Annealing and Normalizing temperature for F316 & SS410

[SURESH]

Dear Experts

Kindly let us know the Annealing and Normalizing temperature for below material grade

1.ASTM A473 Typ410- Annealing and Normalizing temperature

2.ASTM A182 F316- Solution Annealing and Normalizing temperature

Kindly let us know this temperature is anywhere mentioned in the standard

Regards

Suresh kumar

[Customer Care]

1. Because ASTM A 473 Gr.410 steel is martensitic in structure, the only acceptable heat treatments are quenching and tempering. There is no annealed or normalized for it.

 

2. In turn, because ASTM A182 F316 is austenitic in structure at any temperature, it is not made for normalized or annealing heat treatment.

An annealing of solubilized between 1050 to 1150 C to rearrange chromium carbides in the structure, affected for example by a welding process, is valid.

 

 

Ramon Briceno

Metallurgical Engineer / Oil & Gas

 

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[SURESH]

Thanks Mr.Ramon Briceno

But my client is suggesting to do annealing for ASTM A473 Typ410 at the temperature of 950 C (Customer mentioned TDC). Is there any adverse effect on the change of hardness?

Regards

Suresh Kumar

[Regino Millan]

Dear Expert,

I had one question: materials xxs  size 6'thick 21.95mm appreciate your advice.  

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[Ramin Kondori]

Dear  Suresh,

does your client require these heat treatments for the raw material or after the fabrication (e.g. after welding)...?

please share more details.

Regards

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

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[Customer Care]

SURESH,

 

Yes, SS410 steel can be purchased, in annealed condition, or in a tempering condition with prior normalization, as stated in ASTM A479, point 4.4.1. But the question is what are you going to do with the steel, are you going to weld it, machine it, or use it directly in its state of supply (annealed)?

If you are going to use it in a welding condition, since the annealing structure is lost, instead hard hardening structures such as martensite are formed. Then a tempering must be done to preserve the best hardness and toughness properties and that the piece does not suffer from hydrogen-induced cold cracking.

 

Ramon Briceno,

Metallurgical Engineer- OIL&GAS.

 

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From: SURESH
Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2020 1:02 AM
To: Materials & Welding

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[sathis...@gmail.com]

Dear Mr.Ramin Kondari

My customer is given TDC for annealing at 955 C but raw material supplier is suggesting that they do only with 850 C. Its not for fabrication, to give raw material into finished component by machining. Required hardness is 160 BHN

As per ASTM A473, Grade/Typ. 410 can be supplied as per the following conditions:

 

Condition A refers to annealing. (ASTM A473 mentioned with A, 1,2,3,). In this case how to determine the Annealing temperature?

My requirement is to get hardness of 160BHN

Regards

Suresh

[sathis...@gmail.com]

Dear Mr.Ramon Briceno,

I am going to use it for machining only. Required hardness is 160BHN

So for ASTM A473 Typ410 can we suggest annealing temperature of 950 C for 1hour/inch soaking and furnace cooling?

Regards

SURESH

On Wednesday, July 22, 2020 at 9:20:32 AM UTC+5:30, SURESH wrote:

[Ramin Kondori]

If this is the TDC for raw material as per contract, then you have to find a supplier who can provide it unless you can prove that it would cause problems during fabrication or operation. And that is why I told you to provide us with more details. 

Then you need a qualified engineer who reviews all the documents and is able to get into a discussion with your client to find out whether other alternatives are acceptable or not. I do not think you can do it via online inquiries; you need to hire someone to do this for you... 

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

-----------------------------------------------------------

PG-Dip. in Welding Engineering (IWE  AT  0070)

BSc. in Civil Engineering (IUT)

BGAS Painting Inspector

ASNT Level I&II

                        

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 7:45 AM <sathis...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr.Ramin Kadori.

My customer is given TDC for annealing at 955 C but raw material supplier is suggesting that they do only with 850 C. Its not for fabrication, to give raw material into finished component by machining. Required hardness is 160 BHN

As per ASTM A473, Grade/Typ. 410 can be supplied as per the following conditions:




Condition A refers to annealing. (ASTM A473 mentioned with A, 1,2,3,). In this case how to determine the Annealing temperature?


My requirement is to get hardness of 160BHN

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[SURESH]

Hi My question is what is the suggested annealing temperature for .ASTM A473 Typ410 grade   

[SURESH]

Hi My question is what is the suggested annealing temperature for .ASTM A473 Typ410 grade. If your refer the standard of  ASTM A473, Table 2 they have given condition like A,1,2,3.

So if it is annealed condition what is the suggested temperature to achieve 223BHN?

Note: Refer attachment

Regards

Suresh

On Saturday, 25 July 2020 at 09:24:17 UTC+5:30 ramink...@gmail.com wrote:

[pgos...@rogers.com]

Hello Suresh,

 

Please see the referenced standard and  important clauses as highlighted. You may read those and use your discretion to find solutions to your problem. If the problem is specific, then as suggested by Ramin Kondori, engaging a metallurgical specialist to find the correct solutions would be worthwhile and time saving for you organization.

Thanks.

 

P.Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.

Independent  & Consulting Welding & Metallurgical Specialist

Aramco Approved Designated Project Welding Engineer(DPWR)

Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pradip-goswami-2999855/

Email:pgos...@rogers.com,pradip....@gmail.com

Cell/Whasapp:1-905-9793232

 

From: material...@googlegroups.com <material...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of SURESH
Sent: July 25, 2020 1:58 AM
To: Materials & Welding <material...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [MW:31191] Re: Annealing and Normalizing temperature for F316 & SS410

 

Hi My question is what is the suggested annealing temperature for .ASTM A473 Typ410 grade. If your refer the standard of  ASTM A473, Table 2 they have given condition like A,1,2,3.

 

So if it is annealed condition what is the suggested temperature to achieve 223BHN?

 

 

Note: Refer attachment

 

Regards

Suresh

On Saturday, 25 July 2020 at 09:24:17 UTC+5:30 ramink...@gmail.com wrote:

If this is the TDC for raw material as per contract, then you have to find a supplier who can provide it unless you can prove that it would cause problems during fabrication or operation. And that is why I told you to provide us with more details. 

Then you need a qualified engineer who reviews all the documents and is able to get into a discussion with your client to find out whether other alternatives are acceptable or not. I do not think you can do it via online inquiries; you need to hire someone to do this for you... 

 

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

-----------------------------------------------------------

PG-Dip. in Welding Engineering (IWE  AT  0070)

BSc. in Civil Engineering (IUT)

BGAS Painting Inspector

ASNT Level I&II

                        

 

 

 

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 7:45 AM <sathis...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr.Ramin Kadori.

My customer is given TDC for annealing at 955 C but raw material supplier is suggesting that they do only with 850 C. Its not for fabrication, to give raw material into finished component by machining. Required hardness is 160 BHN

As per ASTM A473, Grade/Typ. 410 can be supplied as per the following conditions:




Condition A refers to annealing. (ASTM A473 mentioned with A, 1,2,3,). In this case how to determine the Annealing temperature?


My requirement is to get hardness of 160BHN

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[Ramin Kondori]

410 is a martensitic material which is used for its corrosion resistance, relatively high tensile and hardness properties (due to its martensitic structure).

The 950C annealing temperature refers to the temperature before hardening which means it will be hardened after annealing to hardness ranges between 200-250 (acc to 410 specifications). Of course, higher hardness values are possible but I do not think you can bring it down to 160HB.

Maybe they mean annealing at 950 C then tempering the steel in order to lower the hardness which again, I do not think you can achieve 160HB but do not take my word for it. Maybe you can find 410 steel with 160HB somewhere.

Then it comes the machining requirement. 

As far as I know, 416 is the free machining grade in this group.

Maybe this is what they are looking for...

I guess your client is confused and you need to tell them to revise their technical requirements in this case.

Regards

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

-----------------------------------------------------------

PG-Dip. in Welding Engineering (IWE  AT  0070)

BSc. in Civil Engineering (IUT)

BGAS Painting Inspector

ASNT Level I&II

                        

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[Ramin Kondori]

I'm not sure you can bring the hardness of 410 martensitic steel down to 160HB.

A473 type 410 sheets have a hardness above 200 (nominally 220). 

Let's see if other colleagues have any experience with this.

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

-----------------------------------------------------------

PG-Dip. in Welding Engineering (IWE  AT  0070)

BSc. in Civil Engineering (IUT)

BGAS Painting Inspector

ASNT Level I&II

                        

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[Customer Care]

Hello SURESH,

 

The observations of P. Goswami and Ramin Kondori are correct. For steel as hard as Type 410 SS, reaching a BHN 160 hardness is uphill. It would be a soft steel and it is achieved with an annealing that takes a long time, more than a day.

You have to rely on a specialist, who will assist you at the steelworks or the local supplier to supply you with this steel of hardness 160 BHN.

Attached the isothermal curve for this steel, the F + C zone would correspond to an annealed material, achievable at approximately 700 C and time will be defined by the steelmaker.

 

Ramon Briceno,

Metallurgical Engineer / Oil & Gas.

 

 

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From: SURESH
Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2020 10:35 AM
To: Materials & Welding

Subject: Re: [MW:31191] Re: Annealing and Normalizing temperature for F316 & SS410

 

Hi My question is what is the suggested annealing temperature for .ASTM A473 Typ410 grade. If your refer the standard of  ASTM A473, Table 2 they have given condition like A,1,2,3.

 

So if it is annealed condition what is the suggested temperature to achieve 223BHN?

 

 

Note: Refer attachment

 

Regards

Suresh

On Saturday, 25 July 2020 at 09:24:17 UTC+5:30 ramink...@gmail.com wrote:

If this is the TDC for raw material as per contract, then you have to find a supplier who can provide it unless you can prove that it would cause problems during fabrication or operation. And that is why I told you to provide us with more details. 

Then you need a qualified engineer who reviews all the documents and is able to get into a discussion with your client to find out whether other alternatives are acceptable or not. I do not think you can do it via online inquiries; you need to hire someone to do this for you... 

 

Ramin  Kondori

Sr. QA/QC & Welding Engineer

-----------------------------------------------------------

PG-Dip. in Welding Engineering (IWE  AT  0070)

BSc. in Civil Engineering (IUT)

BGAS Painting Inspector

ASNT Level I&II

                        

 

 

On Fri, Jul 24, 2020 at 7:45 AM <sathis...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear Mr.Ramin Kadori.

My customer is given TDC for annealing at 955 C but raw material supplier is suggesting that they do only with 850 C. Its not for fabrication, to give raw material into finished component by machining. Required hardness is 160 BHN

As per ASTM A473, Grade/Typ. 410 can be supplied as per the following conditions:




Condition A refers to annealing. (ASTM A473 mentioned with A, 1,2,3,). In this case how to determine the Annealing temperature?


My requirement is to get hardness of 160BHN

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[Vanchinath S.A.]

carryout annealing at 850 degC with furnace cooling 30 degC/hr max to achieve hardness in range around 160 BHN. As per spec max hardness permitted in annealed condition is 223 BHN.

quenching at 980 degC followed by tempering at diff temp is for obtaining higher hardness.

vanchinath

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[S.Sathish Kumar]

Dear Experts

Thanks for the valuable feedback. Will check as per the suggestion

Regards

Suresh

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[George Dilintas]

There is no normailzing for ASS

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