P91 WELDING ELECTRODES
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Eng/ Mostafa Kamel Hussein
Jun 9, 2011, 10:57:13 AM6/9/11
to material...@googlegroups.com
Can i weld the P91 with E9018 or E9013 instead of E9015-B9? and why?
i need the answer urgently
Regards
SaSa
pgoswami
Jun 9, 2011, 11:49:12 PM6/9/11
to material...@googlegroups.com, mkh...@yahoo.com
Hi SaSa
You're welding P-91 steel not "just
another Cr-Mo steel. Hence you need to look in the
totality.
ASME Sec-II, Part-C,SFA 5.5, classifies welding
electrodes for P-91 steel as 9015, 9016 & 9018 B9.All classifications
are for low hydrogen type consumables.As per Sec-IX,QW-404.12 a change of
coating type/AWS classification is considered as a supplementary essential
variable. If there is no impact test requirement in your
project this change is acceptable to
Sec-IX.
Note for P-91 consumables
there is other factor also, which is not addressed
by Sec-IX. This factor is total Ni+Mn in the weld metal, which
should not exceed 1.5% (higher value will lower the AC1 temperature).
If the final PWHT temperature is more than the AC1 temperature, then
instead of stress relieving @ PWHT temperature fresh martensite will form
on cooling, alternatively if the PWHT is lower then the weld will not get proper
stress relieving.
Both Sec-I (PW-39) and B-31.1(Table -132) specifies
that:-
-
If Ni + Mn < 1.50% but
≥ 1.0%, the maximum PWHT temperature is 1,450°F (790°C). -
If Ni + Mn < 1.0%, the maximum PWHT temperature is 1,470°F (800°C).
It would be
advisable to stick to the approved WPS and preferably
approved brand/make of welding consumable
used for procedure qualification. If the change of welding consumable becomes an absolute
necessity, in addition to normal ASME Sec-II Part -C requirements ,
you need to see the the Ni+Mn content in the CMTR and the results of
mechanical testing following PWHT before making the
change.
I hope this answer would give you some insight on
your problem.
Thanks.
Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE
Welding & Metallurgical Specialist
& Consultant
Ontario,Canada.
Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,
From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eng/ Mostafa Kamel Hussein
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 10:57 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:11288] P91 WELDING ELECTRODES
Can i weld the P91 with E9018 or E9013 (No such spec) instead of
E9015-B9? and why?
i need the answer urgently
Regards
SaSa
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Prasad Joshi
Jun 11, 2011, 4:50:56 AM6/11/11
to material...@googlegroups.com
Mr. SaSa,
In principle, you cannot use this as chemical composition/A-no. will be different for both the electrodes. P91 is a very tricky material due to the Retained Martensite structure and there is a special requirement of Post heating as well as spcial H/T cycle.
I think you may not be able to qualify the PQR. And even if you do, I recommend not to do this type of mix-up in chemistry. The consequences may be disastrous in PV/Pressure piping.
Regards,
Prasad Joshi
--
Frank Cook
Jun 11, 2011, 10:16:59 PM6/11/11
to material...@googlegroups.com
Dear Expert,
I would greatly appreciate any guidance/recommendation for material/welding consumable SMAW-GTAW selection...for sour gas service Flowline/Gathering Pipeline, associated Fittings and 600# Class Ball valve trim/seals etc
Service Parameters:
Gas composition: in mole % C1=88.96, C2=3.66, C3=1.31, iC4=0.38,nC4=0.43, iC5=0.20, nC5=0.17, C6=0.13, C7=0.17, CO2=2.89,
N2=1.57, H2S=350ppmv, H2O = saturated
Flow rate 25 mmscfd (service life 20 years)
Flowlines (Underground)
Temperature: 200 deg F (max)
Pressure 1200psig (max)
Gathering pipeline (Underground)
Temperature: 150 deg F (max)
Pressure 700 psig max
If the Pipe line materials are API 5L X42-X65 (max HRC 22), Forgings: ASTM A105 (max HB 187), Fittings: ASTM A 234 grade WPB – WPC (hot worked max HB 197) Bolting: ASTM 193 B7M (max HRC 22), & ASTM A194 2HM(max HRC 22). Welding Consumables <1% Ni (Low hydrogen controlled) field welds are not to be PWHT if meeting max HRC 22 ?
Or would a CRA clad piping system and fittings be more appropriate option..............subject to not being overly cost inhibited
Many thanks
Frank.
pgoswami
Jun 12, 2011, 3:48:09 PM6/12/11
to mkh...@yahoo.com, material...@googlegroups.com
Hello Mostafa Kamel
Hussein,
Did you have any luck on this issue.
I've compiled the data sheets of a few reputed electrode
manufacturers for your and other's reference. All the electrode
makes conforms to AWS E-9015 or E-9016. The differences are as
follows:-
- E-9015, Low Hydrogen ,Sodium, DCEP
- E-9016, Low Hydrogen , Potassium,AC or DCEP
There were some potential
issues with P-91 electrodes with -E-XX18 coating, in the early years. The
attached article from Sperko Engineering and many other articles (as of
year 2007-2008) advised to stay away from E-XX18 coating due to the chances of
introducing residual elements and increasing chances of cracking.
If there had been
product improvements off late and if you have access to those feel free to
share.
Thanks.
Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE
Welding & Metallurgical Specialist
& Consultant
Ontario,Canada.
Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,
From: pgoswami [mailto:pgos...@quickclic.net]
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 11:49 PM
To: 'material...@googlegroups.com'
Cc: 'mkh...@yahoo.com'
Subject: RE: 11288] P91 WELDING ELECTRODES
Hi SaSa
You're welding P-91 steel not "just
another Cr-Mo steel. Hence you need to look in the
totality.
ASME Sec-II, Part-C,SFA 5.5, classifies welding
electrodes for P-91 steel as 9015, 9016 & 9018 B9.All classifications
are for low hydrogen type consumables.As per Sec-IX,QW-404.12 a change of
coating type/AWS classification is considered as a supplementary essential
variable. If there is no impact test requirement in your
project this change is acceptable to
Sec-IX.
Note for P-91 consumables
there is other factor also, which is not addressed
by Sec-IX. This factor is total Ni+Mn in the weld metal, which
should not exceed 1.5% (higher value will lower the AC1 temperature).
If the final PWHT temperature is more than the AC1 temperature, then
instead of stress relieving @ PWHT temperature fresh martensite will form
on cooling, alternatively if the PWHT is lower then the weld will not get proper
stress relieving.
Both Sec-I (PW-39) and B-31.1(Table -132) specifies
that:-
-
If Ni + Mn < 1.50% but
≥ 1.0%, the maximum PWHT temperature is 1,450°F (790°C). -
If Ni + Mn < 1.0%, the maximum PWHT temperature is 1,470°F (800°C).
It would be
advisable to stick to the approved WPS and preferably
approved brand/make of welding consumable
used for procedure qualification. If the change of welding consumable becomes an absolute
necessity, in addition to normal ASME Sec-II Part -C requirements ,
you need to see the the Ni+Mn content in the CMTR and the results of
mechanical testing following PWHT before making the
change.
I hope this answer would give you some insight on
your problem.
Thanks.
Pradip Goswami,P.Eng.IWE
Welding & Metallurgical Specialist
& Consultant
Ontario,Canada.
Email-pgoswami@sympatico.ca,
From: material...@googlegroups.com [mailto:material...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Eng/ Mostafa Kamel Hussein
Sent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 10:57 AM
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [MW:11288] P91 WELDING ELECTRODES
Can i weld the P91 with E9018 or E9013 (No such spec) instead of
E9015-B9? and why?
i need the answer urgently
Regards
SaSa
--
kannayeram gnanapandithan
Jun 15, 2011, 11:32:43 AM6/15/11
to material...@googlegroups.com
U can weld P91 with E9018 instead of E9015, But there is advantage in using E9015/16 instead E9018 as follows
CRATER CRACKING AND OTHER UNDESIRABLE GRAIN BOUNDRY PHENOMENA CAN BE MINIMIZED BY ORDERING WELD METAL WITH LOW RESIDUAL ELEMENT CONTENT.( X<15 AS APPLICABLE)
THE 15/16 COATINGS NORMALLY POSSES LESS IRON POWDER AND EXHIBIT LOWER RESIDUAL ELEMENT CONTENT. THESE ARE OFFERED TO REDUCE THE POTENTIAL FOR PROBLEMS THAT OCCUR AS A RESULT OF LOW MELTING CONTITUENTS OR OTHER PRECIPATES THAT INFLUENCE GRAIN BOUNDRY INTEGRITY
PANDITHAN
IN-CHARGE/WELDING TECHNOLOGY
CETHAR LIMITED
TRICHY
On Thu, Jun 9, 2011 at 8:27 PM, Eng/ Mostafa Kamel Hussein <mkh...@yahoo.com> wrote:
--
Sojin K soman
Nov 24, 2011, 10:29:34 PM11/24/11
to material...@googlegroups.com, mkh...@yahoo.com
Mr.Sasa,
E9013 cannot be used as because it is a rutile electrode. It will create hydrogen cracking.So u have to use low hydrogen electrode. E9018 is low hydrogen electrode but the problem is E9018 having 25% iron extra iron powder in flux coating to improve weld deposition. So there is chance of contaminants to get involve into the weld metal. as iron powder may contain contaminants. it will affect the quality of weld metal. E 9015 is plain low hydrogen electrode. So for better welding quality you go for E E9015 -B9
From: Prasad Joshi <sur...@gmail.com>
To: material...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2011 4:50 PM
Subject: Re: [MW:11303] P91 WELDING ELECTRODES
pgos...@sympatico.ca
Nov 25, 2011, 9:48:13 AM11/25/11
to material...@googlegroups.com
Hello Sasa,
E-9015/9016-9018-B9 are the three popular AWS classifications for SMAW welding electrodes which applies for grade -91 steel. E-9018-H4 are the latest developments, however the manufacturers endorsement is essential.
You may find the following article as of interest the use of E-9018-H4 electrodes.:-
E-9015/9016-9018-B9 are the three popular AWS classifications for SMAW welding electrodes which applies for grade -91 steel. E-9018-H4 are the latest developments, however the manufacturers endorsement is essential.
You may find the following article as of interest the use of E-9018-H4 electrodes.:-