Time between root pass and hot pass

[jesti fer]

Dear all,

We are doing 20” pipe line project with API 5L Gr.B material as per B31.4, Welding process SMAW (E6010 for root and rest with E 7018, both are up-hill) our welder welded one joint root pass and he kept this joint for long time. But our Qc instructed to cut and re-weld the joint. But the time between root pass and hot pass not mentioned in approved WPS and client specification also.

It necessary to cut and re-weld?

It is mentioned any were in the code (ASME or API)?

 

Please help me,,

  

Best Regards

[mrputing ramli]

just perform whatever NDT needed like MPI and RT to ensure its free of defects and if there is no defect or off set, its can be continued. The most problem can be occurred is cold crack due to heavy wall, weld metal at root pass will cool fast due to its thinner section than parent metal. That why its not recommended to left it without completing the hot pass

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From: jesti fer <jest...@yahoo.com>
To: "material...@googlegroups.com" <material...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2012 9:25 PM
Subject: [MW:14272] Time between root pass and hot pass

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[mohd.qce]

Dear all,

If welding code is API1104 then there should be lapse timing between root and hot and subsequent passes..

any way as per ur case there is no timing..then..even no need to perform NDE also..because ur following WPS for weld as per ur  code..correct..

Just make necessary preheating prior starting hot pass.

regards,

mohd.

[Graham Adams]

Hello,

If WPS does not mention time elapsed between root and hot pass, it should never have been approved, as this is an essential variable as per API 1104 clause 5.3.2.10

Regards

Graham Adams

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[Valiullah Sarpanch]

API 1104, para 5.4.2.8

[SENTHIL P]

DEARS,

         Yes, u need to cut and reweld. Mostly hotpass is to burn and float out wagon track present in root pass ,so time between root and hot pass is 5 to 10 minutes

Regards,

SENBE

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[manpreet]

Hi,

I would assume that time lapse between 1st and 2nd pass would be stated in WPS and PQR, since you exceeded the limit imposed by WPS, it's a non-conformance, talk to client and seek for allowing preheat the pipe and continue welding, no need to cut and reweld the joint straight away without investigating. You could perform hardness tests using protable hardness tester to ascertain client.

I have seen max. time lapse of 30 min. between 1st and 2nd pass.


Cheers,
Manpreet Singh

On Sun, 27 May 2012 21:26:58 +0530 wrote

>DEARS,         Yes, u need to cut and reweld. Mostly hotpass is to burn and float out wagon track present in root pass ,so time between root and hot pass is 5 to 10 minutes


Regards,
SENBE

On Tue, May 15, 2012 at 5:25 PM, jesti fer wrote:


Dear all,
We are doing 20” pipe line project with API 5L Gr.B material as per B31.4, Welding process SMAW (E6010 for root and rest with E 7018, both are up-hill) our welder welded one joint root pass and he kept this joint for long time. But our Qc instructed to cut and re-weld the joint. But the time between root pass and hot pass not mentioned in approved WPS and client specification also.

It necessary to cut and re-weld?
It is mentioned any were in the code (ASME or API)?
 
Please help me,,
  
Best Regards



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The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.






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[tahir...@gmail.com]

would you please guide me that can we left the joints after hot pass and complete the joints next day.

[Charles Jacob]

Dear, 

Even if it is mentioned in code, if it is not in WPS or the project specification, then you are not required to do it mandatory. An engineering query can be raised and this can be considered as interruption of welding. In such case, the following methods can be suggested. 

1. Visual examination of root to check out for cracks 

2.DPT to check for fine cracks open to surface. 

3. Radiography to ensure no cracks inside.

Hope this helps.

Regards, 

Charles  Jacob 

Welding Consultant

Magnum Consultancy Services

+91 7034331779  

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

Ref API 1104

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[selwin jebadas]

Hi,

Not required to cut the joint You can visually inspect and grind it to remove moisture content or else use DPT if required.

ASME didn't have any constrains for this.

thanks,

selwin

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

If the qualification ( WPS) is done as per API 1104, Then it is essential variable. while doing procedure, it should be established. ref. API 1104, 5.3.2.10   and 5.4.2.8

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  CSWIP 3.1,

ISO 9712 Level 2 in VT,

ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT,

LA ISO 9001-2015,

International Welding Engineer. 

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

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[Vinay Thattey]

Recut as explained by you is not required by code or specification . Inspection for surface defect is advised before subsequent pass.

Regards

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

Ref API 1104

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[james gerald]

There is no requirement in ASME Sec.iX.

But API 1104 reference as below.

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar

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[George Dilintas]

Nothing like this is required neither in ASME nor in API.

To the contrary, in this way - when the previous pass cools down, the heat input is minimized.

The only problem that may arise is cracking because of the removal of the temporary supports.

If the weld was adequately supported and the pass was not overloaded and not cracked, no problem

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Dr. Georgios Dilintas,

Dipl. Ing. In Aeronautic and Space Engineering

Ph.D in Mechanics of Solids - Computational Mechanics

A.I.S, A.N.I, IRCA Lead Auditor

Welding, Stress Analysis, Corrosion, QA/QC, Failure Analysis, Risk Analysis