Fillable container that can hold 10PSI pressure? (anything else besides 2-liter bottles?)

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Jerry [HM]

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Mar 17, 2021, 9:57:47 PM3/17/21
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Hey gang!

 

I am looking for a 'container' (to hold liquids), but 2-liter are just not the correct 'size' (so to speak).. I need something shorter.  Also needs to be able to tolerate pressure of to 10PSI 

 

These containers (physically/dimension wise) would be perfect: (3" x 10" x 15")

 

* cap at top (which can be to used to add/pressurize)

* additional hole at bottom (and important aspect: very LOW!) that can be used to dispense any liquid

 

slimline_container.jpg

 

 

However.. these specific containers can not hold any kind of pressure unfortunately.  :(  (the sides buldge out at like 1psi, and the 'seamed' manufacturing design scream for physical failure)

 

2-liters are just too tall...  (if the 'opening' was in the middle of the body..  they'd be perfect!)  :)

 

The size/shape above would be perfect..

 

All glass?  (can that hold up to 10psi, even a shape/container was found?)

 

Metal? (as long as it can hold liquids (drinkable))

 

I am currently using a 2-liter solution for my project, but in the mean time I wanted to see if there was an alternative container to better suit my needs.

 

Appreciate all suggestions/links...etc

 

Thanks!

-J

image003.jpg

Sarah Jean

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Mar 18, 2021, 7:34:20 AM3/18/21
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They make military 'jerry cans for water' that might be right for your application...they look like plastic/metal gasoline cans - often with a pour spout and significantly stronger construction. (be careful with purchasing used, incase someone used it for 'not water'). i'm not sure if you need them to hold the pressure, but those designed for higher altitude travel might be a start. 

And yes, those clear party dispensers are very, very light duty- i've had several crack and fail. 

cheers,
hapto

Sent from my tiny device with minimal communication capabilities.

On Mar 17, 2021, at 8:57 PM, Jerry [HM] <whisp...@hotmail.com> wrote:



 

Hey gang!

 

I am looking for a 'container' (to hold liquids), but 2-liter are just not the correct 'size' (so to speak).. I need something shorter.  Also needs to be able to tolerate pressure of to 10PSI 

 

These containers (physically/dimension wise) would be perfect: (3" x 10" x 15")

 

* cap at top (which can be to used to add/pressurize)

* additional hole at bottom (and important aspect: very LOW!) that can be used to dispense any liquid

 

<image003.jpg>

 

 

However.. these specific containers can not hold any kind of pressure unfortunately.  :(  (the sides buldge out at like 1psi, and the 'seamed' manufacturing design scream for physical failure)

 

2-liters are just too tall...  (if the 'opening' was in the middle of the body..  they'd be perfect!)  :)

 

The size/shape above would be perfect..

 

All glass?  (can that hold up to 10psi, even a shape/container was found?)

 

Metal? (as long as it can hold liquids (drinkable))

 

I am currently using a 2-liter solution for my project, but in the mean time I wanted to see if there was an alternative container to better suit my needs.

 

Appreciate all suggestions/links...etc

 

Thanks!

-J

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Mark Rehorst

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Mar 18, 2021, 11:20:52 AM3/18/21
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How about PVC pipe with end caps?

Ray Scheufler

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Mar 18, 2021, 11:41:50 AM3/18/21
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Whatever you choose to use, I'd recommend doing a hydrostatic test if possible.  Better to pressurize it with water before pressurizing with air / water. The water is non compressible so if you have a containment failure there isn't a bunch of extra "stuff" trying to push out (and push the container parts out).  Obviously high pressure fluids can have their own problems, but that is usually not a problem until you get to > 1000 psi.  When you do a hydrostatic test you generally only go to about 2x your expected pressure.  Here is a youtube video that came out recently of a hobby machinest / steam enthusiast doing a hydrostatic test on her homebuilt boiler.  Similar concept / pressure range to what you are doing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6i96pu4wxA

As for common things that can hold pressure, be food safe, and be refilled:
Soda bottles (good for ~100 psi)
Beer bottles (not sure how high, but beer is CO2 in solution so probably close to the same range as soda)
Beer Growlers (glass, available in 32 oz or 64 oz, sealing is probably the tricky part)
Most cylindrical metal things (this would likely require custom fabrication, certainly would want to test before use)


You will notice that most of these things are cylindrical, that is partially a surface area / volume optimization, but I believe that it also has some advantages for strength and pressure resilience (allowing you to go with a reduced wall thickness to hold a given load).  If you go to the extreme of pressures, you notice that very few things have aggressive corners.  Looking at welding / camping propane canisters, they are cylinders with fairly rounded ends.  Looking at a griling propane tank, they are cylinders with fairly rounded bottoms / tops. 

The idea of PVC with caps is interesting.  I know that people use PVC to hold high pressure (~100 psi) air for potato cannons but I also know that every time I see on of those designs on the internet someone comments that it is unsafe.  I suspect that the glue joint between your pipe and cap is going to be the weakest point.  I'd bet that it can hold your 10 psi without problems though.

Ray Scheufler

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Jerry [HM]

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Mar 18, 2021, 12:25:36 PM3/18/21
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Thanks everyone.

 

The obstacle/hurdle here is the size/shape.

 

Most 'pressurized' ready plastic containers are cylindical.

 

If I need anything that can hold 2-liters to 1-gal..  I am stuck with 2-liters...LOL

 

But they are just too tall for my project unfortunately.

 

Soda, beer (growlers) wouldnt hold enough liquid either.  :(

 

Its a balance between size/shape.. and capacity.

 

 

@Mark- I didnt think of PVC.

* Is that drinkable/food safe?

* One end would need to be permanently sealed..and the other (removable..so you can re-fill the contents when empty)

- perhaps a screw able caps with o-ring or something?  (this still leaves me a cylindrical type piece though)

 

Those slimline container (shape) were just sooooo perfect!  :)

 

I was even tempted to try and put a 'brace/wall' on each side to stop the morphing/expanding of the container.. but still the 'seam' is a failure point.

 

Would glass be too dangerous?  (its only 10-15psi tops)   not that I have any container/shape that 'fits the bill'.....  but still curious.

 

Appreciate the 'brain-storming'!!   Keep it coming! :)

Mark Rehorst

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Mar 19, 2021, 7:11:31 AM3/19/21
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PVC can carry your drinking water, so it should be safe. Here's a pressure calculator for PVC pipe: https://www.expert4pvc.com/Pressure%20Rating.html
10 psi is definitely not going to be a problem.

Unless the walls of a square container are very thick, as soon as you pressurize it they will bulge.

Sarah Jean

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Mar 19, 2021, 10:01:55 AM3/19/21
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the military HDPE jerry cans are square /rectangular and the 5gal ones i used in my tiny house for backup water come with gaskets that would help hold a seal under pressure. 10 psi isn't too much, i'm guessing they will bow slightly but not much.

Scepter Military Grade Water Cans (Blue, 2.5 Gal (10L)) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B015642YN0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_K3M5WGDJ62VC9Y0FYQ7X

so now i have to know... what the heck are you getting into?



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On Mar 19, 2021, at 6:11 AM, Mark Rehorst <mark.r...@gmail.com> wrote:

PVC can carry your drinking water, so it should be safe. Here's a pressure calculator for PVC pipe: https://www.expert4pvc.com/Pressure%20Rating.html

Jerry [HM]

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Mar 19, 2021, 10:34:30 AM3/19/21
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Still working on this:  (older videos)

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQvH-3eA2kk

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P95c05L9qJU

^ this is where my 'un-obtainable' containers come in to play!  :)

 

 

Im hoping NOT to have to re-design things to make room for bigger containers.. :(

 

maybe I look into fabricating some 'slimline' versions for metal? (average/thicker sheet metal and weld it up?) (although they would probably still 'bow' ...  maybe a wall/bracket on each side to stop the buldge??)

Tom Gralewicz

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Mar 19, 2021, 11:51:24 AM3/19/21
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Remember why pressure tanks are usually round.

A surface 15" x 10" at 10psi is going to be pressed by 1,500 lb of force.

My suggestion would be to redesign the storage area to accommodate cylindrical tanks.

Tom Gralewicz
Chronic Maker



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Tammi B

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Mar 19, 2021, 12:14:23 PM3/19/21
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Hi. Recommend to MMS. I designed a product and need help with getting a 3D model for my idea. Help? Steps.
? Thanks in advance. Tammi 

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Jerry [HM]

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Mar 19, 2021, 12:50:50 PM3/19/21
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Hi-

 

Maybe some more info would help with getting a response?

 

* What kind of product did you create?  mechanical?  organic?

* What is the end use of this 3D model? (visual? 3D printed?   CNC machined?)

Jerry [HM]

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Mar 19, 2021, 12:55:38 PM3/19/21
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Yeah.. I have been trying to avoid this.  :)

 

Well not cylindrical tanks... but at least one where the opening is not at the TOP with the highest dimension being height.

 

if a 2-liter bottle with a 'cap' in the middle/side.. (so I could lay it horizontally) would work as well.. (I just havent found anything cylindrical with an opening NOT on its 'ends'  (if that makes sense)

 

The issue is that the tops of the 2-liters.. are now ABOVE my (solenoid) values..LOL..

 

 

Perhaps a better/different 'line/hose'?  The current hose/line I have now.. is more 'plastic' than rubber.. and does NOT bend very well in short distances.

 

Maybe there is a more 'rubber' based (food safe) line I can use?  1/4" OD?  to maybe have the lines go DOWN first.. then routed back up to the solenoid values?

Tammi B

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Mar 19, 2021, 1:27:17 PM3/19/21
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Hi Jerry. Can I call u to discuss??  Tammi Bansmer. 

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Ray Scheufler

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Mar 19, 2021, 1:28:30 PM3/19/21
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I bet you can accomplish this with creative use of PVC.  If you have the bulk of your storage as a pipe section horizontally, you glue a cap on the end, the other end if a 90 degree fitting glued on.  Vertically you have a short length of pipe with a glued on adaptor that converts PVC to FIP or MIP threads.  You screw on / off the cap when you want to fill it.  Glued PVC fittings are all pressure rated (150PSI), your house needs to be able to have corners in it.


Another option instead of getting a more flexible hose / line, is to put fittings in it.  You can get brass or plastic hose barb fittings that are 90 degrees.  That would allow you to turn corners with a pretty tight radius if necessary.


Ray Scheufler


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Jerry [HM]

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Mar 19, 2021, 2:39:18 PM3/19/21
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Hi Tammi-

 

I would not be the one doing any 3D modeling for you unfortunately.. (sorry)  (beginner at BEST!)..

 

I was just trying to help you get some responses, as your initial post was very vague, and knowing those questions may dictate if a person is skilled/knowledgeable in the software that you need.

Royce Pipkins

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Mar 19, 2021, 2:45:59 PM3/19/21
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Would two 1-liter bottles work? 

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Jerry [HM]

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Mar 19, 2021, 2:48:27 PM3/19/21
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PVC might be something I'll need to look into more now.

 

thanks.

 

I still have the same question(s) though.. is the 'glue' going to be ok to be used with food safe liquids?

 

As far as my current set-up.. and thinking perhaps more flexible hose.. I already have some 90 degree pneumatic push fittings on the top of my 2-liters... but they are still physically located higher than the solenoid valve input ports. 

 

So I would have to go 'down'.. then 'up'...

 

I'll have to do some 'testing' with some PCV to see how much length/OD gets me what 'volume' in liquid containment.

Ray Scheufler

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Mar 19, 2021, 2:52:38 PM3/19/21
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