DxH5NHDZtJyNWQhHEt2TKKJd7EUatQh%2B%3D%2BkUXWp0guvAiQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Kevin Exton]

On 2/28/2025 9:47 PM, Michael Pope wrote:

"Talking of dates, when I was researching dates in a programming sense there seemed to be a lot of alterations over time. Like the 10 days which vanished in the year 1582. Oh what a party that must of been."

"Once in the chair of Saint Peter, Gregory XIII dedicated himself to reform of the Catholic Church ... He mandated that cardinals reside in their sees without exception, and designated a committee to update the Index of Forbidden Books. Gregory XIII was also the patron of a new and greatly improved edition of the Corpus juris canonici." -- Wikipedia

Pope Gregory certainly seems like he was the life of the party.

-- Kevin

[Malcolm Herbert]

... would a talk on how timezones work on Unix systems be of interest? their history, creating your own?

I could do an off the cuff workshop on that for hours ... which then makes me pause ... have I already done something like this? I know I've presented nominally the same ssh talk a bunch of times ...

Regards,
Malcolm

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[Malcolm Herbert]

Zak - interesting ... my path into having to deal with it was creating the prototype for 3RRRs ondemand system ... I thought the hard part would be capturing the MP3 stream and storing in a segmented way that could be seamlessly be put back together ... a few years before I'd heard about HLS ... sigh.

aanyway, the harder part was keeping track of the show metadata and working with their broadcast clock which was a bit whacky to figure out ...

On Fri, 28 Feb 2025, at 22:31, zak martell wrote:
> I deal with time zones all the time, as I write booking reservation
> software, and it’s a real pain. Gotta praise those that write
> programming language libraries.

--
Malcolm Herbert
mj...@mjch.net

[oldherl]

Oh, I can talk about the various Unix (and not-so-Unix) timezones of China. Let me prepare something

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mlug-au/09896354-71e0-4e69-a06a-aa68432c2a58%40app.fastmail.com.

[Malcolm Herbert]

Kevin - Sweden went back and forth a few times on the new calendar, so the date mess was even worse for them ...

I'd known the basics of this from a summary table but there's so much more in the extended article ... I like their almost NTP-like "calendar smear" which while it works fine for a second smeared over a day, can't really cater to 11 days over a 40 year period ... so no wonder they canned it ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_calendar

Mick - The table I was looking at around 6mo ago makes it clear that the "10 days lost in September 1752" is an approximate hack:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_adoption_dates_of_the_Gregorian_calendar_by_country

On Tue, 4 Mar 2025, at 18:15, Kevin Exton wrote:
> On 2/28/2025 9:47 PM, Michael Pope wrote:
>> "Talking of dates, when I was researching dates in a programming sense there seemed to be a lot of alterations over time. Like the 10 days which vanished in the year 1582. Oh what a party that must of been."
> "Once in the chair of Saint Peter

> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Peter>, Gregory XIII dedicated

> himself to reform of the Catholic Church ... He mandated that cardinals

> reside in their sees <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Episcopal_see>

> without exception, and designated a committee to update the Index of
> Forbidden Books

> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Index_of_Forbidden_Books>. Gregory XIII

> was also the patron of a new and greatly improved edition of the

> *Corpus juris canonici*." -- Wikipedia

>
> Pope Gregory certainly seems like he was the life of the party.
>
> -- Kevin
>
>

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Malcolm Herbert
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[Kevin Exton]

> On 2/28/2025 9:47 PM, Michael Pope wrote:
>> "Talking of dates, when I was researching dates in a programming sense there seemed to be a lot of alterations over time. Like the 10 days which vanished in the year 1582. Oh what a party that must of been."
>>

>> On 3/6/2025 3:28 PM, Malcolm Herbert wrote:
>>> Mick - The table I was looking at around 6mo ago makes it clear that the "10 days lost in September 1752" is an approximate hack:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_adoption_dates_of_the_Gregorian_calendar_by_country

That table looks like the same mess that daylight savings creates. Now
we want it. Now we don't.

What's amazing to me is that the catholic church ever had enough power
to convince all of these countries to change their entire system of
time-keeping. What do you think would happen today if Pope Francis just
came out and said we are going to adopt the Francian calendar?

-- Kevin

[Duncan Roe]

Malcolm and Oldherl,

A talk on timezones would be great!

Since you've both offered to talk about different aspects, how would
you like to handle it? Like would you coordinate regarding who covers
what?

For now I'll put it on the website as 2 talks.
 @Malcolm question in advance: can you give an example of a date
problem that gnu date can't resolve?
 @Oldherl: how do you like your name to be displayed as presenter?
(I don't have your family name).

Sorry for late reply, time gets away nowadays...

Cheers ... Duncan.

[Malcolm Herbert]

Duncan - thanks for the reminder, I'd completely forgotten I'd promised this ...

Let me think on it

Regards,
Malcolm

--
Malcolm Herbert
mj...@mjch.net

[Duncan Roe]

Hi Oldherl,

Are you still fine to give this talk? I didn't see your name on the attendance
kist.

Cheers ... Duncan.

On Wed, Mar 19, 2025 at 05:01:46PM -0700, Duncan Roe wrote:
> Malcolm and Oldherl,
>
> A talk on timezones would be great!
>
> Since you've both offered to talk about different aspects, how would
> you like to handle it? Like would you coordinate regarding who covers
> what?
>
> For now I'll put it on the website as 2 talks.
> @Malcolm question in advance: can you give an example of a date
> problem that gnu date can't resolve?
> @Oldherl: how do you like your name to be displayed as presenter?
> (I don't have your family name).
>
> Sorry for late reply, time gets away nowadays...
>
> Cheers ... Duncan.
>

[Duncan Roe]

On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 05:40:06PM +1100, Duncan Roe wrote:
> Hi Oldherl,
>
> Are you still fine to give this talk? I didn't see your name on the attendance
> kist.
>
> Cheers ... Duncan.

d'oh! "kist" should be "list" - D

[Duncan Roe]

Hi everyone,

Next meeting is 31st March, 1 week from today.

We have 4 names on the attendance list so I just booked the
Dining Room.

We have talks from Malcolm and Oldherl about different aspects

of time zones.

For my own peace of mind, will those intending to come please
put their name on the attendance list.

Cheers ... Duncan.

[oldherl]

Hi all,

I'm sorry, but I'm too busy this week so I won't be able to give the talk this time. I will attend and listen to Malcolm's talk and adjust my content accordingly and give a talk next month, though.

Thanks!

PS. Just call me by my username Oldherl. No need to put a last name.

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[Duncan Roe]

Hi everyone,

We will have 2 talks on Monday after all. Danny Robson has set up his own
self-hosted email server and will be telling us about it. See website for
details.

Cheers ... Duncan.

On Mon, Mar 24, 2025 at 02:55:21AM -0700, Duncan Roe wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>

> Next meeting is 31st March, 1 week from today.
> We have 4 names on the attendance list so I just booked the
> Dining Room.
> We have talks from Malcolm and Oldherl about different aspects
> of time zones.
> For my own peace of mind, will those intending to come please
> put their name on the attendance list.
>
> Cheers ... Duncan.

[Duncan Roe]

Hi Malcolm,

Everyone at the meeting last night wished you a speedy recovery,

Cheers ... Duncan.

On Sun, Mar 30, 2025 at 05:39:34PM +1100, Malcolm Herbert wrote:
> Duncan - apologies for the short notice, however I am in hospital
> recovering from a bout of gastro. I will not be able to present tomorrow
> night, sorry
>
>
> --
> Malcolm Herbert
> mj...@mjch.net

[Malcolm Herbert]

Duncan - oh thankyou all ... am at home now, trying to recover some lost sleep ... nobody ever sleeps well in hospital

Regards,
Malcolm

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Malcolm Herbert
mj...@mjch.net