Have I gone too far?

[David Hawkins]

Now my topics have to be reviewed before showing up? Well it looks like my account has been flagged on the Minecraft: Education Edition blog... I mean forum... well it's sort of a pseudo-forum... Ironic? Perhaps it is this tone that gets me in trouble... and they don't want me trolling their safe environment for communication and discussion. I would have issues with trolls as well IF there were any meaningful conversations taking place. There was initially, and I kept my display of displeasure down, but the content has steadily decreased and my spunk has steadily increased. I am just having trouble watching this whole "Minecraft in education" thing die out without trying to kick something.

It could have been so much... I was ready to be a spokesperson for MinecraftEDU and advocate getting it on computers all around the New York Capital Region and surrounding areas. How can I advocate for a product where they can't even clearly list what features it has or when new features will be added?

just frustrated here... had to get this off my chest.  

[Eric]

I'm with you. A lot of people have "sold out" in the purest 90s sense of the word.

[Jonathan Palles]

I LOVE THIS!!! I am with you 100%. I have also been trying to get responses and have been unsuccessful through the website. I had to tweet to get a response, then I got another response in this forum. However, they still have not approved my lesson and, in fact, it is no longer available (even to me). It appears that Neal Mangold is the only one working on Minecraft Education, as he has been the only one to reply to anything. 

It's very disappointing to see, considering how much work was done by the Edu team to create a useful tool for teachers. Considering the vast resources Microsoft has, you would expect they would take that framework and ADD to it. Instead, they have stripped it down to Pocket Edition. In addition, they launched one of the worst websites I've ever seen. From horrible forums to a general lack of communication, including almost NO instructions on using more complex features ( https://education.minecraft.net/support/knowledge-base/slash-commands/ ). So, in essence, they gutted the game and killed the community. 

I've been trying to start a Minecraft club for 5 years. I finally get myself to a position where I can, and this is what I have to work with. Disappointing. You are totally justified in your displeasure.

[Ashley Trevino]

The whole thing - disappointing. I still love the game and am now tinkering with my Little bits Cloudbit & BitCraft mod using MCEdu 1.7 to incorporate MC/IoT into a makerspace. I haven't walked away from it yet but I am focusing my attention on things that I can anticipate working on in the future. We have older Macs that can't update beyond 10.9 so the clock is ticking. I know MS spent a pretty penny on the game and were hoping to recapture that through licensing the MC:EE to edu customers.

My .02 rant: they are losing in the education realm to Google. It is a war between their entire platform (OS, Office, hosting, SAS, AD) and Google (GSuite,ChromeOS, etc). I'm surprised that these giants aren't doing more for Edu considering the fact that they are getting users to adopt their platform in massive chunks (one city ISD at a time!). These students are building digital portfolios and will be using one platform or another for 10 yrs. Just like all consumer products, you stick with what you know, especially when your data is tied up into it. With each school district that chooses to go Google or MS they are setting up an entire generation of consumers in one geographic area to use ONE platform. That is significant. That gives them an unusual advantage as companies that provide server/infrastructure products to have geographic clusters of life long consumers they scoop up with one EDU contract.
As a techie that works with teachers and students I am grossed out by the big picture I see. One where teachers are overworked, stressed out and underpaid. School districts forego raises, pass health insurance cost hikes onto employees and increase classroom sizes rather than higher additional teachers. Global technology giants taking billions of local tax revenue from school districts while ALSO capturing the next generation of consumers before they are even old enough to make purchases themselves.
Have I gone too far? Someone help me see it differently. I'm open to all points of view.

[Clare O'Neill]

No, you haven't gone too far. It's exactly what I'm seeing too.

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Clare O'Neill

Groton-Dunstable Middle School

Librarian, MLIS and MAT (Simmons)

978-448-6155 x 1750 (South)  or x1301(North)

[Clare O'Neill]

The kids are seeing it, too. They know that when our school district does its

next 'upgrade', the PCs will be gone, and replaced by Chromeboxes. There's 

nothing to be done, short of someone giving the district about $50K.

At a recent EdCamp when discussing this, we hope that the kids themselves

will be inspired to figure out a work around...

My Minecraft Club kids are the most amazing young people. They are 

truly a cross section of every level, every type, and genders. The 

amount of social-emotional learning that goes on during club time is 

really miraculous. 

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Clare O'Neill <con...@gdrsd.org> wrote:

No, you haven't gone too far. It's exactly what I'm seeing too.

On Fri, Apr 7, 2017 at 2:26 PM, Ashley Trevino <ashley....@austinisd.org> wrote:

The whole thing - disappointing.  I still love the game and am now tinkering with my Little bits Cloudbit & BitCraft mod using MCEdu 1.7 to incorporate MC/IoT into a makerspace.  I haven't walked away from it yet but I am focusing my attention on things that I can anticipate working on in the future.  We have older Macs that can't update beyond 10.9 so the clock is ticking.   I know MS spent a pretty penny on the game and were hoping to recapture that through licensing the MC:EE to edu customers.

My .02 rant:  they are losing in the education realm to Google.  It is a war between their entire platform (OS, Office, hosting, SAS, AD) and Google (GSuite,ChromeOS, etc).   I'm surprised that these giants aren't doing more for Edu considering the fact that they are getting users to adopt their platform in massive chunks (one city ISD at a time!).  These students are building digital portfolios and will be using one platform or another for 10 yrs. Just like all consumer products, you stick with what you know, especially when your data is tied up into it.   With each school district that chooses to go Google or MS they are setting up an entire generation of consumers in one geographic area to use ONE platform.  That is significant.    That gives them an unusual advantage as companies that provide server/infrastructure products to have geographic clusters of life long consumers they scoop up with one EDU contract.
As a techie that works with teachers and students I am grossed out by the big picture I see.   One where teachers are overworked, stressed out and underpaid.   School districts forego raises, pass health insurance cost hikes onto employees and increase classroom sizes rather than higher additional teachers.   Global technology giants taking billions of local tax revenue from school districts while ALSO capturing the next generation of consumers before they are even old enough to make purchases themselves.
Have I gone too far?   Someone help me see it differently.  I'm open to all points of view.

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Clare O'Neill

Groton-Dunstable Middle School

Librarian, MLIS and MAT (Simmons)

978-448-6155 x 1750 (South)  or x1301(North)

[Scott Beiter]

Hi David,

I work in the NY Cap region too and presented on MinecraftEdu at the NERIC Tech Awareness day a few years ago. The year before MS pulled the plug. I had districts from all around asking for me for help. I'm no MS rep and I had no answers for them. I still have no answers. I use MinecraftEdu in class and in our after school clubs. No Microsoft Education Edition yet because it's still too easy to use 1.7.20. My 7-12 club is suffering, though. The older students want the newer features or they go home and play their games. I am thinking of just making it a general gaming club to spark more interest. Play Roblox and even analog (card) games maybe. The elementary kids don't care as much and that club fills up.

[David Hawkins]

Do you not have 1.7.10? I am finding that the mod support for 1.7.10 is pretty robust, and I am able to do more and more with computercraftedu. I am also in the NY capital region and I was at your presentation that you are talking about! At the time I had already purchased MinecraftEDU and was beginning to design maps and put my ideas into work. I wonder how many districts around here actually have MinecraftEDU. Your presentation should have enticed them to talk to their district offices about purchasing it. 

May I ask what features your students are asking for? 

Clare, do you mean that all of your computers in your school will be replaced with chromebooks? We are headed to the way of chromebook carts to replace laptop carts and ipad carts, but the district still recognizes the importance of desktop labs that are capable of handling things like programming or drafting... or even MinecraftEDU. 

[Clare O'Neill]

David, 

Yes, the labs will be Chromeboxes, which are desktop versions of Chromebooks. 

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[Patti DePriest]

I wanted to let you know that you are not the only one who has posted a lesson, only to have it sit there as pending, then have it no longer be available ANYWHERE that I can find.  I have contacted Microsoft about this, but still have not gotten a response.  

I have also spoken to anyone who will listen at Microsoft telling them that making it available to only Win 10 is keeping students from playing the game.  They try to tell me it is more secure under Win 10 or some such jargon.  The licensing fee being yearly is also not going to work for many districts as well.  I love what Minecraft can do in a classroom, but feel that the enthusiasm for it is being squelched by roadblocks.

Patti DePriest

[Neal Manegold]

Hi Patti, as a support agent, I actually wrote back to you about this lesson issue and am waiting for a reply. You sent in your ticket on April 4 at 9am PDT, I replied 40 minutes later. You sent in the ticket through your work email (which I won't share obviously) so maybe it's there waiting for you?

"Hello, would you be able to let us know the name of this lesson so we can search for it quickly and find out what's going on? Thanks very much!"

[Neal Manegold]

Hi David and thanks for using our support channel for Education Edition. I've written a reply back and am posting it here as well. Thanks!

Education Edition runs off a similar codebase to Pocket Edition. You can use this article to get some clarity on 1.0 http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/Pocket_Edition_1.0. Education Edition also includes items like the following:
-Camera & Portfolio 
-Border, Build Allow & Deny Blocks
-Slates, Posters, Boards
-NPCs
-Classroom Mode for Minecraft

We currently do not publish the future roadmap, but you can use the Pocket Edition news and updates to get a flavor of what's coming.

[David Hawkins]

Thanks for getting back to me, Neal. My email address in the Minecraft: EE forum is my school email address, but when I just checked I noticed my account was not public. I checked off that box and hopefully you can see the school email now. The essential things that will push me over from MinecraftEDU would be worldedit, computercraftedu, and command blocks with 1.8.9 commands available. Even with those additions it will be a hard sell to my administration to go to a subscription model not to mention upgrading all our computers to Windows 10 and possibly having to upgrade our hardware as well... Once I see these things incorporated, though, I will certainly try to get my administration on board. 

[Neal Manegold]

Most of what you mention is on the way, I do have a question about 1.8.9 commands available. Are there specific commands important to you in this list that are not currently available? The Education Edition codebase has a different implementation of commands so it's likely the Java Minecraft and Education Edition never are fully aligned. I see mostly a few game rules and the scoreboard functionality. Are there other ones?

[David Hawkins]

The one thing that frustrates me about 1.7.10 is the sidebar scoreboard vanishing after 16 entries. This is fixed in 1.8.9 by only showing the top 16 slots. Other things that would be helpful are specific commands that are, again, not available in 1.7.10 but are there in 1.8.9:

scoreboard players operation

replaceitem

clear (data added)
testfor (dataTag)