QW 200.4: Combination of Welding Procedures

[Sudhakar Kuppuswamy]

Hi,

Currently one of my clients is having an ambiguity in applying the requirements of ASME Section 09 Clause QW 200.4: Combination of Welding Procedures, Subclause:  a & b requirements. Hence, support is required in finding an interpretation from ASME Section 09. (Interpretation in CS connect is not apparent for this clause)

Background: Two PQRs were qualified separately, PQR A is qualified with SAW process using 8 mm thickness plate and PQR B is qualified with SMAW process using 8 mm thickness plate.

Question: While combining the two PQRs to weld a plate with thickness(es) ranging from 1.5 mm to 16 mm.

Do as per QW 200.4, it is necessary to have the root pass process PQR need to be qualified on a minimum 13 mm thickness plate?

I’m pretty sure it is not required to have a root pass process PQR with minimum 13 mm thickness in the above case. However, it would be helpful if you found any interpretation on this.

Regards,

Sudhakar K CEng MWeldI,IWE.

Welding & Metallurgical Engineer,

Email: sudhak...@gmail.com.

[james gerald]

Check the GTAW process thickness ranges qualified in PQR and if the combination WPS is within this qualification range then you can use it.

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar

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[james gerald]

Just to add,

Process applicable for SMAW,SAW etc..

Only if the maximum BM thickness beyond the qualified range during PQR then qualifying for 13mm separate process is applicable during combination.

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

There is revision made in QW 200.4, 2021 edition. 

In 2019, it is clearly mentioned that when combination is made, the process which is going to be used for Root pass, shall have qualified at least 13mm thick.

In 2021, it is not specific about root pass process qualification thickness, but it is clear that u can combined/individual the process in  which each combined or individual might have been qualified at least on 13mm thick. 

If any of process is not qualified on 13mm thick, shall not be combined. any process can be used for root pass with max 2t and another one with maximum base metal thick.

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  CSWIP 3.1,

ISO 9712 Level 2 in VT,

ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT,

LA ISO 9001-2015,

International Welding Engineer. 

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

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[james gerald]

Basically 13mm changed from Weld metal thickness to Base Metal thickness and qualified weld metal thickness is 2t.

Thanks & Regards

J.Gerald Jayakumar

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[Sudhakar Kuppuswamy]

Sir, wishing you a very happy new year!!

QW-200.4(b) is an alternative to QW-200.4(a).

Under QW-200.4(a) we can combine the two PQRs, in my below case describe in my earlier email . Writing  one WPS allowing both processes with the following ranges

Base metal: 1.5 to 16 mm

SMAW weld metal: 16 mm maximum

SAW weld metal: 16 mm maximum.

there is no need to use the alternative provisions in QW-200.4(b) to do that. Thus root pass PQR with 13 mm is not required. All I was looking is an interpretation if one js available. 

Thanks for your message. 

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

in a single joint u can use 2 separate  WPS ( not combined one wps)within the limit of the variable with different process. ur question was to combine 2pqrs in one WPS for which u have follow 200.4, b only.

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, BE, IWE,  CSWIP 3.1,

ISO 9712 Level 2 in VT,

ASNT-Level II in PT,MT,RT & UT,

LA ISO 9001-2015,

International Welding Engineer. 

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

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[Sourav Bohrays]

Dear all

Simple logic is we have to refer qw 451.1 only ,thickness range should be as per qw 451.1.

This clause come to in highlight due to heat sink . In high thickness heat sink happen thats why this method of weleing used

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[Sudhakar Kuppuswamy]

Dear Sir,

No necessary it is required to follow QW200.4 b in my below case as well. 

Regards,

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[james gerald]

Agree. Please check the word alternative

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[pgos...@rogers.com]

 

Hello, Sudhakar,

 

Please see the clause QW-200.4 from 2017 & 2021 editions of Sec-IX. You may exercise the options of paragraph (a) or paragraph t (b) as indicated below. The wordings are slightly different in 2017 & 2021 versions.

 

In my opinion you may still use the PQR’s as described below. If you read the texts indicated between the 2 arrows as below, a combination of the qualified PQRs may be used to write a WPS of SMAW+SAW. You need to refer the table QW-451.1 to justify the qualified thickness for both base & weld metal for each qualified process.

 

Note: The steps indicated paragraph (b) is an alternative to paragraph  (a).

 

Thanks.

 

Pradip Goswami.P.Eng, IWE.

Independent Consulting Welding & Metallurgical Engineering Specialist

Saudi Aramco Approved Designated Project Welding Engineer (DPWR)

Qatar Petroleum Approved, SME-Materials & Corrosion Engineering.

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Cell/Whasapp:1-905-9793232

 

Sec IX-2021.

Sec IX-2017                                                                                         

 

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[Mohd Siraj]

"Question: While combining the two PQRs to weld a plate with the thickness(es) ranging from 1.5 mm to 16 mm."

pl, check one is semiautomatic and one is a manual process, I don't see benefits of the combination.?...

furthermore,

welding Root wirh SMAW and over it SAW OR welding Root with SAW over it SMAW does make welding complex.

[Sudhakar Kuppuswamy]

There are benefits! What if there are large tank job and one need to weld the roof joint butt welds, where back chipping is required. we can effectively weld root pass with SMAW & further passes with SAW. Good productively can be made.

Regards,

Sudhakar K CEng MWeldI,IWE.

Welding & Metallurgical Engineer,

Email: sudhak...@gmail.com.

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[Raghul]

Hi,

     From my understanding of asme sec IX 2021,the PQR to be qualified on 13 mm thickness with single process or combination of process to qualify combination of PQR for single wps.

Regards

Raghul 

On 14-Feb-2022, at 6:17 AM, Sudhakar Kuppuswamy <sudhak...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Mohd Siraj]

sir,

....for Roof assembly are being welded on the ground and once you erect complete roof, I don't think you can weld with SAW weld, which require set up and where 1G welding is possible.,roof plate welding even manual expert welders are facing problems due to gap and space restriction...

[lawrenced...@gmail.com]

Hi All

   Please refer following interpretation which is useful for the subject question.

Interpretation Detail  

Print to PDF

Standard Designation:
BPV Section IX

Edition/Addenda:


Para./Fig./Table No:


Subject Description:
Section IX, QW-200.4(b), Combination of Welding Procedures

Date Issued:
09/22/1993

Record Number:
BC93-490

Interpretation Number :
IX-92-75

Question(s) and Reply(ies):

Question: When writing multi-process welding procedures per QW-200.4(a), where the tube wall thickness is less than 1 in., using a separate qualification for the root deposit only, must the root deposit qualification coupon be 1/2 in. minimum thickness as stated in QW-200.4(b)?

Reply: No.