HIC test as per NACE MR 0103 of SA 516 Gr.60 plates

[kamal nathan]

hi all,

        pls guide in the below query

 

we have to do a heat exchanger of material SA 516 Gr,60 conforming to NACE MR 0103.

 

we have ordered  for plates supply to a trader and do check test to conform the requirements of NACE MR 0103

 

what are all the test to be done as per NACE MR 0103?

 

Whether we have go for HIC test or not?

 

If we have to do HIC test for plate materails as per NACE where the clause is mentioned?

 

I have gone through NACE MR 0103 and could not interpret exactly whether HIC test is mandatory

 

please put all your comments related to this

 

kamal

[MM Muthu]

Dear Kamal,

Its not an essential requirement to perform HIC as per NACE MR 103. check for any client requirements or design requirements

If you want to perform HIC it should be as per NACE-TM0284, it only state the test method to perform HIC and measure CLR, CTR, CSR, it does not tells about acceptance criteria.

Check the below link which throws light on MR0175 & MR0103, it clearly says "It is extremely important to note that in both MR0175 and 

MR0103 the user is responsible for determining and judging whether the environmental conditions are such that the material requirements of the Standard should be applied. "

http://www.documentation.emersonprocess.com/groups/public/documents/articles_articlesreprints/nace_overview_corrosion2004.pdf

Cheers

MM

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[pgoswami]

Mr. Kamal,

 

I would think that you need to read the Foreword to MR-0103 carefully.I have extracted some text from this document. The summary is as follows:-

1. MR-0103 addresses a wide range of materials, fabrication issues related to SSC in wet H2S environments.
2. Wet H2S environment is dangerous to cause any of the hydrogen related cracking as listed below.
3. It is designer's responsibility to specify if such environment apply for the heat exchanger under fabrication (Usually process media or services are often specified on the drawing). This has to come from the EPC Contractor/or the client.
4. If the intended service is wet H2S then in addition to MR-0103, one has to look into the following specification:-

• NACE International Publication 8X194 (2006 Edition)--Materials and Fabrication Practices for New Pressure Vessels Used in Wet H2S Refinery Service.

• NACE International Publication 8X294 (2003 Edition), Review of Published Literature on Wet H2S Cracking of Steels.

• NACE SP0296-2010-Detection, Repair, and Mitigation of Cracking in Refinery Equipment in Wet H2S Environments

The end answer is if wet H2s service environment is confirmed then "HIC"  test and additional requirements as per 8X194 would be applicable.Otherwise the plates may be ordered straightforward as per MR-0103 requirements.

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist & Consultant

Ontario, Canada.

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net

 

MR-0103- establishes material requirements for resistance to sulfide stress cracking (SSC) in sour refinery process environments, i.e., environments that contain wet hydrogen sulfide (H2S). It is intended to be used by refineries, equipment manufacturers, engineering contractors, and construction contractors.

The term “wet H2S cracking” in refining industry covers a range of damage mechanisms that can occur because of the effects of hydrogen charging in wet H2S refinery or gas plant process environments. One of the types of material damage that can occur as a result of hydrogen charging is SSC of hard weldments and microstructures, which is addressed by this standard. Other types of material damage include hydrogen blistering, hydrogen-induced cracking (HIC), and stress-oriented hydrogen-induced cracking (SOHIC), which are not addressed by this standard.

MR-0103 is based on the good experience gained with NACE MR0175/ISO 15156, but tailored to refinery environments and applications. Other references for this standard are NACE SP0296, NACE Publication 8X194, NACE Publication 8X294, and the refining experience of the task group member

MR-0103-establishes material requirements for resistance to SSC in sour petroleum refining and related processing environments containing H2S either as a gas or dissolved in an aqueous (liquid water) phase with or without the presence of hydrocarbon. This standard does not include and is not intended to include design specifications. Other forms of wet H2S cracking, environmental cracking, corrosion, and other modes offailure, although outside the scope of this standard, should be considered in the design and operation of equipment. Severely corrosive and/or hydrogen charging conditions may lead to failures by mechanisms other than SSC and should be mitigated by methods that are outside the scope of this standard.

.As per MR-0103 It is the user’s responsibility to ensure that a material will be satisfactory in the intended environment.The user may select specific materials for use on the basis of operating conditions that include pressure,temperature, corrosiveness, and fluid properties. A variety of candidate materials may be selected from this standard for any given component

---

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of MM Muthu
Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:25 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [MW:9840] HIC test as per NACE MR 0103 of SA 516 Gr.60 plates

[kamal nathan]

Dear P.Goswami Sir,

                                  Thanks for your brief note,That means what are all the test to be done inorder to comply NACE mr 0103 PLEASE CLARIFY except chemistry control(what are the elements to be controlled),hardess control(what is the max.hardness),heat treatment(what temperature)

kamal

[Ramprasad Chari]

Dear Mr.Kamal,

It may please be noted that all P1G1 materials are considered to be SSC resistant but not HIC resistant.For plates to be considered as HIC resistant,%S has to be less than 0.003%.If you do not get this Sulphur level,with your client's permission,you need to carry out HIC test as per TM0284.Steel used has to be fully killed and fine grained;steel to be made by low sulphur and low phosphorous refining process and shall be vacuum degassed for higher thickness

Regards

Aarpee

[Abhonkar, Abhay (NAR)]

Dear Sirs,

Pl advise how can select the electrodes for SA 333 Gr 6 (P1 and G1) low temp pipe.

I want to prepare WPS / PQR and then also WPQ for our current project.

Have selected the thickness around 5.55 mm (2 “S 80 pipe) for preparing WPS.

 

We followed the process of root run by GTAW and then by SMAW.

 

Regards,

Abhay

Ext 448

 

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[james gerald]

GTAW - ER80SNi1 SMAW - E7018-1   The above can be used to weld A333 Gr.6 Pipe upto MDMT of -45degC J.GERALD JAYAKUMAR 00919344954677   --- On Mon, 2/14/11, Abhonkar, Abhay (NAR) <AAbh...@Dresser-Rand.com> wrote:

Regards, Abhay Ext 448

[Abhonkar, Abhay (NAR)]

Dear Sir,

Many thanks for your information.

For SMAW, have selected the same but for GTAW we are using ER 70S2. Is it right?

Also request you to inform from where I can select the same, as have gone through the ASME sec 2 Part c but not able to succeed.

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Abhay

Ext 448

M +91 9898031162

 

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From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of james gerald

Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 10:47 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com

[james gerald]

Abhay,   It depends on your MDMT(Minimum Design Metal Temperature). I suppose ER70S-2 is suitable for use only upto MDMT of -30degC.   These details can be obtained from ASME Sec.IIC   SFA 5.18 for ER70S2  & SFA 5.28 for ER 80SNi-1   Check the above sections in ASME Sec.IIC

[praveen alavandar]

Dear Abhay,   You can also try ER 70S6, this filler wire has got good amount of Mn for better low temp. toughness and most of the time impact tested at -50 Deg.C, you need to ask your supplier for specific batch where it has been impact tested to -50 Deg.C.   ER 80SNi1 will give you guranteed values, but if your service is sour you need to make sure that the maximum Ni content doesnt exceed 1.0%.   More over, It is recommended you use a full GTAW for welding 2" x 5.54mm pipe instead of combination process (GTAW + SMAW) and most international client specs. recommeds the same.   Regards,   Praveen --- On Mon, 2/14/11, james gerald <gerr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[Krandrk]

Dear Mr.Abhay,

    i hope you got idea about the filler wire and electrode, but as you said you are going to use 2" Sch 80 for WPS and PQR. before finalish that make sure what is your actual job (thickness and diameter range), and also make sure you may have PWHT requirement or not. so that you can make WPS/PQR to cover all your requirements. also 2' pipe will not cover to do all mechanical testing. so also make sure howmany specimans you requrired to all mechanical testing including impact.

 

with regards,

R.Kumar

[jtra...@yahoo.co.uk]

RFUpPlepRrp

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From: james gerald <gerr...@yahoo.com>

Sender: material...@googlegroups.com

Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2011 21:38:33 -0800 (PST)

To: <material...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: RE: [MW:9864] electrode selection of WPS of SA 333 Gr 6 low temp piping, GTAW +SMAW

[Abhonkar, Abhay (NAR)]

Dear Sirs,

Pl guide me on below.

Have completed the WPS / PQR for low temp piping (SA333 Gr 6) by using SMAW and the electrodes is E 7018-1.

 

My low temp pipe is already impact tested and my electrodes also qualify for impact testing.

 

Now after welding, for impact test, whether I have to carry the impact test at all places i.e. for pipes, for welding location and at HAZ area.

OR I have to carry at HAZ area only as my pipe and electrodes are already impact tested.

 

Also request you to advise the ASME section for the above.

 

Regards,

Abhay

Ext 448

 

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[james gerald]

Abhay,   Please give the below detail.   1. What is the Applicable code like ASME Sec.Viii Div.I, ASME B31.3, ASME B31.1 etc.. 2. What is the MDMT (Minimum Design Metal temperature).

[Abhonkar, Abhay (NAR)]

Dear Mr. G Jayakumar

Pl note the below details.

 

1)       Applicable code is ASME sec Viii Dev 1 & B 31.3

2)       Pipe – SA 333 Gr 6 (low temp reading is -45 Deg c)

 

Regards,

Abhay

Ext 448

 

IMPORTANT NOTICE:
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[james gerald]

Abhay,   As per ASME B31.3, A333 Gr.6 base material is exempted from Impact testing upto -50degC. Hence (PQR)Weld and HAZ is exempted from Impact testing if weld consumables were Impact tested at -45degC. ASME B31.3 reference can be found in Table 323.2.2.   It is also the same case for ASME VIII Div.I. Reference : UCS 67(a)(2). J.GERALD JAYAKUMAR 00919344954677

[james gerald]

Abhay,   A correction to my mail below. I suppose A333Gr.6 comes under Curve B of UCS-66 and hence the Weld and HAZ shall be Impact tested as per ASME B31.3 and also ASME Sec.VIII Div.I inaddition to the Base metal and weld consumables being Impact tested.     J.GERALD JAYAKUMAR 00919344954677

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[Elshan Feyzullayev]

Dear Abhay,
 
The ideal consumables for this material are:
 
1. Root and hot is welded with GTAW process using TIG wire ER80S-G (e.g. OK Tigrod 13.26 from ESAB)
2. Rest passes are welded with SMAW process using electrode E7018-G (e.g. OK 48.08 from ESAB)
 
I have run a WPS using these consumables and got an ideal laboratory resluts.
 
best regards,
Elshan.
 

---

Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2011 23:22:55 -0800
From: gerr...@yahoo.com
Subject: RE: [MW:9888] electrode selection of WPS of SA 333 Gr 6 low temp piping, GTAW +SMAW

[james gerald]

Elshan,   You can use 'G' variety of Filler Rods/electrodes since the chemical composition is not fixed and tailor made to your requirements. But one has to specify the A number of electrodes/filler in the PQR as per the consumable certificate. Again whenever one intends to use this PQR/WPS for production joints, each Heat of the particular consumable used shall be ascertained to the same A number as mentioned in the PQR. This can be done by the Welding Engineer certifying the Consumable certificate pertaining to particular A number. J.GERALD JAYAKUMAR 00919344954677   --- On Tue, 2/15/11, Elshan Feyzullayev <elsh...@hotmail.com> wrote:

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[manpreet]

Hi,

I would say Root to be welded with ER70S-3, good engineering practice to weld the root with lesser tensile strength electrode.

Regards
Manpreet Singh



On Tue, 15 Feb 2011 15:51:39 , Elshan Feyzullayev <elsh...@hotmail.com> wrote

[manpreet]

Dear Abhay,

After Welding, Impact testing shall be carried out at Weld and Haz (FL, FL+2) of both side materials, ASME sec viii, UG-84 states Impact locations, Please let me know if you need further clarification.

Regards
Manpreet Singh



On Wed, 16 Feb 2011 10:58:11 , "Abhonkar, Abhay \(NAR\)" <AAbh...@Dresser-Rand.com> wrote

[pgoswami]

Dear Kamal,

 

 

I reviewed my copy of UOP-4-11-4, clause 4.7 specifies that materials for wet H2S service should be killed steel.Use of HIC material for this service must be the additional requirement from the engineering consultant (who's the consultant in this case??).

 

SA 516 Gr 60 is a common grade of carbon steel. Not all heats and chemical compositions are designed to meet the HIC/sour service criteria.

 

SA 516-60/70 normally is not manufactured   in the mill to meet  HIC test criteria as a  regular product.It has to be specially processed to meet  HIC testing criteria. In order to meet testing criteria of  NACE TM-0284, the steel have to be specially manufactured to meet HIC acceptance criteria.

 

NACE have another standard ,TM-0103-2004-Laboratory Test Procedures for Evaluation of SOHIC Resistance of Plate Steels Used in Wet H2S Service. I would think testing to this standard would be extremely special case, and mills may not comply unless plates are purchased in bulk or specially ordered. Hence adhering to TM-0284 would be wise.

 

By default all ASTM/ASME steels have to meet the criteria of A/SA-20. If you go though  SA-20, there are fine guidelines to  control the chemical composition and heat treatments to get the desired HIC resistances, i.e the steel produced would be a lot cleaner. Fabricators may specify this at their discretion. I feel the following clauses of SA-20 directs to plates for sour service/ or with resistance to HIC.

• Clause.5.1,
• 5.3.2,
• 5.3.4,
• 5.3.5,
• 5.3.7 & 5.3.8
• 6.5,6.6
• 7.1.2, 7.1.3
• Table-1
• Table-2, see the UTS vs. Max Carbon Equivalence.For SA-516/60 Max C.E is 0.45( up to 2 in thk)
• In addition the supplementary requirements S-17,S-20,S-21,S-25,S-27 should apply.
• If impact test is required,Table A-1.15 should apply.

 

Hope this would clarify your doubts. While you purchase the plate from the mill you may use this attached data sheet for guidance. However your project technical specification would be mandatory and most appropriate.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist & Consultant

Ontario,Canada.

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net

 

---

From: kamal nathan [mailto:kama...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 11:08 PM
To: pgoswami
Subject: Re: [MW:9852] HIC test as per NACE MR 0103 of SA 516 Gr.60 plates

Dear sir,

            Shell side of the heat exchanger is designed as per UOP spec.4-11 section 4.7 and as per design data is shell side special service HYDROGEN &WET H2S and the material is SA 516 Gr.60 only.

Do u mean that for the above condition we have to do HIC test?

Special notes in drawing specifies that H2S RESISTANT MATERIAL to be provided,so my query is why we need to do HIC test?SA 516 Gr.60 does not fall   under the clause MR 0103 2.1 based on that clause are we not complying the requirements?

Is SA 516 GR.60 is not a H2S RESISTANT MANTERIAL?

 

expecting your view on this,

kamal

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 9:10 AM, pgoswami <pgos...@quickclic.net> wrote: 

 

Dear Kamal,

 

See this product specification on HIC testing.I would send you some more details on HIC testing of plates. MR-0103 addresses only SSCin wet H2S service, the other forms of HIC cracking are not addressed in MR-0103(see below). Meantime can you gather information on the wet H2S service category e.g category-1,2 or 3.

 

I would think from all good purposes getting the plates as HIC tested would be better (though it may cost a little more).

 

I would send you more info after hearing from you.

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist & Consultant

Ontario,Canada.

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net

 

MR-0103-This NACE standard establishes material requirements for resistance to sulfide stress cracking (SSC) in sour refinery process environments, i.e., environments that contain wet hydrogen sulfide (H2S). It is intended to be used by refineries, equipment manufacturers, engineering contractors, and construction contractors.

The term “wet H2S cracking” as used in the refining industry covers a range of damage mechanisms that can occur because of the effects of hydrogen charging in wet H2S refinery or gasplant process environments. One of the types of material damage that can occur as a result of hydrogen charging is SSC of hard weldments and microstructures, which is addressed by this standard. Other types of material damage include hydrogen blistering, hydrogen-induced cracking(HIC), and stress-oriented hydrogen-induced cracking (SOHIC), which are not addressed by this standard

---

From: kamal nathan [mailto:kama...@gmail.com]
Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2011 10:01 PM
To: pgoswami

Subject: Re: [MW:9852] HIC test as per NACE MR 0103 of SA 516 Gr.60 plates

Dear sir,

           Our design specification is given as below

Shell side Special service -Hydrogen & WET H2S

Shell side Material-SA 516 GR 60

NACE MR 0103 is applicable on the shell side of this exchanger.H2S RESISTANT MATERIAL to be provided for shell side of exchanger.

 

So as per this whether we have to do the HIC test for the materials during procuring.if so what type of test to be carried out for base materials and after welding what type of test to be done.

 

I have gone through NACE MR0103 it doesnot refer NACE TM 0284 for testing.

 

On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 10:18 AM, pgoswami <pgos...@quickclic.net> wrote:

Dear Kamal,

 

Were you able to get the correct design requirements, i.e if wet H2S service condition  would exist for the heat exchanger and accordingly in addition to MR-0103, NACE 8X194 ( details as below) would be applicable.

   

OR

 

Only MR-0103 requirements are to be fulfilled  required as per the design specifications.

 

 

Thank

 

Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE

Welding & Metallurgical Specialist & Consultant

Ontario,Canada.

Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,

pgos...@quickclic.net

 

---

From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of kamal nathan
Sent: Sunday, February 13, 2011 10:22 PM

To: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [MW:9852] HIC test as per NACE MR 0103 of SA 516 Gr.60 plates

[shaji prabhakaran]

Unless there is specific client requirement is there, you may use ER70S-2 +E7018.But you have to qualify the procedure at -46 Deg C. Ref ASME B31.3 Table 323.2.2 . But if you use ER70S2, each bath of ER70S2 filler wire shall be impact tested by preparing a weld coupon. Infact it is a head ache and better you can use ER80SNi-1

 

Regards

Shaji

--

[Prasad shinde]

Hello everyone,

one of our client state that material to confirm NACE MR0103, and vessel is in H2S service,

 so what are the requirement (Chemical & Hardness) that  we should follow, also in MR0103 it is mentioned as lab. test as TM0177, so does it mean that every material under MR0103 has to satisfy the test accordining to TM0177? Please uide me

[Sankaran Sp]

Dear Friend,

Please find the detail about NACE MRO 0103 standard as attached. 

Regards,

Sankaran.Sp

welding& matellurgyexpert  

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The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

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