P-91 to SS Welding

[pradip kumar Sil]

Dear Expert,

We have to weld P-91 Material to 316 (SS) material with ERNiCr-3 filler Wire Socket Weld.

My question is needs to do buttering  the P-91 material if required how much layer we Need ?

During  & After buttering needs to conduct preheating & Post heating ?

During & after welding socket weld  only P-91 side or both side  we will conduct preheating +post heating + PWHT

Thanks in advance.

Regards

[dili...@gmail.com]

If your Code is ASME you need to PWHT whatever the thickness is. So the best practice is to do buttering and then PWHT. Once PWHT completed you weld to 316. 

The thickness of the buttering should be such that the haz of the second weld does not fall on P91. I would suggest 5 mm

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From: pradip kumar Sil Sent: Δευτέρα, 8 Φεβρουαρίου 2016 - 14:56 To: materials-welding Reply To: material...@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:24251] P-91 to SS Welding

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[pradip kumar Sil]

Dear Sir,

Thanks in advance.

As per my understanding :

 We will do buttering the P-91 pipe around 5 mm with PRE HEAT + POST HEAT +PWHT by  filler wire ERNiCr-3. Afterwards fit-up will be done with SS pipe & continue welding without preheating +postheating +pwht.

Correct me if i am wrong.

Regards,

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

u can use ER NiCr3 /ENiCrFe2 direct welding  with preheat and pwht

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

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[pradip kumar Sil]

 My question is both side of weldment we will do preheat & pwht ( i.e  Stainless steel side & P-91 Side )

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

do preheat only for P91 and carry out PWHT for both

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

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[pradip kumar Sil]

If we do PWHT on SS side, will it effect any metallurgical problem.

On Thu, Feb 11, 2016 at 4:35 PM, pradip kumar Sil <prad...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks

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[Rems Okonkwo]

Depending on the type of heat treatment you intend to do. But the truth is that for this dissimilar material, there is no heat treat you will do without destroying one of the materials.

The heat treatment recommended for P91 will have an adverse effect on the metallurgy of the SS and perculiarity is depended upon the type of SS and also the heat treatment recommended for SS will also have an adverse effect on the P91 material. There is lot of write up on this topic in this group and it can no longer be over flogged. The answer given earlier is the best practice.

Regards.

Rems

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[rems.okonkwo]

Yes that's the correct procedure. Buttering on P91. Preheating/Post heating/ PWHT. Prepare and weld to SS without any form of heat treatment

Rems

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[nawab ali bhatti]

Dear Experts

Please   share your best  experience  with reference of international codes

Pipe Material  P22, A335 (Cr2.25 and Mo 1), Shoe support to be welded direct with pressure parts.(Pipe material thickness 33 mm, Operating Temperature 500 Centigrade  and pressure 106 bar)

 

My question,   Is  PWHT require for shoe supports  Or Not???

                     Shoe support plate thickness is 12 mm and throat thickness is 8 mm, Preheating is perform as WPS.

NA Bhatti

00966 593530001

                     

[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

what is application and ss material grade. 

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

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[dili...@gmail.com]

In your case the governing thickness is that of the fillet ‎weld of the shoe to the pipe weld.

Min. Thickness for which PWHT is required depends on design and construction Code

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From: 'nawab ali bhatti' via Materials & Welding Sent: Παρασκευή, 12 Φεβρουαρίου 2016 - 07:12 To: material...@googlegroups.com Reply To: material...@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:24268] Alloy Material P22, A335 (Cr2.25 and Mo 1)

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[dili...@gmail.com]

Sensitization (precipitation of Cr carbides)

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From: pradip kumar Sil Sent: Πέμπτη, 11 Φεβρουαρίου 2016 - 13:43

To: materials-welding Reply To: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [MW:24265] P-91 to SS Welding

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[dili...@gmail.com]

No way you risk sensitization of 316

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From: Kannayeram Gnanapandithan Sent: Πέμπτη, 11 Φεβρουαρίου 2016 - 12:15

To: materials-welding Reply To: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [MW:24262] P-91 to SS Welding

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[c sridhar]

you could use a “B2” filler metal. The next issue in filler metal selection is the use of post weld stress 

relief which is not mentioned. If the weld is going to be subjected to a post weld stress relief then use 

an ER80S-B2 and if there will be no post weld stress relief you should consider ER70S-B2L.

 

Regards,
C Sridhar.
Technical Adviser - Welding,
for Alsta Pristine Engineering Private Limited,. Bangalore
( SS, AL fabricators & A venture of Advance Eng. Training & Inspection Services). Chennai,

Mobile nos: 0 94449 71097,

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From: 'nawab ali bhatti' via Materials & Welding <material...@googlegroups.com>
To: "material...@googlegroups.com" <material...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, 11 February 2016 8:09 PM
Subject: [MW:24268] Alloy Material P22, A335 (Cr2.25 and Mo 1)

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[Biplab Pal]

Dear Bhatti,

First you tell me what is the material you have selected to use as a support and what is the thickness for the support material.

If your WPS is qualified with PWHT you have to do the PWHT.

If PWHT is service requirement you have to do PWHT.

Other cases you have to follow construction code (unless otherwise specified in client std/specification).

Regards

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Thanks & Regards
Biplab Pal
Welding Inspector

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[nawab ali bhatti]

Dear Sir

Thanks for reply

Shoe support material is P22 / A335 thickness 12 mm and WPS qualified with PWHT 

Best Regards

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From: 'Biplab Pal' via Materials & Welding <material...@googlegroups.com>
To: materials-welding <material...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 13, 2016 1:47 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:24279] Alloy Material P22, A335 (Cr2.25 and Mo 1)

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[Biplab Pal]

Dear Bhatti,

Your actual answer is yes. You have to do PWHT as your WPS is qualifies with PWHT (essential variable). 

You have an option:

You can avoid PWHT.............if your construction code is ASME B 31.3.

1st you have to qualify an WPS without PWHT.

2nd: for production weld you have to do recommended preheat as per WPS.

And please make sure the piping service does not fall under the following services: (Check your Piping Material Specification)

a. NaOH

b. MEA

c. DGA

d. ADIP

e. Hydrogen

f. DEA

g. MDEA

h. Boiler Deaerator.

i. Sour

If your service falls under the above services you have to do PWHT for your cases.

Regards

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

what is application , process or power

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

what is fillet size???

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

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[George Dilintas]

the final welding is better to do with grade 309 filler metal (in order to avoid low FN and thus hot cracking)

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Georgios Dilintas

A.I.S, A.N.I, IRCA Lead Auditor

Welding, Stress Analysis, Corrosion, QA/QC, Failure Analysis

[George Dilintas]

Correct, the issue is to avoid heating SS (risk of sensitization)

2016-02-11 11:08 GMT+02:00 pradip kumar Sil <prad...@gmail.com>:

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[pradip kumar Sil]

Power  Plant

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[Bala Nechur]

Hello Expert,

 

How ever a WPS to be qualified to implement the process.

 

Bala Nechur,

Corporate QA/QC Manager

Phoenix Industrial

Email: bala....@phoenixindustrial.ca

www.phoenixindustrial.ca

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From: material...@googlegroups.com [material...@googlegroups.com] on behalf of George Dilintas [dili...@gmail.com]
Sent: February 15, 2016 3:46 AM
To: Meghanadh K
Subject: Re: [MW:24294] P-91 to SS Welding

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

No problem if it is for power plant.

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[GENE MATSKO]

There are 5 pieces to each Fillet weld known as the , Toe, Root, Face, Leg and Throat.^[2] The root of the weld is the part of deepest penetration which is the opposite angle of the Hypotenuse. The toes of the weld are essentially the edges or the points of the hypotenuse. The face of the weld is the outer visual or hypotenuse that you see when looking at a fillet weld. The legs are the opposite and adjacent sides to the triangular fillet weld. The leg length is usually designated as the size of the weld. The throat of the weld is the distance from the center of the face to the root of the weld. 

Gene Matsko

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

it is not advisable to use 309 because 309 weld metal  may not be  suitable for service/pwht  temp above 370 C 

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

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[pradip kumar Sil]

Inside the HRSG temp is 550 degree centigrade so we choose ERNiCr-3

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

ER NiCr3 or ENiCrFe2 is the best suitable 

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

buttering is the best one and buttering thickness should not be less than 5mm . we have done both method, for less thickness  direct welding and more than 10mm thickness we have done buttering. pl check the feasibility and do it . 

in ur case, do preheat , butter and do pwht after that weld with only With Nickel base fillers

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

On Tue, Feb 16, 2016 at 9:26 AM, pradip kumar Sil <prad...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Ramdoss Ravindiren]

in my experience, use of inconel eletrode is best. Preheat and pwht shall be done such that P91 side shall be covered fully and HAZ of ss to be covered. Sensitization      can be avoided.

---

From: Kannayeram Gnanapandithan
Sent: ‎16-‎02-‎2016 12:13 PM
To: materials-welding
Subject: Re: [MW:24304] P-91 to SS Welding

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[pradip kumar Sil]

Which is the best practice

1. Preheat P-91 Side, buttering by ERNiCr-3  4 to 5 mm & after Post heat & pwht same as P-91 Material. After conduct fit up with SS material & continue welding without Preheating +Postheating & PWHT. 

2.Preheat and pwht shall be done such that P91 side shall be covered fully and HAZ of ss to be covered.

Regards,

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

Why u chosen 316 for this service temp?    Dissimilar welds made with SS filler will lead to failure at P91HAZ even at temp below the creep range due to 1. Differences of co efficient of expansion between them leading to the formation of large tempered induced stresses at the weld interface. 2. Carbon diffusion from the csef to Ass at the weld interface reduces creep strength of the csef so that creep voids develop and failure occurs by creep along csef alloy. So it is better to use Nickel base fillers.

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