Excess penetration measurment in Radiograph

[sundarrajan kumaraswamy]

  How to measure the excess penetration from the Radiograph of Small bore piping  DWDI superimpose Radiograph shows low density near the inner wall,

what is acceptance criteria for excess penetration as per ASME B 31.3 code, Please clarify the IMAGE CONTRAST GRAPH method .

Regards,

K.Sundar Rajan

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

On my opinion extreme low density at the root area could be an indication of excess penetration.
The most reliable method to measure excess penetration is UT thickness measurement

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor

I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS PIRAEUS - GREECE

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113 /4 /5
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04


sundarrajan kumaraswamy ---18/02/2015 05:04:58---  How to measure the excess penetration from the Radiograph of  Small bore piping  DWDI superimpose

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/materials-welding.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/0ff884e9-b935-45ca-b277-d69e2324f37b%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

This message contains confidential information. To know more, please click on the following link: http://disclaimer.bureauveritas.com

[pkkani...@gmail.com]

As that particular location of the joint is having more deposition hence it will appear brighter than normal area of root , much the brighter means more the protrusion .based on  your experience you can take decisions .

[Jignesh Desai]

There is no direct method to measure the magnitude of excess penetration on small bore closed butt welds. 

 

The possibilities to get conclusion are as below.

 

1. Highly skilled RT film interpretation expert can give proper feedback. 

2. Keep mock up test pieces of welder along accepted RT films and compare these films with the production joint RT films. You may get some input.

3. Boroscope may be used to get an idea of internal penetration of the production weld. For small bore there could be limitation while turning probe/cable/camera tip.

Regds/Jignesh

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-welding+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to materials-welding@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/materials-welding.

To view this discussion on the web visit

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/0ff884e9-b935-45ca-b277-d69e2324f37b%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[james gerald]

First you need to determine what is your requirement.

1. Is it required for small diameter tubes where precise flow is required.

2. Is it required for Big Diameter Piping.

For small diameter tubing, you can try a steel ball run test. For the ID of the tube, determine the excess penetration acceptable and force a steel ball of applicable diameter through the tube. If it passes successfully, accept the Joint or reject simultaneously.

For Big diameter piping, Low density is an indication of the excess penetration in the RT Film. There is no acceptable exact measure of the density using densitometer. 

 

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar
0091-9344954677

---

From: "george....@gr.bureauveritas.com" <george....@gr.bureauveritas.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 12:54 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:22888] Excess penetration measurment in Radiograph

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/OFE195F2A2.463498DD-ONC2257DF0.00288D8A-C2257DF0.0028B0A2%40LocalDomain.

[meisam shokri arfaei]

There is no way to measure exact amount of excess penetration in conventional radiography. The situation will be worse when you use super impose image. 

There is one way to measure the excess penetration when you have a sample radiograph of a step wedge (with small differences in thickness of each step, may be 0.5mm)  with the same exposure parameters and you can find the relation between each thickness to its film density (density gradient). However I think this way is not practical for the conventional radiography works because of such step wedge.

About the ball test I'm not agree with Mr. Gerald, because it is possible that you have two excess in a single seam  and each one of them could be acceptable but aggregation of them will cause don't passing the ball and make the seam reject.

Regards

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/materials-welding.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/b2071a53-eea7-4429-b7fb-798e27220d73%40googlegroups.com.

For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

M. Shokri Arfaei

ISA-ISTS - Metallurgy Lab. Manager

ASNT NDT Level III

International Welding Engineer

Tel.: +98 21 66282127

Fax: +98 21 66282779

Mob.:+98 912 1394023

[LALU RAJENDRAN]

Hi,

My opinion, in DWSI superimpose, you can see the excess penetration clearly. Please refer the attached image.

Please refer table 341.3.2 for acceptance criteria. However as Mr. Jerald mentioned earlier you can go for ball passing test to confirm the ID.

regards,

LALU

LINKS MIDDLE EAST

ABU DHABI, UAE

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/materials-welding.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/0ff884e9-b935-45ca-b277-d69e2324f37b%40googlegroups.com.

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

From ASME Code point of view none of those methods is acceptable

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor

I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS PIRAEUS - GREECE

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113 /4 /5
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

even this method would not be acceptable by an Authorized Inspector

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

Ball passing test and any other method based on a go - no go gauge could be acceptable

[S.Mohammed]

from where to arrange ball?

is there standard size available?

[Nandesh Kumar]

These all are the reasons, evaluation of excess penetration using RT for pipes, is never referenced in any codes.

ವಂದನೆಗಳೊಂದಿಗೆ / Best regards,

Nandesh Kumar Arasappa

P.S. : Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 18/2/15, S.Mohammed <mohd...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [MW:22899] Excess penetration measurment in Radiograph
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 18 February, 2015, 5:45 PM

--
You received this message because you are
subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials &
Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from
this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/materials-welding.
To view this discussion on the web visit

https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/77bec4cf-1331-47d0-acd4-2011d230fc2e%40googlegroups.com.

[sundarrajan kumaraswamy]

how to measure UT thickness measurement on small bore piping welds for excess penetration measurement.

Regards,

K.Sundar Rajan

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/OFE195F2A2.463498DD-ONC2257DF0.00288D8A-C2257DF0.0028B0A2%40LocalDomain.

[sundarrajan kumaraswamy]

Yes, I agree with your Radiography image, but ASME B 31.3 acceptance criteria is only for Visual Inspection not for

Radiography image, moreover ball passing test is not specified in ASME standard,

Any idea about  Image Contrast graph method, Shell DEP has specified this test procedure for measuring Excess penetration,

Regards,

K.Sundar Rajan

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/CAOwU13vQexX%3DOepA_d-7cPvLT2qtovFrg-bMSp2oGCfKDZ_rKA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Nandesh Kumar]

Dear Sundar rajan Kumarswamy,

Please let me know the DEP number...

ವಂದನೆಗಳೊಂದಿಗೆ / Best regards,

Nandesh Kumar Arasappa

P.S. : Please don't print this e-mail unless you really need to.

--------------------------------------------

On Wed, 18/2/15, sundarrajan kumaraswamy <ksra...@gmail.com> wrote:

Subject: Re: [MW:22905] Excess penetration measurment in Radiograph
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 18 February, 2015, 11:25 PM

Yes, I agree with your Radiography
image, but ASME B 31.3 acceptance criteria is only for

Visual Inspection not forRadiography image,

moreover ball passing test is not specified in ASME
standard,
Any idea
about  Image Contrast graph method, Shell DEP has specified
this test procedure for measuring Excess penetration,

Regards,
K.Sundar Rajan
On 18 February 2015 at
14:39, LALU RAJENDRAN <lal...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hi,
My opinion, in DWSI
superimpose, you can see the excess penetration clearly.
Please refer the attached image.
Please refer table 341.3.2 for
acceptance criteria. However as Mr. Jerald mentioned earlier
you can go for ball passing test to confirm the
ID.

regards,LALULINKS MIDDLE EASTABU DHABI, UAE

On
Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 12:19 AM, sundarrajan kumaraswamy <ksra...@gmail.com>
wrote:
  How to measure the excess
penetration from the Radiograph of Small bore piping 
DWDI superimpose Radiograph shows low density near the inner

wall,what is acceptance criteria for excess

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/CAALHs9OvDJrY4mr-gHTH0U0GscJ4cvV5bXRDG87qLdSWtixGBA%40mail.gmail.com.

[pkkani...@gmail.com]

Dear Sundar ,

I believe all have given their input and the good one is to do UT or you can go for gauge pigging which could help u to understand if it is excess or not.

Regards

Pratish 

On Wednesday, February 18, 2015 at 1:49:32 AM UTC+5:30, sundarrajan kumaraswamy wrote:

[sundarrajan kumaraswamy]

Dear Pratish,

UT measurement on small bore piping is very difficult , more over probe seating on weld is impossible

so please suggest how to measure weld excess penetration by UT

Any idea about Image Contrast Graph,

Regards,

K.Sundar Rajan

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/materials-welding.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/aaa05311-73f1-44c9-8462-7d967518a773%40googlegroups.com.

[Prashun Kumar]

Excess penentration is measured edge of the joint to base metal in superimposed method by scale.

 

Regards,

 

Prashun

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/CAALHs9N6BQqbrC7-pHzxC504rMtBncmT-0A20N_rk14Eiz-WOQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[sundarrajan kumaraswamy]

Any idea about Image Contract Graph, In Shell Dep mentioned about excess penetration measurement by Image contrast graph,

Regards,

K.Sundar Rajan

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/CAM7Um4BVunqBjQ6WnT_jeLC2Hk1207nK7gsH4YZLXsB3QZTB%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com.