Boat Length

[Vincent Philipp]

Hi Everyone
I don't now if anyone of you remembers me.
I am part of a student group in Austria.
We started building a Sailing drone last year.

Now we are at the point that we have a Boat to test our software on.

It is a 1.2 meters long MaxiMoop Hull.

Now that we have a functional testing Hull the Engineers plan on creating the final boat for the Micro Transat challenge.
As  I understand a boat can be a maximum Length of 2.4 meters (is that Length over all or Waterline ? )

We are now in the Process of deciding on a boat Length.
And I was wondering if you that have a bit more experience could Help us here.

Is there an advantage in creating an around 2- 2.4 meter Boat over a 1.2 Meter one ?
I would love i you could weigh in with your opinions here.

Kind Regards Vincent

By the way here are a few Fotos of our Progress if you are Interested.

And If you would like to keep track of us:

https://www.linkedin.com/company/high-performance-sailing-tu-graz/

Or on Instagram under: High Performance Sailing - TU graz

[Paul Miller]

Hi Vincent,

 

The picture in the snow is quite pretty, and shows your enthusiasm, well done!

 

The 2.4 meter limit is overall and comes from a USCG interpretation that a “vessel” is over that length, hence making our boats “oceanographic devices”. That has some legal and reporting benefits.

 

Having said that, the philosophical goal of the competition is to go as small as possible, not large. The smaller boats are easier logistically and financially, and can use many off the shelf components, but are more challenging from weight and power requirements. The larger boats are faster, can carry more equipment but are more expensive and generally a lot heavier, so they need more people (and perhaps a trailer or hoist) to get in the water.

 

Your boat looks a bit like a MaxiMOOP, which was designed to fit in a car boot (trunk).

 

Good luck, it is great to see your project!

 

All the best,

Paul

Or on Instagram under: High Performance Sailing - TU graz

 

 

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Microtransat" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to microtransat...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microtransat/0262aeb8-ee66-4dad-af0c-80ccbf81ac0dn%40googlegroups.com.

 

[Robin Lovelock]

Hi Vincent. I could not agree with Paul more: much better to choose low power electronics to enable a small boat.
The advantage of 1.2 metres is that it is possible to use a standard marblehead ready built hull - just fill it with foam ! ;-)
Our tests over the years show that, with a conventional boat, the lighter you make it, the faster it will sail.
Of course, this is for a conventional hull, pushing through the water. Not more recent racing yaughts that have "wings" under the water,
using similar technoilogy to an aircraft. As that wise avionics engineer said, "KISS = Keep It Simple, Stupid" ;-)

Austria ? I am reminded of our 2008 Newsletter page on www.gpss.co.uk/xmas08.htm
Not just meeting guys at that robot boat event, but your famous singing toilets :-)
My Youtube channel has latest news at the front, and somewhere there will be that 2008 holiday video.
Here is is : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmB4ExkfVJg  - enjoy :-)

I tried to follow your linkedin link, managed to log in, but Google Chrome did not like the visit to your web site.
But I'll take Paul's word for it. My crazy friends in Austria play golf in the snow ! :-)

Take Care
Robin
www.gpss.co.uk
- and Snoopy on www.gpss.co.uk/autop.htm :-)

Take Care, Stay Safe, and enjoy life while we can :-)
www.GPSS.co.uk * , www.NHSCare.info , www.GPSHobby.info
UK Landline: (UK+44) 01344 620775. Mobile: 07736 353 404.
Robin Lovelock, 22 Armitage Crt, Sunninghill, Ascot, Berkshire, SL59TA, England, UK.
GPS Latitude,Longitude = 51.39697,-0.66005
Youtube videos with latest first: www.youtube.com/user/RobinLovelock/videos
See Contact page. e.g. Track Robin's car C4 GPS on SpotT2 SatComs tracker
* Alternates of www.GPSS.co.uk on www.gpss.force9.co.uk , gpss.co.uk.testurl.co.uk , www.tsogpss.co.uk.gridhosted.co.uk , gpss.co.uk.c51.previewmysite.eu .
For www.NHSCare.info add /nhscare e.g. gpss.co.uk.testurl.co.uk/nhscare .

[Vincent Philipp]

Hi

But wasn't the only boat that completed the challenge about 2 meters ?
I understand that a smaller boat is cheaper and easier to handle.

But lets say I am willing to do the work of building and creating a completely new hull,

is a bigger boat more likely to survive harsher weather situations ? 

A bigger boat should, in my mind, be a bit more stable in the water being less influenced by smaller waves

and gusts which should save energy. While it might be more complicated and have bigger and more expensive Electronic parts,

those might also be more reliable than the smaller components. A bigger boat might also have more space for redundant systems.

A bigger boat should also be faster if I compare the hull speed.
Of course a smaller boat might be more compact and therefore be stronger from a constructional standpoint.

Does that make sense or do I have a mistake in my train of thoughts.
Do you know anyone that has experience in hull design and could help me with this matter.

Thanks for your Answers and kind regards

Vincent

[Oliver epsom]

Personally the bigger the better. A bigger boat is harder to build, more expensive, requires trailers, launch cranes etc but:

1: is going to be much more seaworthy

2: can have a taller mast, increasing it's chances of getting smooth flowing wind.

3: it can carry bigger batteries and more equipment

4: the equipment it does carry will not be squashed in, so a better architecture can be used

5: a longer heavier vessel will be more directionally stable and thus require fewer rudder corrections

6: And this is the key one I think, a bigger boat can have MUCH more solar power available and this is an absolutely crucial concern.

7: the boat is more visible - could be a good or a bad thing.

8: should have said this earlier, but everything can be much more solid and robust.

As you say, the only vessel so far to have succeeded was close to the size limit, as was open transits excellent attempt.

Small may be easy but so far I don't see any evidence of it being successful.

For systems testing and integration however small is a good call.

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to microtransat...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microtransat/9cd0652b-6df1-4d3d-b674-de9de6428914n%40googlegroups.com.

[Paul Miller]

I think an important point to remember is that this is a "challenge", not a business plan. I believe the smallest boat to sail across the Atlantic with an autopilot is about two meters long. Larger is actually easier - imagine trying to get a 100 mm boat to successfully sail across the Atlantic!

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microtransat/CAJ0SNAL4FyGtcRi6DoTY9u4ohoe1H9mFbreiwoQtZSkpmzbwRw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Robin Lovelock on robin@gpss.co.uk]

Thanks Guys. Little more for me to add other than two things:

a) the Australian micromite is both low power, and easy to program: www.gpss.co.uk/micromit.htm

Some boats may be power-hungry, and therefore large, because of the computers chosen ?

b) at great risk to UK National Security, I am releasing this photo of myself with what I may call "Snoopy Micro". Paul: sadly, the nano-chip technology used has not got the size down to your suggested 100mm = 10cm = < 4 inches. It is twice that length at 190mm = 19cm = 7.7 inches.

It is a great pity that I do not have the time to work on it, and/or ask UK MoD to declassify the "Top Secret UK Eyes Only" documentation. I do not have the time ? See latest videos on my Youtube channel. You will notice that this tiny boat does not yet have a Union Jack flag on it - it is only used to wind-up the yanks - including my many friends across the "pond". Who invented the digital computer and silicon chips anyway - or is that  silly con chips ? :-)

Take Care

Robin

www.gpss.co.uk

--

Take Care, Stay Safe, and enjoy life while we can :-)
www.GPSS.co.uk * , www.NHSCare.info , www.GPSHobby.info
UK Landline: (UK+44) 01344 620775. Mobile: 07736 353 404.
Robin Lovelock, 22 Armitage Crt, Sunninghill, Ascot, Berkshire, SL59TA, England, UK.
GPS Latitude,Longitude = 51.39697,-0.66005
Youtube videos with latest first: www.youtube.com/user/RobinLovelock/videos
See Contact page. e.g. Track Robin's car C4 GPS on SpotT2 SatComs tracker
* Alternates of www.GPSS.co.uk on www.gpss.force9.co.uk , gpss.co.uk.testurl.co.uk , www.tsogpss.co.uk.gridhosted.co.uk , gpss.co.uk.c51.previewmysite.eu .
For www.NHSCare.info add /nhscare e.g. gpss.co.uk.testurl.co.uk/nhscare .

Sent: Mon, Mar 20, 2023 12:44 pm
Subject: Re: [microtransat] Boat Length

[D A]

Agree with Oliver - we’re using small for testing, then as big as we can go for the real thing 

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/microtransat/CAJ0SNAL4FyGtcRi6DoTY9u4ohoe1H9mFbreiwoQtZSkpmzbwRw%40mail.gmail.com.