German translation of the Metamath book

[Alexander van der Vekens]

I want to announce that I created a German translation of the Metamath book, based on the Latex files of the original book (see GitHub https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book). I plan to provide it for the Metamath community, and all interested, German speaking people. The easiest way to do it, in my opinion, is to add the PDF-version to the Metamath hompage, section "Metamath book" (https://us.metamath.org/index.html#book).Would this be acceptable, or are there other proposals?

[Mario Carneiro]

Sounds good to me. You should send a PR to https://github.com/metamath/metamath-website-seed, which contains the source for index.html. What are you planning to do with the translated sources? Are they in a separate repo? The site build does run latex for some things although I don't think it compiles the metamath pdf right now.

On Sun, Dec 3, 2023 at 3:29 AM 'Alexander van der Vekens' via Metamath <meta...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I want to announce that I created a German translation of the Metamath book, based on the Latex files of the original book (see GitHub https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book). I plan to provide it for the Metamath community, and all interested, German speaking people. The easiest way to do it, in my opinion, is to add the PDF-version to the Metamath hompage, section "Metamath book" (https://us.metamath.org/index.html#book).Would this be acceptable, or are there other proposals?

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[Jim Kingdon]

Wow. For those who haven't translated anything, it might sound easy ("oh I know both languages and the subject matter") but my experience is that translating a sentence or two is one thing, but translating a larger work (in this case, a 200 page book) is quite another.

Thanks!

Adding to https://us.metamath.org/index.html#book sounds good to me.

On 12/3/23 00:29, 'Alexander van der Vekens' via Metamath wrote:

I want to announce that I created a German translation of the Metamath book, based on the Latex files of the original book (see GitHub https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book). I plan to provide it for the Metamath community, and all interested, German speaking people. The easiest way to do it, in my opinion, is to add the PDF-version to the Metamath hompage, section "Metamath book" (https://us.metamath.org/index.html#book).Would this be acceptable, or are there other proposals?

[Alexander van der Vekens]

I have just provided the German translation of the Metamath book as PDF to be integrated into the Metamath homepage, see GitHub Pull Request #21 (https://github.com/metamath/metamath-website-seed/pull/21). After this PR is accepted and merged, the German translation of the Metamath book should be available for download on the Homepage https://us.metamath.org/index.html#book.

Here some remarks:

• The objective of the translation was to stay as close as possible to the original text.
• New appendices "Metamath 100" and "Glossary" (translations of the most important words/phrases in both directions German -> English, English -> German) are added (not contained in the original version)
  
• Some updates were made reflecting the changes of Metamath since 2019, mostly in footnotes
• Errata (see https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book/blob/master/errata.md) are mostly considered/corrected

Everybody speaking German (not only native speakers) and being interested in this translation is invited to give feedback for improvements and additions. This can be done either here in the Google group, or as issues in Github (https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book/issues), which would be the preferred way.

I plan to provide the LaTeX-sources of the German translation also on Github, maybe in a folder "german" of the repository https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book. Then,  the files can be edited collaboratively. Furthermore, if the Metamath book is updated, the original (which is also located there) and the German translation can be modified simultaneously (like set.mm and iset.mm regarding common parts).

As Mario mentioned before, the LaTex-file of the original Metamath-book is also available in the repository https://github.com/metamath/metamath-website-seed (folder latex). I can also place a copy of the German translation there, but the "master" of the document should be in https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book.

I hope that all German speaking readers will enjoy this translation, and maybe some more German speaking people become interested in Metamath in this way.

[Discher, Samiro]

I only looked at the translation in excerpts, but what I've seen I find quite nicely written. Sehr schick! 😊

PS: I'm a native German speaker.

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Von: 'Alexander van der Vekens' via Metamath <meta...@googlegroups.com>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Dezember 2023 18:04:24
An: Metamath
Betreff: Re: [Metamath] German translation of the Metamath book

 

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[Dirk-Anton Broersen]

Hello/Gütemntag Alexander,

meine name ist Dirk-Anton Broersen und ich lebe nach die Deutchegrenze und vielleicht känn ich dich wär machen in Deutch.

The German language is a hard subject.

Metamath is okay for other languages only to provide the 'communality' for such language you should find or possibly pay a translator.

On the internet there are many websites that provide translators but google.com sometimes failes. If you enter failure in google and translate is to another language. Then possibly sometimes there is a correct satisfying answer. Only when you adjust grammatical  you just need word.

With friendly regards,

Dirk-Anton Broersen

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Van: 'Alexander van der Vekens' via Metamath <meta...@googlegroups.com>
Verzonden: dinsdag 5 december 2023 18:04
Aan: Metamath <meta...@googlegroups.com>
Onderwerp: Re: [Metamath] German translation of the Metamath book

 

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[Discher, Samiro]

Dear Dirk-Anton,

I'd like to inform you that nobody here asked for a German translation (but they provided a pretty good one),

and also that your attempt to write German resulted in worse German than – as a German citizen – I've ever seen produced by anyone or anything, including Google Translate (which, by itself, is a terrible translator).
I cannot identify your precise statement.

But I can recommend www.deepl.com/.

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Von: meta...@googlegroups.com <meta...@googlegroups.com> im Auftrag von Dirk-Anton Broersen <dirk-...@live.nl>
Gesendet: Dienstag, 5. Dezember 2023 23:06:11
An: meta...@googlegroups.com
Betreff: Re: [Metamath] German translation of the Metamath book

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/metamath/DB9P190MB16910E82171491DD414C1D388385A%40DB9P190MB1691.EURP190.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM.

[Thierry Arnoux]

Das ist ja großartig!

The community also has Italian, Dutch, Russian, and even French members (ouch, that would be me!), so maybe one day we'll even see translations in more languages! 😉

May I ask how long it took you both to complete the translation?

MfG,
_
Thierry

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[Alexander van der Vekens]

Thierry Arnoux schrieb am Donnerstag, 7. Dezember 2023 um 23:10:46 UTC+1:

May I ask how long it took you both to complete the translation?

I think we started in May 2021, so it took about 2.5 years. Of course we had many (longer) breaks and did not work full time on it. And we used deepL for bulk translations, which were not so easy because of the lots of formatting and other technical items within the LaTeX sources. It required at least 3 larger passes  to get an acceptable result: first to eliminate the technical issues, then to fix the coarser translation mistakes, and finally to fine polish the wording. The technical issues, however, are still a problem, as can be seen by Mario's review remarks in https://github.com/metamath/metamath-website-seed/pull/21. I hope I can provide a revised version this weekend.

[Alexander van der Vekens]

After the PR https://github.com/metamath/metamath-website-seed/pull/21 was accepted and merged, the German translation of the Metamath book is now available for download on the Homepage https://us.metamath.org/index.html#book.

Again, everybody speaking German (not only native speakers) and being interested in this translation is invited to give feedback for improvements and additions. This can be done either here in the Google group, or as issues in Github (https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book/issues), which would be the preferred way (The title of the issue should start with "German:").

The LaTeX-sources of the German translation are also commited to Github, in a folder "german" of the repository https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book. The correspondig pull reqest (https://github.com/metamath/metamath-book/pull/244), however, is still pending.