3 Cycle PWHT requirements acc.to ASME

[K K]

Dear All,

Please describe to me regarding 3 cycle PWHT requirements as per ASME.

If my PQR tested with two coupons where I required one more test coupon and additional one more for repair.

Please explain to me in detail and related to mechanical testing for PWHT.

What is the meaning of this paragraph - **an additional one PWHT cycle shall be incorporated to simulate field repair or modification.**

Thanks and Regards

Kiran

[Peter Soloman]

Dear Kiran,

Once PWHT competed for joints due to modification cut/reweld or repair re PWHT required that particular joints.

it is mention in the procedure is enough to do the job. This you can mention in your weld repair procedure.

Regards,

PETER SOLOMAN

+971 33663119

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[K K]

Thanks for your support.

Regarding PWHT of 3 cycles.

Below I have mentioned my PQR ranges for PWHT.

POST WELD HEAT TREATMENT( QW-407)

TEMPERATURE RANGE 630 ±10° C

SOAKING PERIOD 190Min

HEATING RATE 190°C/Hours Max

COOLING RATE 190°C/Hours Max.

As per the above range, it's qualified 3 cycles, but how? and for 3 Cycles PWHT where I required test coupons? how many coupons tests shall I have conduct?

Please clarify my above query in detail with code.

Thanks once again.

Kiran

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020 at 11:43:19 AM UTC+5:30, petervsoloman wrote:

Dear Kiran,

Once PWHT competed for joints due to modification cut/reweld or repair re PWHT required that particular joints.

it is mention in the procedure is enough to do the job. This you can mention in your weld repair procedure.

Regards,

PETER SOLOMAN

+971 33663119

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 7:32 AM K K <kara...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear All,

Please describe to me regarding 3 cycle PWHT requirements as per ASME.

If my PQR tested with two coupons where I required one more test coupon and additional one more for repair.

Please explain to me in detail and related to mechanical testing for PWHT.

What is the meaning of this paragraph - **an additional one PWHT cycle shall be incorporated to simulate field repair or modification.**

Thanks and Regards

Kiran

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[K K]

Dear All,

Expertise can you please see my query, Can I get the solution to the below query.

How to Calculate 3 cycle PWHT, What are the requirements? please explain to me in detail.

What are the initial requirements and what are mechanical and hardness requirements? 

Please explain to me in detail with a step vise.

I hope i will get a good response from the Materials & Welding team and from Expertise.

Thanks

Kiran

[MW]

testing requirements are same as when you qualify a new PQR.

only additional is that test coupon will be subjected to heat treatment 3 times (3 cycles)

[K K]

Dear Sir, 

Please explain to me in detail, from begins regarding PWHT and Time according to ASME requirements for 3 cyclesPWHT. 

[james gerald]

Is the Heat Treatment required for Plates or for the Welds.

If it is for the Plates during the procurement stage, then you need to follow the same Heat Treatment simulating the exact condition it undergoes.

1. Initial Heat Treatment for the Plates will be the first cycle.

2. PWHT after welding will be the second cycle

3. Taking into account the Repair after PWHT will be the 3rd cycle.

You can simulate the same condition on one coupon and undergo the test as per Material standard.

If it is for Welds, then you can apply PWHT in one cycle as the snap short  below.

One Coupon and the testing requirements as per ASME Sec.IX and applicable specifications.

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar

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[Kiran Ekbote]

Sir, 

  Thanks for your reply,   

Heat Treatment required for the Weld.

can you describe more on this topic, regarding Mechanical test and hardness test?

What is the time required for one cycle and for 3 cycles?

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KIRAN

[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

QW 407.2. is it not applicable to impact requirements. 

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[james gerald]

Please provide the ASME Code reference where the 3 cycle PWHT is specified to understand your exact requirement.

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar

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[José Juan Jiménez Alejandro]

I have never seen in the ASME Code (Section I and VIII Div. 1) that mentions anything about three cycles of a PWHT, the PWHT tables in these two ASME sections are very clear in terms of materials, times and temperatures.

Regards!.

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Ing. José Juan Jiménez Alejandro

Independent Consultant in Parts

and Pressure Equipment

SSI-TPI

Móvil +52 1 812 352 4606

Skype: jjjimeneza

[HENNING John]

There is no requirement within ASME Section I or Section VIII to perform a simulated PWHT for three cycles.  This a common requirement in petro-chemical specifications and, occasionally, other customer specifications.

 

See Section VIII, Division 1, UCS-85, “Heat Treatment of Test Specimens” for base metal simulated heat treatment requirements.  This is typically a single cycle mimicking the production heat treatment.

 

There is no comparable requirement in ASME Section I.

 

Hope this helps.  Code is fun.

 

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

This is general engineering practice ( Indian boiler regulation required simulated heat treatment with 2or3 cycle to ensure the minimum it's) to ensure the mechanical properties after one or two times repair after heattreament of the product. Suppose after heattreament of product, while doing NDT ( especially alloy steel, heavy wall) found some defects. After repairs, if depth is more than allowed, u have to go again for heat treatment. Repeated cycle will reduce the mechanical properties.  While doing PQR, u have to envisage the expected cycle of repair work. If u expect 2or3, u have to extend the soaking time accordingly and base metal also. 

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[ishwar kumar]

Dear Kiran

This requirement in ASME/AWS D1.1 is a supplementary essential variable and required when the construction code requires the component to be impact tested.

Generally we have the PQR PWHT time at temperature held long enough to cover 2 heat treat cycles of the thickest material to be welded. That way if we need to have a second heat treat cycle for any reason e.g weld repairs the welds are qualified. This is cheaper than having to re-qualify.

PQR must have the hold time so that it is at least 80% of the hold times used for production.  If the production welding will need 2 hours of hold time the PQR must have 80% of 2 hours = .8 x 2 = 1.6 hours. The PQR must also be held at temperature for the construction code minimum based on weld thickness.

Thanks & Regards

Ishwar Kumar

IWE|| CSWIP3.1|| LSSGB||NDT|| ISO9001 LA

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[José Juan Jiménez Alejandro]

Even ASME for some P numbers (section I and VIII Div. 1) allows you to make repairs with solder after the PWHT without having to repeat the PWHT, but it is only for some very specific P numbers with also very specific metal filler, that is  very little known but it is in the ASME code.

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

Any ref in code

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[Karthik]

UCS-56 (f)

Thanks& Regards,

 

(Karthik)

Karthikeyan.S

M: +66-892512282

E-mail : karthi...@yahoo.com

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[K K]

Thanks all for your response to my query.

These requirements as per our contractor specification.

But I need clarification about normal PWHT ( As per B31.3 ) and 3 cycles PWHT, for time calculation.

Thanks once again.

[Sourav Bohrays]

dear you are wrong

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[Sourav Bohrays]

dear i dont think so above mention time calculation is ryt

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[Sourav Bohrays]

dnt mix 31.3 with asme ..these all point belongs to asme only dnt apply to b31.3  check before use

On Mon, 29 Jun 2020, 6:51 pm K K, <kara...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Sourav Bohrays]

this is not code requirment

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[Sourav Bohrays]

read code properly multiple cycle is mention there but with interpretation

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[Sourav Bohrays]

mr kiran all ready you got your answer why you are not trying to understand creating new misunderstanding again n again.

see your requirment is not requirment of Asme its requirment of client on the basis of their experience client simply wants to know after doing heat treatment  3 times what property they are getting what is change in behaviour of material,weld  simply is there increase or decrease in prop he wants to know for that you also look at your tdc or mtc client asked for simulated plate also.

now lets talk about welding-

qw407.2 is only and only applies when your base metal / weld metal is not exempted from impact test.what code said in this clause

 heating,colling rate, time, temp is should be same as of wps during soaking period.

secondly if you have a any old wps which has same rate of heating,colling ,temp and wps time is 80% of time required in pwht for vessel.

now simply calculate time for single pqr what ever time you will get multiply it by 3 you will get total time for 3 cycle than take coupon heat it for a time required for 3 cycle no need of separte pqr for 3 cycle u can use 1 pqr and do testing on it .

this is simple and clear now for you

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[K K]

Thanks, Sourav.

And thanks for your support, you have clarified my doubt.

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.

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KIRAN

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