Orifice Flange and run pipe mismatch

[Anthony Dalisay]

Dear Experts,

Greetings to all of you.

We got a situation in the project where the following observation has been found.

1. pipe - CS 10" dia.

2. orifice flange SS - 10" dia. - Flange has a long protrusion of the neck towards the bevel end that gets inside the pipe. see attached picture - red mark is where the pipe ends landed.

The joint has been welded with the result as shown in the picture below.

The decision is to weld the pipe despite the overlap. The production proceeded the welding activity without trimming the flange end (by machining or grinding as we suggested) to meet the same surface level of the run pipe. After welding the joint went thru RT and passed the test. 

We consulted the design engineer for this reason but no concrete decision was made so the client production team gave final disposition to proceed with welding.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter. What do you think? what would be your recommendation? what problem do you think this would bring in the plant operation? did you ever encounter the same issue before? if so, what did you do? if not, what would you have done differently?

Best Regards,

Anthony D. Dalisay

Mobile # +63 9610917840

[Jenish Mistry]

Dear sir,

I don't think your welding procedure Qualified for such kind of welding groove design.

I think it will always be doubt on joint Integrity .

I think you should try mock up as same as welded above mentioned joint & go for Destructive test as per Client specification & Construction Code . 

--
https://materials-welding.blogspot.com/
https://www.linkedin.com/groups/122787
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/CALBzUB%2BstgDQqBKj%2BFgKQPhEWLfwxdyAZdA6JrmnFVPySjxocA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Anthony Dalisay]

Dear Jenish,

That is actually a good point having no procedure not qualified for the grove in actuality. 

Also, during in service I have a doubt that this will have effect on the fluid flow and the issue will raise later on itself.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/CADXbd_cwS79GmRjJwZociwoOmjZU_nAVNOzsbzgOwW-WdnJAGA%40mail.gmail.com.

--

​Best Regards,

Anthony D. Dalisay

Welding Inspector Level II - CSWIP 3.1

ASNT-SNT-TC-1A Level II (PT,MT,UT)

ISO 9001:2015 Internal Auditor

Mobile # +63 9610917840

[Sham Shahabuddin -Welding Inspector, HANBO]

Dear Sir,

As Mr. Jenish said the strength of the joint need to be verified using mechanical test for the integrity of the joint as Quality wise the joint is passed in RT.

Regards 

Sham Shahabuddin 

--

[Chip Frizzell]

What is the wall thickness/schedule of the pipe?

From the picture, it seems that the flange is 8” XXH bore and the pipe is 10”. 

There should be no way that a 10” pipe would fit over a 10” flange as you describe. 

Verify size of flange and verify the pressure MAWP of the system. 

Thanks,

Chip Frizzell 

Construction Manager 

CWI / ASNT NDT LVL III / CRI / NACE CIP LVL 2-Certified

Chipfr...@gmail.com

CELL: 520-510-8093

Price is what you pay-value is what you get. 

Seldom does the lowest price result in the best value!

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 21, 2022, at 10:56 PM, Anthony Dalisay <anthony...@gmail.com> wrote:



Dear Experts,

Greetings to all of you.

We got a situation in the project where the following observation has been found.

1. pipe - CS 10" dia.

2. orifice flange SS - 10" dia. - Flange has a long protrusion of the neck towards the bevel end that gets inside the pipe. see attached picture - red mark is where the pipe ends landed.

<image.png>

<image.png>

The joint has been welded with the result as shown in the picture below.

<image.png>

The decision is to weld the pipe despite the overlap. The production proceeded the welding activity without trimming the flange end (by machining or grinding as we suggested) to meet the same surface level of the run pipe. After welding the joint went thru RT and passed the test. 

We consulted the design engineer for this reason but no concrete decision was made so the client production team gave final disposition to proceed with welding.

I would appreciate your thoughts on this matter. What do you think? what would be your recommendation? what problem do you think this would bring in the plant operation? did you ever encounter the same issue before? if so, what did you do? if not, what would you have done differently?

Best Regards,

Anthony D. Dalisay

Mobile # +63 9610917840

--

[M.Sathiya Narayanan]

Hi dear

This shows people's and quality systems to be evaluated and improved, 

Responsibility matrix should be aligned with quality systems

For the findings 

In general this kind of joint not acceptable because of welding, weld joint NDT, stress, corrosion, piping, instrumentation point of view also 

for the worst condition 

Below teams shall be involved to discussed about how to over come 

Welding

Piping

Instrumentation

Corrosion

Stress 

Regards

Sathiyanarayanan

--

[AGUSTIN JIMENEZ]

I recommend you machine the neck of the flange and take it to the same size, the neck will be shorter but thicker.

Atentamente

Agustin Jimenéz

+52 492 145 1918

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/CAJzo-kuF0L6A-Ji6BJaQ-aAB4CV_%2BAYdvYF6cHWnnBhmqcyCDA%40mail.gmail.com.

[G Gughan]

Dear Sirs,

                   The joint type is incorrect. Being an orifice flange for the location, the required flow should be attained per the design.  This type of joint may bring a pressure drop in that particular section. If the pipe size is correct, you are permitted to machine the length of the hub to fit. Ensure minimum flow for the location.

Thanks,

Kind Regards,

G. Gughan

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/3507092.3186192.1669181205792%40mail.yahoo.com.

[maheshQAQC]

Dear Anthony D. Dalisay,

My Assumption/understanding is  similar to Chip Frizzell, and no such thing that same size pipe and fitting  will be as shown in picture unless unequal.

pls re verify the pipe sizes and if unequal fitting are used propose reducing fitting such as reducer and get approval from engineering dept to avoid all welding related issues during routine maintenance.

thanks

Mahesh