E6013 not Applicable for High Thickness material

[Amit Vishwakarma]

Dear Expert

It has been observed that practically that E6013 electrode generally used for low thickness material i.e less than 20mm thickness however E7018 become mandatory for high thickness on the same material in structural work.
Kindly give your opinion refer to standard.

Regards

Amit Vishwakarma

[George Dilintas]

6013 is mainly used on pipeline projects for the root pass because it gives good penetration

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Dr. Georgios Dilintas,

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Welding, Stress Analysis, Corrosion, QA/QC, Failure Analysis, Risk Analysis

[Mohd Siraj]

E6010 NOT E6013 USED FOR PIPELINE ROOT.

6013 IS STRUCTURE GENERAL PURPOAE ELECTRODE.

[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

Siraj

       What is the reason ?

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

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On Tue, May 24, 2016 at 9:45 PM, Mohd Siraj <mohd...@gmail.com> wrote:

E6010 NOT E6013 USED FOR PIPELINE ROOT.

6013 IS STRUCTURE GENERAL PURPOAE ELECTRODE.

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[JIJILAL K M]

Dear Amit,

E- 6010 - Cellulose flux having deep penetration property , recommended for root pass welding of cross country pipe lines.

E-7018  - Basic Coated , Low hydrogen ,iron powder type electrodes having more tensile strength recommended for  filler                     and cover pass welding (after root and hot pass by GTAW)  piping fabrication.

E-6013 -  Rutile (titania)  flux is recommended for general purpose welding (say Gate /grill fabrication).

first two is considered where radiographic quality weld is required.

JIJILAL K.M. 

QA/QC Manager,

Thai Jurong Engineering Ltd,

KCE SPP Project,Thailand

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

do u mean that u can not get RT quality in 6013? for lesser thick also

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On Wed, May 25, 2016 at 10:06 AM, Kannayeram Gnanapandithan <kgpan...@gmail.com> wrote:

why u are not using 6010 for entire thickness or why  are not using 7010,

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[JIJILAL K M]

Dear KG P,

E-6013 is generally recommended for general purpose welding as far as overall quality is concerned  .that doesn't means E-6013 not suitable for high quality welding.

JIJILAL K.M. 

QA/QC Manager,

Thai Jurong Engineering Ltd,

KCE SPP Project,Thailand

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[George Dilintas]

This happens when some peolple like me dont want to admit that they getting old and dont use glasses.

The type of coating, and thus the arc properties are making the difference.

I would say that 6013 should not use for critical welds

2016-05-24 19:15 GMT+03:00 Mohd Siraj <mohd...@gmail.com>:

E6010 NOT E6013 USED FOR PIPELINE ROOT.

6013 IS STRUCTURE GENERAL PURPOAE ELECTRODE.

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[George Dilintas]

I would never recommend E6013 for main load bearing members welding unless the designer has considered very high safety structures. For steel structures under EuroCode 3 almost nobody is using E6013. E7018 or FCAW with E71T-1 for example. Some specs do not allow at all GMAW for critical structures 

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[John Henning]

Not saying E6013 could not be used for welding thicker sections but there are significant downsides to doing so. 

 

First, you sacrifice around 15% off the top on tensile strength compared to an  E70XX (XX=15,16,18) electrode.  Depending on design/application, you will require greater thickness for the same loading.  If subjected to fatigue loading, the greater thickness required will have an adverse effect on fatigue life.   

 

Secondly the shallow penetration, for which this electrode was designed, can cause problems with lack of fusion defects at the weld/pass root and/or slag inclusions at the root.  These can be prevented by close attention to weld preparation and weld technique but are more easily avoided by using an electrode with greater penetration.

 

Ignoring sheet metal fabrication or poor fit up issues, the only real advantage to use of E6013 are the lower skill level required to make visually appealing welds.   Visual appearance of the finished weld should be excellent;  flat, smooth, even ripples.

 

In my section of the country, one will find the E6013 is often referred to as ”farmer rod”.  You can read into to that whatever you like.

 

Enjoy.

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[Varun Ur]

Dear amit

6013 can be used for higher thickness for structural weld but was D1.1 calls for pre heat for thickness above 20 MM , if you are using low hydrogen coated electrode you can skip this pre heat requirement up to certain thickness.
Also you get higher deposition rate for 7018.
And of course you can get good radiographic quality weld with 6013 also.
So weigh your pros and cons based on application limitations.

Cheers
Varun

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[JIJILAL K M]

Dear Amit,

Recommending E-7018 for higher thickness structure steel welding is by considering following factors.

1, When thickness increase the load bearing capacity of structure increases - so flaw less welding required.

    since 7018 is low hydrogen type we can ensure less hydrogen induced weld defects by maintaining 

    proper electrode baking before welding.

2, As per structure code , full penetration butt weld joints required RT/UT, fillet joints need MT/PT.

    here E-7018 is better option than 6013

3. For thicker sections , more layer of welding /deposition required. other than 6013 , E-7018  flux having iron in fine       powdered form which will supplement 15-20% additional metal in deposited metal(called high deposition efficiency).This will help for minimum usage of  manpower , filler metal, electric power .

4. E-7018  required more welding skill from welder side. So only qualified welder shall be used. All this will assure you good quality welding in the end if you prefer E-7018 electrode.

JIJILAL K.M. 

QA/QC Manager,

Thai Jurong Engineering Ltd,

KCE SPP Project,Thailand

#096 786 0129

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

since 6013 having higher hydrogen level say >15 to 30ml, when this is used in multilayer weld(higher thick), lot hydrogen will get into weldmetal till haz, in later it will be subjected to HICC. so low hydrogen electrode are better compared with 6010,6013 etc.

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CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

JKM,   Why 6010 is preferred for root run in cross country pipeline welding?

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CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

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[Mohd Siraj]

What a great sense of humour by mr george sir.

[Suchin K.]

In my opinions E-6010 is a high penetrate electrode there is good for root pass for made root full penetration, usually for Pipe line downhill direction (root pass only)

 

 

 

 

Thanks and Best Regards

 

               

 

Suchin Katavut               

Managing Director

SK NDT & Inspection Co., Ltd. (SK NDT)

President

The Thai Welding and Inspection Association

Tel (+662) 327 4422 (auto) Fax. (+662) 327 4029

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

what is logic behind it?

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[JIJILAL K M]

Dear KGP,

E-6010 cellulose electrodes have an unique feature of high penetration arc jet , which ensure sufficient fusion and penetration during root pass welding.

when we train cross country  welders, ask them to note jet sound during the entire course of each electrode which it self confirm correct  penetration.

JIJILAL K.M. 

QA/QC Manager,

Thai Jurong Engineering Ltd,

KCE SPP Project,Thailand

#096 786 0129

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[Lakshman Kumar. B]

Hi friends,

 

Generally 6010 which is cellulose type coted electrode for root pass, and for fill & final runs preferred for 6013…

6010 is burning on DC+(reverse polarity), whereas 6013 can burn in AC, DC (+/-)…

This is also one reason 6010 gives good penetration…

 

There is no technical code that 6013 should not be used for higher thickness (say above 20mm) – if anyone is having any code references in this regard please correct me…

 

It becomes a practice to client to say, use “good electrode” than a regular one – “as I am putting more money to purchase a high thick material and it’s a complicated work(so only going for high thickness)” – there is no logic behind this….

 

Further this is my personal experience – for 25mm thick I used 6013 with proper WPS –

 

6013 is widely used electrode as a reason of free availability and low in cost, that’s so clients are thinking to propose a higher grade than existing…

 

By using 6013 we can develop weld qualities of RT with “NSD” and without any additional efforts and is easy to weld…

 

 

No doubt that 7018 is having its advantages than 6013 – but it’s not limited / connected to base material thickness

So, don’t get confused that for higher thickness 6013 is not suitable –

 

 

Thanks & Regards,

Lakshman Kumar B,

+91 9440031459.

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

to my knowledge, 6010 is having around >30<60ppm of Hydrogen.   During welding, in high temp, it decomposes cellulose & water which generate carbon monoxide and high level Hydrogen

 Hydrogen is poor electrical conductor and has the high ionization potential that causes the resistance of the Arc opening to increase and Electron emission to decrease, which result in a higher Arc Voltage and more penetrating Arc, that is why it is being used  in cross country pipeline for root run

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[JIJILAL K M]

Dear KGP,

 

Your explanation in cellulose electrode arc character and its intention for using pipeline root pass welding is very correct.

JIJILAL K.M. 

QA/QC Manager,

Thai Jurong Engineering Ltd,

KCE SPP Project,Thailand

#096 786 0129

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[John Henning]

All that aside, almost any welder can tell you why E6010 or E6011 electrodes are preferred for welding open roots in the field. This information can easily be found in older basic welding texts.  Note that Lincoln Electric historically referred to these electrodes as “fast freeze”.   The cellulosic electrodes have deep penetration but more importantly the light slagging nature results in very rapid solidification in comparison to comparable sized electrodes of other classes.  Because the slagging is light, there is no problem with controlling slag to prevent rolling under arc.  The deep penetration  assures that, with proper manipulation, side wall fusion is complete.  With a proper whipping technique, varying gap (root opening) can be accommodated with little or no problem due to the rapid solidification (fast freeze). The light slag combined with the deep penetration also minimizes the potential for slag inclusions. 

 

Because of the high diffusible hydrogen content, typically only root will be made with the 10 or 11 rod.  Subsequent passes made with low hydrogen, E7018.  This limits the potential for hydrogen assisted (delayed cracking).  Of minor importance is that appearance also would suffer as 10 or 11 rods typically appear rough and ropey.

 

Sometimes it pays to look for the old, simpler information.

 

Enjoy.

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[Mohd Siraj]

moreover to Mr pandithan,

With E6010 slag removal is very easy.,

very thin slag of root will go away during piping hydrotest or flushing.

[Alan Denney]

Be aware that cellulosic coated (EXX10) electrodes are still widely used for welding the full thickness of butt welds in pipelines, with the root welded with E6010 and the fill matching the strength requirements of the line pipe. Welding is done ‘downhill’. John Henning’s note explains the benefits of E6010 for the root pass and these characteristics are of value throughout the welding process. Hydrogen control is achieved by preheating and welding (virtually) continuously to keep the joint hot to aid hydrogen diffusion. Good radiographic quality is achieved. These electrodes do have their limitations and increasingly automated GMAW systems are used where they can.

 

Alan Denney

AKD Materials Consulting Ltd

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[Suchin Katavut]

Because of almost of low hydrogen electrode right E-7016, E-7018 or E-7010 are very difficult made root pass full penetration that is why we used high penetrate electrodes right E-6010 however there will be automatic post heat the root weld pass by next runs by using E-7010(downhill pipeline) and or E-7016/7018 filling and cap pass

It may not right but just by owned opinion 

Regards 

Sent from my iPhone

On 26 พ.ค. 2559, at 13:56, Kannayeram Gnanapandithan <kgpan...@gmail.com> wrote:

what is logic behind it?

THANKS & BEST REGARDS,

KG.PANDITHAN, IWE,  AWS-CWI, CSWIP 3.1,

CONSULTANT-WELDING & QUALITY

Mobile no: +919940739349

On Thu, May 26, 2016 at 10:31 AM, Suchin K. <suc...@skndt.com> wrote:

In my opinions E-6010 is a high penetrate electrode there is good for root pass for made root full penetration, usually for Pipe line downhill direction (root pass only)

 

 

 

 

Thanks and Best Regards

 

               

 

Suchin Katavut               

Managing Director

SK NDT & Inspection Co., Ltd. (SK NDT)

President

The Thai Welding and Inspection Association

Tel (+662) 327 4422 (auto) Fax. (+662) 327 4029

Email; suc...@skndt.com ,Cell Phone (+66) 81 889 4912

w.w.w.skndt.com

<image001.jpg>    <image002.jpg>      <image003.jpg>     <image004.png>

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[Suchin Katavut]

Hello Jijilal

E-6010 as per your mentioned is completely correct

Sent from my iPhone

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[Kannayeram Gnanapandithan]

No one debating on X-ray quality, but only concern is Cold Crack?  in Higher thick say >13mm

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