Re: [MW:17817] Welding and cladding SA-516 Gr. 60 + AISI 410S
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Ramin Kondori
May 28, 2013, 2:42:46 AM5/28/13
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Dear Branko:
Depositing AISI 410S on A516 will produce a martensitic weld overlay which is prone to cracking even during welding. There Are two solutions:
Depositing AISI 410S on A516 will produce a martensitic weld overlay which is prone to cracking even during welding. There Are two solutions:
- Using a buffer layer (intermediate layer) of E309L or even E310L on A516 and then Depositing 410S
- Applying preheat of min 250-300 C which makes it a very hard job though it may seem less expensive
In
first scenario, you do not need any preheat but I do not recommend
using SAW for 410S layer since it may melt through the buffer layer and
reach A516 which maybe, maybe causes problems. You can use GMAW
with Ar+2%o2 or Ar+3%CO2. Do not forget the Preheat...
This way your weld overlay will be thicker than 3 mm and you should weld a PQR coupon to make sure you have 3mm of 410 weld layer "over" the buffer layer. Maybe you'll have to deposit one buffer (309L or 310L) and 2 layers of 410S. Try using Pulsed GMAW to get the results with depositing one layer.
One of our colleagues have successfully deposited one layer of 410 weld overlay on A516 using Pulsed-MIG (Preheat is essential). It's because Pulsed-MIG has less dilution and you may achieve required results in one layer.
For PQR, you need 4 side bend tests, chemical analysis on the surface of overlay and 3-4mm below the surface, and hardness test (on the surface).
Discuss these issues with your client before proceeding.
On Mon, May 27, 2013 at 4:37 PM, Branko Ferencak <bran...@gmail.com> wrote:
I have shell 20mm thick ( SA-516 Gr, 60 ) and there must be cladd AISI 410S 3mmCould anybody tell me which filler i can use, for SAW and GMAW?--GMAW i planning use for flanges and tubesheets ( after i overlay tubesheet - what is procedure for welding tube to tubesheet? )Also PWHT has been asked by customer after overlay.
Can anybody tell the effect of PWHT on SS 410S overlay?
What will be the the safe range of temperature of PWHT? ( Also recommended temperatures and times, holding cooling...)Best regards,Branko Ferencak
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KRR ENGG
May 28, 2013, 12:16:44 AM5/28/13
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When your shell is SS, tubesheet has to be solid ss; cladded tubesheet will not be effective. Check the design. Anyway recommended tubesheet is explosion bonded material. It is very tricky to weld tubes to tubesheet (with weld overlay)and that too with PWHT; cracking is a big concern.
Prakash Hegde
May 28, 2013, 12:40:36 PM5/28/13
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Generaly tube sheet is being explosion boded with 410 S on CS and tube to tube sheet welding is carried with 309L/309MoL metallrgy and PWHT to be carried with respect to P1 material i.e. at 600-610C (donot increase the temp beyond 640C)
It is prefered to weld T/T sht joint by GTAW
Regards
|
kannayeram gnanapandithan
May 29, 2013, 1:29:21 AM5/29/13
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SS 410S is not martensitic
On 5/28/13, Ramin Kondori <ramink...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Dear Branko:*
> *Sr. QA/QC Engineer
> *
> *SINOPEC*
On 5/28/13, Ramin Kondori <ramink...@gmail.com> wrote:
> *Dear Branko:*
>
> Depositing AISI 410S on A516 will produce a martensitic weld overlay which
> is prone to cracking even during welding. There Are two solutions:
>
> 1. Using a buffer layer (intermediate layer) of E309L or even E310L on
> Depositing AISI 410S on A516 will produce a martensitic weld overlay which
> is prone to cracking even during welding. There Are two solutions:
>
> A516 and then Depositing 410S
> 2. Applying preheat of min 250-300 C which makes it a very hard job
> though it may seem less expensive
>
> In first scenario, you do not need any preheat but I do not recommend using
> SAW for 410S layer since it may melt through the buffer layer and reach
> A516 which maybe, maybe causes problems. You can use GMAW with Ar+2%o2 or
> Ar+3%CO2. Do not forget the Preheat...
>
> This way your weld overlay will be thicker than 3 mm and you should weld a
> PQR coupon to make sure you have 3mm of 410 weld layer "over" the buffer
> layer. Maybe you'll have to deposit one buffer (309L or 310L) and 2 layers
> of 410S. Try using Pulsed GMAW to get the results with depositing one
> layer.
>
> One of our colleagues have successfully deposited one layer of 410 weld
> overlay on A516 using Pulsed-MIG (Preheat is essential). It's because
> Pulsed-MIG has less dilution and you may achieve required results in one
> layer.
>
> For PQR, you need 4 side bend tests, chemical analysis on the surface of
> overlay and 3-4mm below the surface, and hardness test (on the surface).
>
> Discuss these issues with your client before proceeding.
> Good Luck
> *Ramin Kondori*
>
> In first scenario, you do not need any preheat but I do not recommend using
> SAW for 410S layer since it may melt through the buffer layer and reach
> A516 which maybe, maybe causes problems. You can use GMAW with Ar+2%o2 or
> Ar+3%CO2. Do not forget the Preheat...
>
> This way your weld overlay will be thicker than 3 mm and you should weld a
> PQR coupon to make sure you have 3mm of 410 weld layer "over" the buffer
> layer. Maybe you'll have to deposit one buffer (309L or 310L) and 2 layers
> of 410S. Try using Pulsed GMAW to get the results with depositing one
> layer.
>
> One of our colleagues have successfully deposited one layer of 410 weld
> overlay on A516 using Pulsed-MIG (Preheat is essential). It's because
> Pulsed-MIG has less dilution and you may achieve required results in one
> layer.
>
> For PQR, you need 4 side bend tests, chemical analysis on the surface of
> overlay and 3-4mm below the surface, and hardness test (on the surface).
>
> Discuss these issues with your client before proceeding.
> Good Luck
> *Sr. QA/QC Engineer
> *
> *SINOPEC*
Ramin Kondori
May 29, 2013, 4:49:27 AM5/29/13
to material...@googlegroups.com
410 has 0.15% C and 410 has 0.08% but When deposited on CS, it is very likely for the weld metal to become martensitic more than 30% which is unacceptable to some specifications (some accept martensite up to 50%). I believed the same and I did not know that 410S weld may become martensitic until I experienced it during an overlay job (by SAW). That's why we had to choose a low heat input process. We selected Pulsed MIG, literally used the same filler metal and it worked. We managed to achieve the desirable overlay with in one layer.
I need 2 weeks to get home and scan/send you the PQR and test results.
c sridhar
May 29, 2013, 10:48:42 AM5/29/13
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If you explore in the commercial market, you may get 410S or any other SS, hard facing and also made to order
(mostly made in Europe, Australia, and likewise) 0verlay sheets/plates in various lengths and thicknesses including
3 mm thick.
You can join the them directly on the base using E 309L / ER 309L type consumables and also may help to avoid
PWHT if needed.
Otherwise, you have to follow conventional methods only.
Sridhar.
From: Prakash Hegde <pb.h...@yahoo.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 28 May 2013 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:17825] RE: 17817] Welding and cladding SA-516 Gr. 60 + AISI 410S
c.no...@vipco-thai.com
May 30, 2013, 8:20:35 AM5/30/13
to material...@googlegroups.com
My memory is stainless steel grade 410 is martensitic and suffix S is
related to welding issue.
Regards,
C.Nopadon
related to welding issue.
Regards,
C.Nopadon
kannayeram gnanapandithan
May 31, 2013, 4:58:41 AM5/31/13
to material...@googlegroups.com
S stands for low carbon,,,,,, pl see ASME sec 9 materials Pno for understanding
Pandithan
Welding Consultant
Pandithan
Welding Consultant
Ramin Kondori
May 31, 2013, 5:24:27 AM5/31/13
to material...@googlegroups.com
410S itself is not martensite but this is when you have a weld metal
which is only consisted of 410S not mixture of carbon steel and
410S...
Dilution will occur and chemical analysis of the weld will be totally
different than 410S.
When 410S is deposited on carbon steels, depending on the carbon
content of the substrate, the resulted weld metal will be something
new rather than 410S...
Cr wil be around 6-8% and There will be martensite in resulted weld
metal. This martensite, if exceeds certain levels will be problematic
and should be avoided. Some references recommend a maximum of 30%
martensite in the weld metal microstructure and some allow up to 50%
martensite in the microstructure. This is only achievable by
preheat...
One safe method is to use a buffer layer such as 309L or 310 followed
by a low heat input process like Pulsed-MIG for depositing the 410 (or
410S if it is available) layer to avoid a layer which is over-alloyed
by Cr...
Depending on the client, this becomes a difficult task as the client
does not accept variations in Cr levels in top layer of overlay. So
clear every thing with the client or inspector before proceeding.
Regards
Ramin Kondori
which is only consisted of 410S not mixture of carbon steel and
410S...
Dilution will occur and chemical analysis of the weld will be totally
different than 410S.
When 410S is deposited on carbon steels, depending on the carbon
content of the substrate, the resulted weld metal will be something
new rather than 410S...
Cr wil be around 6-8% and There will be martensite in resulted weld
metal. This martensite, if exceeds certain levels will be problematic
and should be avoided. Some references recommend a maximum of 30%
martensite in the weld metal microstructure and some allow up to 50%
martensite in the microstructure. This is only achievable by
preheat...
One safe method is to use a buffer layer such as 309L or 310 followed
by a low heat input process like Pulsed-MIG for depositing the 410 (or
410S if it is available) layer to avoid a layer which is over-alloyed
by Cr...
Depending on the client, this becomes a difficult task as the client
does not accept variations in Cr levels in top layer of overlay. So
clear every thing with the client or inspector before proceeding.
Regards
Ramin Kondori
Prakash Hegde
May 31, 2013, 11:07:17 AM5/31/13
to material...@googlegroups.com
Hi!
I would like to share my experience with 410S overlay on CS
i) If you try to overlay 410S/410 chemistry on Cs, It does not pass in bend during bend test as per ASME sec IX (It cracks) if client is very stringent and he requires only 410S chemistry in such case you require to take waiver for Bend test which is job specific
You can try with 410 consumable with low C% less than 0.04 (Which is very difficult to get( Some time even 309MoL/309L barrier with subsequent layer by 410 chemistry being used)
ii) Some time you may use 410 Ni Mo to get satisfactory bend test results However weld chemistry will have Ni ,Mo but major element will of Cr which will be in the range of 410
iii) However my experience is a) ",client accepts the 309L/309MoL for 410 clad restoration and b) for high temp service (Like coke drum)client accepts the NiCrFe3 or NiCrMo3 chemistry where there is no problem of crack during bend test
In such case PWHT temp governs as per UCS56 of ASME Sec VIII
Regards
Hegde P.B.
--- On Fri, 31/5/13, Ramin Kondori <raminkondori if clie@gmail.c would like tostry shareIom> wrote:s
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Caro
Apr 1, 2020, 11:26:40 AM4/1/20
to Materials & Welding
Hello,
thanks in advance,
I have the same case, A516gr60 +410S, Which filler metal is recommended for FCAW process?
thanks in advance,
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Behzad Mohammadi
Apr 1, 2020, 11:02:47 PM4/1/20
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Please see API 582
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Kannayeram Gnanapandithan
Apr 2, 2020, 1:13:45 AM4/2/20
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309
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Kannayeram Gnanapandithan
Apr 2, 2020, 1:13:45 AM4/2/20
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Aisi 410S is not martensitic SS. It is a Ferritic SS
On Wed, 1 Apr 2020 8:56 pm Caro, <carolina...@gmail.com> wrote:
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