Query Corner

[Richard Ratcliffe]

Someone out there may be able to enlighten me as to the history of Stella Coaches and a very grand vehicle registration KJ3834.  Unsure of the chassis from the radiator design.  Morris Commercial comes to mind but I may be way off!

 

This shot turned up in the sorting of items of transport memorabilia of my cousin Bob Ratcliffe so he would have possessed it for good reason.  Almost certainly associated with the Medway Towns and very possibly Rochester.  So probably within the remit of this News group!   Scribbled on the reverse are the words “Mrs Hills, 97 Shakespeare Road, Gillingham”  and a feint rubber stamp “BLITZ STUDIOS”   The sequence of “KJ” registration numbers would have been 1931 / 2, working from contemporary M&D vehicle registrations.

 

So there’s this week’s challenge!

 

Richard Ratty

[Group_owner]

Hi Richard, thanks for another interesting picture.

This vehicle is listed in PSV Circle publication C1250, listing vehicles built by Bedford during the 1930s (published in 2011).

KJ 3834 was a Bedford WLB with Duple B20?F? bodywork, new 11/31 to Fred Sands of Hoo St Werburgh.

Fred Sands traded from 1922 till at least 1932, though we don't yet know how long he continued for.

At the time this vehicle was new he was running a licensed service between Chatham and Hoo (attached page comes from a February 1932 edition of Notices & Proceedings confirming renewal of the licence).  

However the picture could be later, even post-war, so Stella Coaches may have been a later owner.  

I've not yet matched that fleetname to anyone specific, so we can't be sure that Sands was still the owner by that time.

Another one that will need some more research.

Derek J

[Nicholas King]

I have the copy from M&D archives of the legal agreement whereby Fred Sands sold out to them on 14th February 1933.

                No vehicles were involved.

                Derek can doubtless go back to issue 2 of Notices & Proceedings where the initial licence under the Road Traffic Act 1930 was granted for continuation of the existing service, with an adjustment.

 

Nicholas King

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdekbusclub...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/e5b0b5c5-d56e-470b-a7a6-3815fe3c01cdn%40googlegroups.com.

Virus-free. www.avg.com

[Clive Cheeseman]

I have a note that Fred Sands entered into an agreement with Maidstone & District and Chatham & District in February 1933 for the purchase of vehicle, goodwill and licences, but allowing him to continue operating contract work with two vehicles up until October 1933, after which only one vehicle of 7 seats or less.

[Nicholas King]

I have checked the legal agreement, and confirm that no vehicle changed hands.

                Sands was allowed to continue contract work with two vehicles (up to 14 and 20 seats respectively) until 31/5/33, thereafter one vehicle (up to 14 seats to 30/9/33, thereafter up to 7 seats), within a tightly-defined geographical area.

                This agreement is signed and dated 14/2/33, and seems to have superseded an earlier draft dated 7/2/33, but not signed.  Perhaps that is where Clive’s different version comes from?

                I have no later information about Fred Sands, and the only route licence he ever held seems to be the stage service which was surrendered to M&D.

Nor have I come across any reference to Stella Coaches.

                Note that Fred Sands is not to be confused with Henry Sands, Wouldham, who sold out to M&D on 20/10/31 (effective 24/10/31), and in which file there is subsequent correspondence relating to an illegal operation to the Derby in 6/35.

 

Nicholas King

 

From: mdekb...@googlegroups.com <mdekb...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Clive Cheeseman
Sent: 09 August 2020 10:25
To: Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup <mdekb...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: [Invicta] Re: Query Corner

 

I have a note that Fred Sands entered into an agreement with Maidstone & District and Chatham & District in February 1933 for the purchase of vehicle, goodwill and licences, but allowing him to continue operating contract work with two vehicles up until October 1933, after which only one vehicle of 7 seats or less.

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdekbusclub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/de56a9bc-4420-4c70-8504-bc500ab68926o%40googlegroups.com.

Virus-free. www.avg.com

[Nicholas King]

John Cherry comments re Bob Radcliffe's photo of Stella Coaches KL 3834 :

 

I think there is a good clue there with his note 97 Shakespeare Road, Gillingham. I say this because next to that property is access to an open piece land which was obviously next to the rear garden. Bearing in mind we are talking about the 1930's I think the vehicle is parked there. This site, looking across from that addres, would be in line with Medway Hospital, as it was then, and I think the top of the building shown above the garden is the top of a hospital building.

 

I may well be wrong but it might be worth "bouncing it" off members.

 

Nicholas King

Virus-free. www.avg.com

[Derek Jones]

In my original posting on this subject I intended to attach this scan from a February 1932 N&P, showing the timetable from Fred Sands's Chatham to Hoo service.

Derek J

[Nicholas King]

According to my notes this licence had been granted on appeal following refusal of the original application in Notices & Proceedings issue 2 (20/3/31) to continue the existing service of nine years between Fenn and Chatham with an extension to Allhallows.

                It was then suspended from 13/6/32 to 31/7/32 – not sure why – and later extended to run from Stoke, also via High Halstow.  The final licence was issued from 1/12/32 to 30/11/33.

 

Nicholas King

--

You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Invicta Bus & Coach Newsgroup" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mdekbusclub...@googlegroups.com.

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/mdekbusclub/CAJ9GgXJyPcrn_NR3tu41_HkFxxjkfa_nKxC0hUwE5A6NZDHmXw%40mail.gmail.com.

Virus-free. www.avg.com