Tack welder qualification

[samshuddin k]

Dear Experts
There is any clause in ASME Sec. IX for tack welder qualification.
Which Code explains tack welder qualification for piping
regards
Samshuddin.K

[Morin, Darcy (Bantrel Management Services)]

ASME IX recognizes "Welders and Welding Operators". There is no provision for "Tack Welders" in ASME IX. However, ASME B31.3 328.5.1(c) mentions "Tack Welders", and here is the subsequent Interpretation of this clause:

Interpretation 22-35

Subject: ASME B31.3-2008, Para. 328.5.1(c), Tack Welding Welder Performance Qualifications
Date Issued: October 5, 2009
File: 09-1003
Question (1): Does ASME B31.3, para. 328.5.1(c) require that tack welds, whether they are to
be incorporated into the final weld or be removed, be made by a qualified welder?
Reply (1): Yes.
Question (2): Does ASME B31.3, para. 328.5.1(c) require that tack welds be made to a qualified
WPS for that joint?
Reply (2): Yes; see para. 328.5.1(a).
Question (3): Does ASME B31.3, para. 328.5.1(c) allow tack welds on a groove weld joint to be
made by a welder qualified on a fillet weld test?
Reply (3): No. See ASME BPV Code Section IX, para. 303.2.

Regards,

Darcy Morin

Bantrel Management Services
mor...@bantrel.com
o - 780 979 6225
c - 780 782 5692

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[Lakshman Kumar.B]

Hi dear,

Nowhere or any code didn’t specified for qualification method of a tack
welder.

Tack welding is also a welding and which it needs to be done by a 100%
qualified welder only and not having any short cut.

All the sub contractors are taking advantage by saying the name of tack
welder.

Thanks and Regards.................
 
Lakshman Kumar.B|Manager |Lanco Infratech Limited
Plot No 1255 | Sanjeevani chowk | Mahanadi vihar | Cuttack 753004
Phone : + 91 671 2445033 | Mobile : +91 9937286851 |www.lancogroup.com
Go Green|The future will thank you

-----Original Message-----
From: material...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of samshuddin k
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 10:19 PM
To: materials-welding
Subject: [MW:13203] Tack welder qualification

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[Sundaram Elumalai]

 

As per AWS D1.1, we have provision and can qualify. But finally Customer spec will govern.

 

 

With Kind Regards,

 

S.Elumalai.

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[John Henning]

Both ASME Section VIII and ASME Section I have the following wording: "Tack welds to be left in place shall be made by welders qualified in accordance with Section IX . . ."

This appears in UW-31(c) and PW-31.1.3

- If the tack welds are completely removed prior to welding the joint, then tack welders do not have to be qualified.
- If the tack welds are to be incorporated into the joint (i.e. welded over after suitable prep and inspection), then the welder must be a welder qualified as appropriate for making the joint weld per Section IX.

John

-----Original Message-----
From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Lakshman Kumar.B
Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2011 9:25 PM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:13205] RE: 13203] Tack welder qualification

[samshuddin k]

Dear Sir
Thanks for your guidance.
Still I am not clear with the concept
ASME Sec IX says all welding shall be done by a qualified welder, So
for tacking groove joint,
welder need to be qualified for groove joint.....?
Or if he qualified for fillet joint, he can allowed for tacking groove
joint (Tack either incorporated into the final weld or removed).....?
please reply
Samshuddin.K
Asst Engineer-QSA
N-KOM

On 12/13/11, Morin, Darcy (Bantrel Management Services)

[samshuddin k]

Dear Sir
AWS has got provision for tack welder qualification.

[Morin, Darcy (Bantrel Management Services)]

Samshuddin,

According to ASME B31.3, which has a very strict requirement, Tack Welders are the same as Welders. B31.3 requires that ALL welding (temporary or permanent) on a groove joint be performed by a 'qualified' welder.

You will find flexibility in the fact that ASME B31.3 does not specify HOW they will be qualified.

One possible scenario: If an Examiner witnesses the root tacks being performed, and then RT the completed weld (Welded by a qualified welder); some say that this is enough to qualify the Tack Welder in the positions witnessed, if the tacks are visually acceptable and the RT passes examination to ASME section IX criteria.

Fillet Welders are not qualified to weld on a groove joint (See ASME BPV Code Section IX, para. 303.2).

It is important to ensure that anyone who is welding on the pressure envelope, temporary or permanent, undergoes a documented evaluation and verification of their ability to deposit sound weld metal which is acceptable to Owner and Jurisdiction.

Some other Governing Bodies (AWS, CSA for example) have different ways of qualifying Tack Welders. An expert in our discussion group can speak to this?

[SONU KASHYAP]

Dear Expert

  It is clear that tack welding require qualified welder,but if we wants to qualify unqualified person,then ho to qualify?Also if we do only tack weld of supporting plates with pipe/plates for straight alignment,do we need qualification of that unqualified person,also keep in mind that these tacking are removed after final welding.

[anthony chundal]

Dear Sam,

As per ASME Sec VIII-Div-1, UW-31(c), tack welders need to be qualified.

Regards,

Anthony.

[dili...@gmail.com]

...if they remain in place...

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: anthony chundal Sent: Πέμπτη, 28 Ιουλίου 2016 - 13:04 To: Materials & Welding Reply To: material...@googlegroups.com Subject: [MW:25155] Re: Tack welder qualification

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[César Alexis Viteri Pérez]

Be sure that tack welders dont open arc out if bevel.

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Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2016 21:05:20 +0300
Subject: Re: [MW:25156] Re: Tack welder qualification
From: dili...@gmail.com
To: material...@googlegroups.com

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/20160728180520.6713423.18949.3894%40gmail.com.

[JIJILAL K M]

ASME  VIII says tack welders shall be qualified.

Sec. IX not specifically mentioned.

So  both in refinery & power plant , as per ASME IX , QW-461.9   we followed 5F position (pipe to plate 45 degree  inclined) to qualify tack welders.

Best Regards,

JIJILAL K.M. 

QA/QC Manager,

Thai Jurong Engineering Ltd,

KCE SPP Project,Thailand

#096 786 0129

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/BLU183-W15A51C161BD8FC45EFA3828F010%40phx.gbl.

[SUNILKAUSHIK]

Dear sir,
           I am working in fabrication company of piping.My company divided the the welders in two different area-(1) tack welders & (2) welders.Tack welders are working at fitup section & welders are working in welding area.Now my question is that-is it required to qualify the tack welders?If yes then why? If yes than how i will proceed & how to make the prolongation of tack welders?

[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

What is the code of contruction. If it is AWS D1.1, yes required. But otherwise no. 

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[sunil kaushik]

Code of construction is ASME B 31.1,ASME B 31.3.

[Mohamed Muneeb]

Also if SA company project then required. 

[sunil kaushik]

Ok noted but my tack welders are working at fitup section and welders are working at Welding area.my concern is that how I am sure that my tack welder is qualified tack welder.is there any test is required?

[munee...@gmail.com]

Greetings,

It is not the tack welder qualification for tack, or not even a fillet qualification for a tack in groove, but it is the qualification of welder and welding operators in groove welds who qualifies the tack as per trailing mail it is very clear that ASME B 31.3 interpretations are stirngent saying fillet qualified groove tacks also? its says no...

So in your case same applies you dont need a tack qualified welder to tack a weld, but a qualified grooved welder.

If i am in your place, i will choose the poor performance welder though are qualified, but still not consistent to get a qualified weld or a repair welder or a welder who is in revoking stages, if you quantify you will get a  sum to accompay in your tack bay, this everything comes under planning and not leaving loop holes for TPIs, if you are following as per written documents.

or

If your client or TPIs are bold or wise thinkers to know the consequences of flushed off tacks then it is not a big deal but take a verbal approval for non qualified welder, but you make sure they are good enough to make tacks.

Hope its clear.

SAES-W-011

8 Welder and Welding Operator Qualification
8.1 All welders, welding operators, brazers, and brazing operators shall be qualified in accordance with the ASME SEC IX and SAEP-321, SAEP-322, SAEP-323, and SAEP-324,as applicable, for all welding, including tack, temporary, and repair welds.

Regards,

Mohamed Muneeb Mahaboob.

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[Prakash Gotimukul]

Any welder welding on pressure part must be a qualified welder incl tacks. There is no concession given in code for tack welders. All are qualufied welders. Some may be less experienced. Those u can use for tacks. But qualified Yes. Unqualufied welders shd not even touch pr parts.

Rgds Prakash Gotimukul AIS

[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

Could u pl give ASME code ref for Tack welder qualification. 

General Engineering Practice is entirely different.

 

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  CSWIP 3.1,

ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT.

International Welding Engineer. 

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

[munee...@gmail.com]

Greetings,

FYI

ASME B 31.3

328.5 Welding Requirements
328.5.1 General
(c) Tack welds at the root of the joint shall be made
with filler metal equivalent to that used in the root pass.
Tack welds shall be made by a qualified welder or welding
operator. Tack welds shall be fused with the root
pass weld, except that those that have cracked shall be
removed. Bridge tacks (above the weld) shall be
removed.

ASME B 31.1

127.4 Procedure
127.4.1 General
(C) Tack welds permitted to remain in the finished
weld shall be made by a qualified welder. Tack welds
made by an unqualified welder shall be removed. Tack
welds that remain shall be made with an electrode and
WPS that is the same as or equivalent to the electrode
and WPS to be used for the first pass. The stopping and
starting ends shall be prepared by grinding or other
means so that they can be satisfactorily incorporated
into the final weld. Tack welds that have cracked shall
be removed.

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[Rajnish Dixit]

Hi,

As mentioned by the fellow members, as per code(s) there is no such qualification requirements specifically in the name of tack welders. Only qualified welders are to be used for tacking purpose too.

Thanks,
Warm Regards,

Rajnish Dixit

[sandeep kumar]

Please refer QW 303.1 & QW 303.2.

[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

it is revised to add tack welds also for qualified welders. ASME except  AWS D1.1, never  says about separate qualified Tack welders, It always qualified welders.

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  CSWIP 3.1,

ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT.

International Welding Engineer. 

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

[Prakash Gotimukul]

UW 31 asme sec viii div 1

Rgds.
Prakash G  AIS

[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

As per UW 31, it refers section IX for qualification of welders and welding operators. There is no separate category as Tack welders as mentioned in AWS D1.1, 4.15.1.2.

All tack welds and welding shall be made by a Qualified welders( There is no separate category for tack welders in ASME, Piping etc). Hope it is clear

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  CSWIP 3.1,

ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT.

International Welding Engineer. 

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

[munee...@gmail.com]

Agreed, there is no seperate qualification for tacks as per UW-31(c) clearly states that the tack welds to be left in place shall be made by welders qualified in accordance with Section IX.

Moreover, if it is temperory tack then it does not mandate to be a holder of code certificate of authorization.

But to be clear with the conclusions, there are no seperate qualification for only tacks.

Regards,

Mohamed Muneeb Mahabobb.

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From: Kannayeram Gnanapandithan

Date: 2018-10-10 07:52

To: materials-welding