ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End

[Vino Varghese]

Dear All,

 

We have a Partial Cladded Vessel("U" Stamp Vessel) which we are intend to fabricate at our Manufacturing shop and is designed for Sour Service.

The Overall thickness is 30 mm.

 

The Partial Claddded Area has the -

Base material = 27 mm thickness , SA 516 Gr. 70

Clad Material =  3mm min. , Incolloy 825.

 

One of the Dish End is a Cladded part(Explosion Bond Method) which we are planning to off load work to a "U" Stamp Manufacturer Shop due to limited forming availablity at our Fabrication Facility.

My Question -

1) Does this shop need to have ASME "U" Stamp?

2) Do we require a Partial Data Report from this Manufacturing Unit duly signed by Autorised Inspector?

3) Do we require this Manufacturing Unit to be Approved by requesting them to submit Pre-Approval Document?

4) What all min. Documents are required to be submitted in accordance to ASME Sec VIIII Div 1. 

5) The Contract for this Vessel was signed by Client on June 2010. Can we use ASME Sec VIIII Div 1, 2007 with 2009 Addenda or we have to follow ASME 2010?

 

Please do provide relevant Clause from ASME supporting the above Queries.

 

Hope to see as usual opinion. Also someone can share QAP of similar use.(SA 516 Gr. 70 + Clad , Incolloy 825.) and relevant WPS.

 

Thanks & Regards

Vino P Varghese

Doha-Qatar

[Karthik]

Hi, Please find below my suggestions as marked in RED. 1) Does this shop need to have ASME "U" Stamp? - No need. (UG-11 (b) ) 2) Do we require a Partial Data Report from this Manufacturing Unit duly signed by Autorised Inspector? - No need.Manufacturer of the part shall furnish identification in accordance with UG-93. You have to certify the Dish end as you are the U stamp holder and manufacturer as per (UG-11 (b) ) and UG-79 and submit the report and related documents to AI for acceptance. 3) Do we require this Manufacturing Unit to be Approved by requesting them to submit Pre-Approval Document? - As per your Quality System. 4) What all min. Documents are required to be submitted in accordance to ASME Sec VIIII Div 1. - If for dish end only means,Material certificates,Dimension Reports,If there is any Heattreatment applicable...Heat treatment report etc., If for the Whole vessel,it will be as per your quality manual and ASME Sec.VIII,Div.1-Appendix-10,10-3 (Record Retension) 5) The Contract for this Vessel was signed by Client on June 2010. Can we use ASME Sec VIIII Div 1, 2007 with 2009 Addenda or we have to follow ASME 2010? - You can use ASME Sec VIIII Div 1, 2007 with 2009 Addenda

Please do provide relevant Clause from ASME supporting the above Queries.

Hope to see as usual opinion. Also someone can share QAP of similar use.(SA 516 Gr. 70 + Clad , Incolloy 825.) and relevant WPS. - You mean ITP? it shall be prepared by you as per the drawing and scope of work. For WPS..please send the doubts in preparation of WPS.we can assist you. Thanks & Regards, (Karthik) Karthikeyan.S QA/QC Manager Getabec Energy Co.,Ltd. 379,Moo6,Soi8,Nikhomphatana, Rayong-21180, Thailand. Phone: 0066 38 897035-8 (Off) Fax: 0066 38 897034 Hand Phone: 0066 892512282 --- On Fri, 1/21/11, Vino Varghese <vinopv...@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Vino Varghese <vinopv...@gmail.com> Subject: [MW:9358] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End To: material...@googlegroups.com Date: Friday, January 21, 2011, 2:17 AM

Dear All,   We have a Partial Cladded Vessel("U" Stamp Vessel) which we are intend to fabricate at our Manufacturing shop and is designed for Sour Service. The Overall thickness is 30 mm.   The Partial Claddded Area has the - Base material = 27 mm thickness , SA 516 Gr. 70 Clad Material =  3mm min. , Incolloy 825.   One of the Dish End is a Cladded part(Explosion Bond Method) which we are planning to off load work to a "U" Stamp Manufacturer Shop due to limited forming availablity at our Fabrication Facility. My Question -

1) Does this shop need to have ASME "U" Stamp? - No need. (UG-11 (b) ) 2) Do we require a Partial Data Report from this Manufacturing Unit duly signed by Autorised Inspector? - No need.Manufacturer of the part shall furnish identification in accordance with UG-93. You have to certify the Dish end as you are the U stamp holder and manufacturer as per (UG-11 (b) ) and UG-79 and submit the report and related documents to AI for acceptance. 3) Do we require this Manufacturing Unit to be Approved by requesting them to submit Pre-Approval Document? - As per your Quality System. 4) What all min. Documents are required to be submitted in accordance to ASME Sec VIIII Div 1. - If for dish end only means,Material certificates,Dimension Reports,If there is any Heattreatment applicable...Heat treatment report etc., If for the Whole vessel,it will be as per your quality manual and ASME Sec.VIII,Div.1-Appendix-10,10-3 (Record Retension) 5) The Contract for this Vessel was signed by Client on June 2010. Can we use ASME Sec VIIII Div 1, 2007 with 2009 Addenda or we have to follow ASME 2010? - You can use ASME Sec VIIII Div 1, 2007 with 2009 Addenda

Please do provide relevant Clause from ASME supporting the above Queries.

Hope to see as usual opinion. Also someone can share QAP of similar use.(SA 516 Gr. 70 + Clad , Incolloy 825.) and relevant WPS. - You mean ITP? it shall be prepared by you as per the drawing and scope of work. For WPS..please send the doubts in preparation of WPS.we can assist you.

Thanks & Regards Vino P Varghese Doha-Qatar

-- To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group's bolg at http://materials-welding.blogspot.com/ The views expressed/exchnaged in this group are members personel views and meant for educational purposes only, Users must take their own decisions w.r.t. applicable code/standard/contract documents.

[DOKKU AJAY]

Added add few more points to Mr. Karthik's suggestions in blue font.
 

Thanks,

Dokku Ajay Kumar

---

From: Karthik <karth...@yahoo.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 7:01:17 AM
Subject: Re: [MW:9359] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End

Hi, Please find below my suggestions as marked in RED. 1) Does this shop need to have ASME "U" Stamp? - No need. (UG-11 (b) )

2) Do we require a Partial Data Report from this Manufacturing Unit duly signed by Autorised Inspector? -

No need.Manufacturer of the part shall furnish identification in accordance with UG-93. PDR would be required if the heads are not in single piece.

You have to certify the Dish end as you are the U stamp holder and manufacturer as per (UG-11 (b) ) and UG-79 and submit the report and related documents to AI for acceptance. 3) Do we require this Manufacturing Unit to be Approved by requesting them to submit Pre-Approval Document? - As per your Quality System. 4) What all min. Documents are required to be submitted in accordance to ASME Sec VIIII Div 1. - If for dish end only means,Material certificates,Dimension Reports,If there is any Heattreatment applicable...Heat treatment report etc., If for the Whole vessel,it will be as per your quality manual and ASME Sec.VIII,Div.1-Appendix-10,10-3 (Record Retension)

If there is any tack welding to be done on the heads for lifting hooks etc., the vendor has to provide WPS,PQR & WQR as per ASME Sec.IX for approval to you who has the final authority for applying code stamp on vessels. Please refer U 2(B) (2), whcih states that "Some type of work, such as forming, NDE, & heat treatment, may be performed by others (for welding refer UW-26 & UW31). It is the vessel or part manufacturer responsibility to ensure that all work so perfomed complies with all applicable requirment of this division".   Refer UW-31 (C) last paragraph, which states that " Provided the work done under the provisoins of U2(b), it is not necessary that a subcontractor making such tack welds for a vessel or parts manufacturer be a holder of a code certificate of Authorization. The requirement oF uw-26(d) do not apply to such tack welds."

[Vino Varghese]

Dear Karthik and All,

 

Thanks for the reply. Appreciate to see your quick reponse.

 

I have 1 more Question for you.

 

The manufacturer does not have a single piece for the Cladded part(3mm) and they intent to achieve this by joining 2 plates by welding. The Base Material(27 mm) Plate is Seamless for the Dish End.

The Dish End is achieved by Explosion Bond Process and the Base Materials is 27mm, SA 516 Gr.70 + 3mm Clad Plate(Inclloy 825).

The disbond shall be checked by UT.

 

As there will be Welding involved, should not we request for a Partial Data Report signed by a A.I at the Manufacturer Shop before it is delivery at our Fabrication Shop?

 

Thanks 

Vino  Varghese

Doha-Qatar  

 

 

___________________________________________________________________________

[Tex Riz]

When calc strength, clad portion 3 mm doesn't be taken as minimum thickness. Treated as non pressure part.

Sent from my Hape Buluk®
powered by Sinyal Ancur

---

From: Vino Varghese <vinopv...@gmail.com>

Sender: material...@googlegroups.com

Date: Fri, 21 Jan 2011 15:46:38 +0400

To: <material...@googlegroups.com>

ReplyTo: material...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [MW:9390] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End

[Karthik]

Hi, .No need  Partial report.The dish head manufacturer shall submit the Suitable WPS/PQR and the Welder qualification records.Also the Welding consumables certificates,NDE reports etc., Pls.refer ASME Sec.VIII,Div-1.UCL.

[Arunachalam A]

You require partial data report.

arun

அருணாசலம்
கலைவாணி
சுதர்ஷனா
வருண்

[DOKKU AJAY]

Rewording your query, correct me if i'm wrong,

 

"The clad plate will be in 2 pieces welded together which will be bonded together with base plate of SA516 Gr.70 (Single piece). After the explosion bonding, then the plate will be formed to make head."

 

If this is the case, then you don't need to have PDR, as i believe the plates (Base+clad) will be prodcued & certified as per SA-263/264/265 and then formed into heads. Please refer UCL-11 (a).

 

If still in doubt, then consult your AI.

 

Dokku Ajay Kumar
Mobile: +966 500071054

---

From: Vino Varghese <vinopv...@gmail.com>

To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 21, 2011 2:46:38 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:9390] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End

[Fred Majdnia]

Dear Vino,

 

If the welding of either two peices of clad plates or base plates are done by yourself and delivered for cladding / forming shop then there is no need for PDR as other friends mentioned.

However any welding work by the subcontractor shall mandate the ASME Autorization certificate (stamp holder) of that shop. It means PDR is required as Arun suggested.

 

Bythe way I never heard of any shop in that area who can do the explosion cladding? Be careful that they may subcontract it to the only shop in India- near Delhi and hide from you to put you in trouble with the client.

 

Regards

   

-----material...@googlegroups.com wrote: -----

To: material...@googlegroups.com
From: DOKKU AJAY <akd...@yahoo.com>
Sent by: material...@googlegroups.com
Date: 01/21/2011 11:32PM
Subject: Re: [MW:9406] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End

 
 
This email and any attached files ("Message") may contain confidential and/or privileged information. It is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you receive this Message in error, inform the sender by reply email, delete the Message and destroy any printed copy.
Any unauthorized use, distribution, or copying of this Message or any part thereof is prohibited. Emails are susceptible to alteration. Neither Technip nor any of its affiliates shall be liable for the Message if altered or falsified nor shall they be liable for any damage caused by any virus that might be transmitted with this Message.

[Vino Varghese]

Dear Ajay,

 

The Rewording you have provided is absolutely correct.

I have consulted our A.I and he confirmed that the PDR is required.

 

Still i am not totally convienced. I think you can put more light by supporting similar real time work in past.

 

Hope to hear more information regarding the same.

 

Thanks & Regards

Vino P Varghese
________________________________________________________________

[DOKKU AJAY]

In my opinion still there is no need of PDR, Following is the justification:

 

1. Reference: UG 11(b)......."All such parts shall be made of materials permitted under this division".

Cladded plates will be certified as per either SA 263/264/265, which complies to the material requirement permitted by ASME Sec.VIII Div.1 as per Clause UCL 11(a). Please note that the UG11(b) is for "Cast, Forged, Rolled, or die Formed Non-Standard Pressure Parts" & not for the Raw Materials (In our case it's clsad plate).

 

2. Reference SA263/264/265, Section 14 "Repair of Cladding by welding": Please note that even repair of defects in clad is allowed by welding, provided it meets all the requirement stated in Clause 14.1.1 to 14.1.6. The point to be noted is that there is no restriction on the area of repair i.e. the plate manufaturer can still repair the clad throught the length of the plate and still can certify the plate. So, no PDR is asked in this case. And the same case is applicable to the splice joint of SS plate prior to bonding.

 

However, you need to have all the documents in place similar to what asked for the repair i.e. WPS/PQR & WQR in accordacne to Sex.IX (Clause 14.1.2) etc. You can even ask for higher extent of examination, as it is upto the purchaser. 

 

3. I can understand the conserns of AI. They would be more concerned about the integrity of the weld which can be taken care by proper evaluation of documents, using proper consumable, using qualifeid welders, and testing (PT) the weld . However, the plates itself are acceptable with certain defect to an extent, such as lamination. Please note that the more emphasis shall be on the properties & bonding of the plates.

 

4. We had used the clad plates with similar issue and with no PDR, in my previous organisation. The base plate size was 3050 x 12000mm. And getting the SS plate in the same size is not always practical. You can also check with your clad plate supplier, as they would had surely supplied plates with similar issue without PDR.

 

I hope, this would be justifying. And still, If AI is confirming that PDR is required, then i would be keen to know as per which clause of the standard. Looking forward to have your response.

 

Dokku Ajay Kumar
Mobile: +966 500071054

---

From: Vino Varghese <vinopv...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Sun, January 23, 2011 3:12:56 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:9414] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End

[bas karan]

Dear Ajay,

Hi to all,

i am also facing same type of issue.

i have bought a tubesheet for heat exchanger, CS(SA266Gr2) base metal with SS316L(SA240) clad plate 10 mm thick.

My AI said, need to get the PDR from the vendor. But the vendor is no stamp holder.

ASME VIII Div.1 - UW-27(2), explosive bonding included in pressure welding process and 

added in ENDNOTES (70) - explosive welding—a solid state welding process wherein coalescence is produced by the application of pressure by

means of an explosion.

and another thins is clad plate is for corrosive resistance only, design calculation did not considered this clad plate thickness.

please explain to me, what are the acitivities required to proceed without PDR.

Thanking you 

Baskaran.V

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

The cladded tube sheet is not provided with an MTR in accordance with a standard for claded plates acceptable by Section VIII-1?

Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone.

From: bas karan Sent: Παρασκευή, 23 Οκτωβρίου 2015 - 11:45 To: Materials & Welding Reply To: material...@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [MW:23785] ASME Sec VIII, Div 1, Pressure Vessel/ Dish End

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Materials & Welding" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to materials-weld...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to material...@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/materials-welding.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/3695a6be-734c-4b19-bdbd-c0265314cd9a%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

This message contains confidential information. To know more, please click on the following link: http://disclaimer.bureauveritas.com

[bas karan]

Dear George,

clad plate complies as per section II Part A specification of SA264. attached clad plate test reports for your reference.

sorry for the late reply.

Regards

Baskaran.v

[george....@gr.bureauveritas.com]

Then there is no need for PMDR

best regards

Dr. Georgios Dilintas

Authorized Nuclear Inspector
Authorized Inspector Supervisor

I&F REGIONAL TECHNICAL MANAGER
BUREAU VERITAS PIRAEUS - GREECE

Tel: +30 210 40 63 113 /4 /5
Fax: +30 210 40 63 118
Cell: +30 69 44 64 62 04


bas karan ---30/10/2015 15:04:31---Dear George, clad plate complies as per section II Part A specification of SA264.

.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/53acd3bc-210f-41c8-8e73-0cecb4180862%40googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.[attachment "CERT-3364.15.pdf" deleted by George H Dilintas/GRC/VERITAS]

[Joseph]

Hi,

Only if dished has a long seam then PDR need to be supplied by the part manufacturer. For explosion bonding no PDR is required, only certification need to obtained as per SA263/264/265 as applicable. 

Sent from my iPad

[Prakash Gotimukul]

I am going through some of the mails and literally the forum is being used as a means of correspondence between two individuals. This against the rules of the group. I urge all members to address the issue to the group and not to individual although a question is raised by individual.

It should be addressed as Dear Experts/ or Nothing. Just put up the point for discussion and ask for a response.

While replying also, you will answer to the point raised, not to the person raising the question.

Hope people who have joined new understand that every individual of the group must get benefitted by the discussion.

As far as possible raise a point and ask for response whether right or wrong.

Individual problems must best be sorted out individually. The group will only help you understand the subject with more information and standard references, but will not solve or give solutions to problems. At most we may agree or disagree on a point.

Hope all members will follow the above and make this forum a high level discussion forum and exchange of info rather than a discussion between two individuals......

Rgds

Prakash Gotimukul

Director HITEK Engineering Services LLC, Dubai South

ASME AIS, Independent Consultant, ASME/ISO/PED

 gpraka...@gmail.com.

Tel: +9714 2778511 Mob:+97152 979 5678

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/67781E78-FA0D-48AE-A053-FA8909CCF1D9%40gmail.com.

[Vino Varghese]

I do agree with Mr. Prakash partially. The initial raised question can be addressed as "Dear Experts" but  subsequently its difficult to maintain the same. Just as an Eg: A third person enters the group after the 14th mail conversion, he won't be in a position to understand the last query if its addressed as "Experts". He might have to run through all the previous conversations. Further, the person who raises the query directly can response if a clarification against his query is required else if it is addressed as "Experts", he might get lost or could get unnoticed. I think the exchange of forum to individual is OK and should be seen in a lighter note. That's my opinion.

Regards, Vino

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/materials-welding/CAOUP4qJnqhU-daz6osrswiUYuQ2fpgFmq2FDG9GOtZ866Zg7ug%40mail.gmail.com.