Back Weld at Pressure vessel - U stamp

[sankar krishnan]

Dear Gentlemen,

   Good Evening, In our project Vessel joint thickness 10mm ,Process(GTAW+SAW),Single V joint 

They completed Welding ,Few days later during Inspection we observed , They have done Internal Welding of the shell, As per WPS its not shown 

Guys let me Know  its can Accepted or Rejected 

If Rejected , Please send Reference code standards

As per QW 402.5 Joints (Backing its non Essential ),Its mention Backing strip or also back welding 

[Sandeep Pr]

Dear Sankar Ji,

I hope you meant backgouged & Rewelded by means of Back Welding.

As you said, Addition of backing is non Essential Variable for GTAW as per Table QW 256.

Hence it is accepted.

You can  incorporate the same & Can Revise the WPS 

With Regards,

Sandeep.P.Raghavan

[sankar bombay]

Hai Sandeep Ji,

  actually there is no Back gouge, They welded at Root side from inside shell , they did weld repair 

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shankar

[Gopalakrishnan G]

Kindky check your approved WpS.

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[Gopalakrishnan G]

Whether from inside root weld has been removed by grinding/Arc gouging? Or else directly you have welded.

[Vishwas Keskar Welding Manager WELDING]

Is  that WPS  addressing - 

 QW 402  - Joint design - GTAW - Backing - With/Without 

(Ref - QW256- GTAW - QW 402.5- Addition of  backing is Non essential variable.)

if Both (Backing - With/Without  )  is addressed( which  like  normally is  addressed), then there is no issue at  all .

Eg-

QW 402-

Backing: With/Without                                                                         

Root spacing: As per piping fabrication drawing                                                                                                          

Backing Material (Type): Yes (Metal)

1. Metal -        2. Non-fusing Metal      

3.   Nonmetallic NA   4. Others 

The matter is to  be resolved  amicably . Meet QAC  In charge along with Welding Engineer, Manufacturing Responsible. Explain him the details . 

It shall be acceptable.

Regards

[Ramesh]

Seems weld repair carried out at the root side. Whether your repair carried out as per approved repair procedure ? 

 

With Backing or without backing is essential for welders, not for procedures !

unless there are any specific requirements from the client / inaccessible area for root welding.

Thanks and Regards

Rameshkannan D

"What you have learned is a mere handful; What you haven't learned is the size of the world – Avvaiyar"

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

Acceptable but check the soundness of weld

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  CSWIP 3.1,

ISO 9712 Level 2 in VT,

ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT,

LA ISO 9001-2015,

International Welding Engineer. 

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

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[sankar bombay]

they repaired directly 

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shankar

[sankar bombay]

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shankar

[sankar bombay]

For GTAW Welder QW-402.4 Deleting of backing is essential Variable 

Addition of backing they have not mention 

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shankar

[sankar bombay]

its only Single V groove joint , There is no mention for back weld 

On Mon, Apr 19, 2021 at 11:29 AM Gopalakrishnan G <gopa...@gmail.com> wrote:

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shankar

[Ramesh]

What is the problem to accept ? or what is your valid reason for rejection ?

 

When defects are found, it must be repaired right ? whether in root or anywhere !

Do you have any option other than repair ?

 

In any case, finally it going to be accepted with repair procedure ( Method statement, approved WPS for repair & further NDT )  

Thanks and Regards

Rameshkannan D

"What you have learned is a mere handful; What you haven't learned is the size of the world – Avvaiyar"

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[james gerald]

Check for the below.

1, Check the material & Code and determine whether PWHT is required  and if so carried out after repair.

2. Check the other side welded single pass or multipass, required when Impact test is Applicable. (i believe for 10 mm no Impact test is required anyhow check the code & Material).

Above 2 conditions are satisfied then no issue

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar

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[Vishwas Keskar]

Dear Samkar

May I know what is your concern now ?

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[Ramesh]

Don’t not confuse with production weld and repair welds

 

Though its single sided weld as per WPS for your production ,  when repair comes at root what you do ? ( presuming accessible at root side )

 

For repair, your weld metal is backing material, so any welder qualified with backing or without backing can repair in your case. 

Thanks and Regards

Rameshkannan D

"What you have learned is a mere handful; What you haven't learned is the size of the world – Avvaiyar"

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[José Juan Jiménez Alejandro]

And if it is a container that will have an ASME Stamp with a U Designator, why don't you ask your Authorized Inspector what is assigned to you?

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Ing. José Juan Jiménez Alejandro

Independent Consultant in Parts

and Pressure Equipment

SUMMIT MÉXICO - TPI

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Móvil +52 1 812 352 4606

Skype: jjjimeneza

[pravean ashok]

Dear 

 As per ASMe sec IX QW 402  - Joint design - GTAW - Backing - With/Without 

GTAW - QW 402.5- Addition of  backing is Non essential variable.)

if Both (Backing - With/Without  )  must be addressed in your WPS then there is no issue to weld 

Regards

Pravean

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[james gerald]

Please understand whether this problem in Production Joint or during PQR Qualification. When you take it with your Client, list all the possible Code clauses and convince the Client that none of the Code clauses are violated.

1. First the WPS is suitable for welding single sided or double sided and with Backing or without Backing since all these variables are non-essential variables as below ASME Sec.IX snap shot.

2, Secondly consider all other code clauses and convince your Client that weld is within code limits/

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar

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[pravean ashok]

Dear Mr sankar 

The screen shot by James Jerald stated very clear all  are non essential variable we are not violating the code now go a head 

If your job is belongs to pressure vessel under ASME stamp just communicate to Authorised Inspector to revise WPS and get mutual understanding to start welding if he didn't allow make a internal NCR and revise the WPS to start welding immediately. 

Regards

Pravean

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[sankar bombay]

Bro ,

I don't think so you doesn't understand my question 

What is the problem ? or what is your valid reason for rejection ?- all things we cannot accept whatever the fabricators or doing jobs , its should be according to project specification and code requirement 

When defects are found, it must be repaired right ? whether in root or anywhere ! - there is a standard for repairing methods , there is any code mention that you can repair from inside , WPS it was not mentioned , how do you agree with these things ?..

Do you have any option other than repair ?-there is no Repair WPS and Procedure does not mention how they will repair 

In any case, finally it going to be accepted with repair procedure ( Method statement, approved WPS for repair & further NDT )  - If they follow according to our project specifications we will accept otherwise it will be NCR for that company 

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shankar

[pravean ashok]

Dear sankar 

If your purchase outside from the manifacturer like boiler, pressure vessel, heat exchanger, finfan cooler whatever it may be during transportation damaged now you need to repair so that time you need repair procedure, method statement,revised wps all those things currently you project is On going activity you can revise the wps and submit get approval from client while mean time you talk along with management team with your Client to avoid NCR to start welding is there any problem we are not violating the standard it is understand in between client & contract QC supervisor Responsibility

If your client is more vigilant make an internal NCR and start immediately welding 

Regards

Pravean

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[Ramesh]

Everyone will have a different understanding when your question is not clear. A bit of information will not guide users to respond properly.

 

            Anyway, Go ahead to issue NCR and let us know how it went / closed from the vendor side. 

Thanks and Regards

Rameshkannan D

"What you have learned is a mere handful; What you haven't learned is the size of the world – Avvaiyar"

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