Rpi3, Beagleboard X15, And Avnet Ultra96

[Michael Brown]

I would like to present an interresting mksoc candidate I have, been able to

do some prelimonary evasstigations on:

http://zedboard.org/product/ultra96

Cpu wise in same club as the Rpi3 and Beagleboard X15

Same price as the x15 if you import from usa:

my import clause for consideration(https://drive.google.com/open?id=16r6Bn-AeZ5RZyROAEXuPaOLFylihsUVm):

Fpga fabric ~4x DE10 Nano roughly.

I/O wise 16 1.8v I/O out of the box + High speed mezaine + ??

A 3.3v/5v adaptor (audio mezz..) is still available for $5 incl freight (ask).

Mali 400 Gpu.

Unique for its price class.... 

First it finally gave me the oppertunity to get started with Vivado (2018.2), and

this has been a very pleasent experience as I find it much mor mature, comprehensive and informative

than the Altera based tools sill available.

The ultra96 comes with petalinux based upon yocto/ openembedded.

Via my build script(s) I have also been able to get it running Debian stretch and Ubuntu bionic,

with 14xx kernel however only with software framebuffer as the Mali 400 gpu drivers are wierd. 

On the interesting node I have initiated a request at the danish Xilinx distributors seeking a license to be able to do partial reconfiguration of the fpga part in an open source environment.

This is where the ultra96 board would be very interesting to play with in an embedded setup. 

As you then can swap audio dsp functionality/in and out live in a modular fashion..... 

Very best wishes

[Charles Steinkuehler]

That should be a good board to work with. Sort-of limited I/O, but
the 96 boards form-factor is becoming a lot more common. At some
point, someone will make a breakout board for that. :)

I've been working with the Zynq Ultrascale+ parts (the ZCU104 dev
board) for RealJob, and it's a nice platform. At least with a 64-bit
DDR memory the system feels a *LOT* more like a general computer and
much less like a low-powered embedded system (eg: the BeagleBone and
the Cyclone-V SoC parts).

Holler if you need any help. I've got Debian aarch64 running on my
ZCU104, which wasn't hard. I just ran the Xilinx Petalinux stuff to
build the boot-loader and kernel, and used debootstrap to make the
initial rootfs image.

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net

[Claudio Lorini]

Nice and compact board, but i cannot understand the choice of removing wired Ethernet. 

Also missing CAN bus comms, so for 'usual' control applications a daughter-board is required 

and the somewhat limited IOs gets plundered even more...

 

[Michael Brown]

Great 

I have purchased 2 usb3/c 1gbit Ethernet hubs , and expect to be able to do some tests of disabling the wireless chip within a week or so and only using cabled lan.

Charles: 

I have been unable to figure out how to install / configure the Mali GPU stuff. So I will ping you when I'm back from sick leave due to getting  overexposed during the heatwave in my flat/appartment.

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[Michael Brown]

Now having some experience with Vivado and the Ultra96 I'm thinking of following up on this..

Xilinx has a Ultra96 Debian buster image online here as a starting point:

https://www.xilinx.com/products/design-tools/ai-inference/ai-developer-hub.html#edge

Next to find out how to install (aarch64) ARM64 Machinekit.

Are there yet arm64 Machinekit packages online ?

Or

What are the commands for building mk-hal/cnc from source (been a while since I last built debs...)

Best wishes

Michael Brown

On Friday, 17 August 2018 22:12:33 UTC+2, Michael Brown wrote:

Great 

I have purchased 2 usb3/c 1gbit Ethernet hubs , and expect to be able to do some tests of disabling the wireless chip within a week or so and only using cabled lan.

Charles: 

I have been unable to figure out how to install / configure the Mali GPU stuff. So I will ping you when I'm back from sick leave due to getting  overexposed during the heatwave in my flat/appartment.

On Wed, Aug 8, 2018, 08:15 Claudio Lorini <claudio...@iit.it> wrote:

Nice and compact board, but i cannot understand the choice of removing wired Ethernet. 

Also missing CAN bus comms, so for 'usual' control applications a daughter-board is required 

and the somewhat limited IOs gets plundered even more...

 

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[Charles Steinkuehler]

On 8/24/2019 5:19 AM, Michael Brown wrote:
> Now having some experience with Vivado and the Ultra96 I'm thinking of
> following up on this..
> Xilinx has a Ultra96 Debian buster image online here as a starting point:
> https://www.xilinx.com/products/design-tools/ai-inference/ai-developer-hub.html#edge

Looks like an interesting board. The Ultrascale+ parts are really
nice to work with. I support a ZCU104 design for my Day Job that runs
video compression/streaming between the HDMI ports and Ethernet.

NOTE: I have a uSD image that's "Plain ole Debian" if you want
something more generic to work with than the Xilinx AI SDK. It's for
the ZCU104 but you should be able to use it as-is with the Ultra96 if
you swap out the boot files (kernel, device-tree, & U-Boot). Let me
know if you're interested.

> Next to find out how to install (aarch64) ARM64 Machinekit.
> Are there yet arm64 Machinekit packages online ?
> Or
> What are the commands for building mk-hal/cnc from source (been a while
> since I last built debs...)

It's been ages since I've compiled from source. I always just look at
the CI files and do it manually:

https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/.travis.yml#L92

https://github.com/machinekit/machinekit/blob/master/scripts/build_docker

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net

[Michael Brown]

Well I found my notes building debs for the armhf is a peice of cake (and takes around 2 min)

## ------------ newest -------------------#

cd machinekit-hal

time scripts/build_docker -t armhf_9 -c deb

cd machinekit-cnc

time scripts/build_docker -t armhf_9 -c deb

## ---------------------------------------#

However build scripts / instructions have no arm64 support and I can only find scattered attempts of building for arm64 soc's,

and most importantly no real sucessfull arm64 machinekit run reports.

Since I have no idea how armhf support was added (before mksocfpga), I have no clue as to what is needed to be added to gain arm64

(deb) compilation support, which I see as a requirement for adding the xilinx (arm64) mpsoc based Ultra96 board port to mksocfpga....?

I'd rather Not have to start by messing around with (uninstructed) arm64 rip builds, and then have to do the Vivado 2018.x fpga work on top of that

following a (possible) arm64 package build... ?

[Michael Brown]

BTW:

Beagleboard x15 is armv7-a --> armhf ?

It seems like the rpi3's can run armhf compiled software, I do not know if this requires the whole os to be armhf compiled also ?

Perhaps it would be possible to run MK armhf style compiled on the Ultra96, how to go about testing that and is this a viable solution ?

[Michael Brown]

Perhaps it would be possible to run MK armhf style compiled on the Ultra96, how to go about testing that and is this a viable solution ?

I meant run the armhf .debs on the Ultra96 board.  

[charles...@gmail.com]

The Ultra96 is simply the most powerful embedded processor I've ever used!

When loaded with PYNQ, a Python environment that runs in Jupyter it turns into a powerful platform for FPGA development. Using a Ultra96 is akin to taking an A10 Warthog to a gunfight.

[Michael Brown]

OK decided to attempt the RIP method and after a dependency nightmare (and enabling a swap file) got a full compilation,

with the scripts/build_with_cnc method.

********************************

Ready to run full machinekit RIP

********************************

real    18m56,876s

user    60m38,652s

sys     4m32,197s

Later I was able to run machinekit command and the setup GUI pops up very satisfying however

I was not able to run the simulator (havn't tried the sim before :-) )

following messages appear in the console;

linaro@ultra96:~$ machinekit

MACHINEKIT - 0.2

Machine configuration directory is '/home/linaro/machinekit-hal/configs/sim'

Machine configuration file is 'axis-iocontrolv2-demo-ubuntu8.04.ini'

Starting Machinekit...

rtapi_msgd command:  /home/linaro/machinekit-hal/libexec/rtapi_msgd --instance=0 --rtmsglevel=1 --usrmsglevel=1 --halsize=524288

rtapi_app command:  /home/linaro/machinekit-hal/libexec/rtapi_app_posix --instance=0

iov2 -support-start-change started

halcmd loadusr iov2 -support-start-change started

task pid=4400

emcTaskInit: using builtin interpreter

Traceback (most recent call last):

  File "/home/linaro/machinekit-hal/bin/axis", line 122, in <module>

    nf.start(root_window)

  File "/home/linaro/machinekit-hal/lib/python/nf.py", line 119, in start

    source_lib_tcl(r, "support.tcl")

  File "/home/linaro/machinekit-hal/lib/python/nf.py", line 111, in source_lib_tcl

    r.tk.call("source", os.path.join(tcl_libdir, f))

_tkinter.TclError: can't find package Img

Shutting down and cleaning up Machinekit...

[justin White]

On Sunday, August 25, 2019 at 11:54:32 AM UTC-4, c.gl...@cox.net wrote:

The Ultra96 is simply the most powerful embedded processor I've ever used!

When loaded with PYNQ, a Python environment that runs in Jupyter it turns into a powerful platform for FPGA development. Using a Ultra96 is akin to taking an A10 Warthog to a gunfight.

The processor is quad core A53's so it's about the same as a Rpi3  which is probably twice as fast as the dual core A9's on a DE10-Nano and the FPGA is a bit bigger as well. It's by no means "fast" in the ARM world but for an socfpga it's pretty stoudt. 

[ce...@tuta.io]

Aug 25, 2019, 20:52 by mib.hol...@gmail.com:

You seem to be still in hell, this time in run-time section. Try installing libtk-img or whatever else which seems appropriate. (It is a shotgun approach, but it worked for me in the past.)

Cern

>
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 25 August 2019 17:54:32 UTC+2, c.gl...@cox.net wrote:
>
>> The Ultra96 is simply the most powerful embedded processor I've ever used!
>>
>> When loaded with PYNQ, a Python environment that runs in Jupyter it turns into a powerful platform for FPGA development. Using a Ultra96 is akin to taking an A10 Warthog to a gunfight.
>>
>
>
>

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>

[Michael Brown]

Thanx for the pointer ,,, yeah hell these commands later I was able to open Axis simulator:

sudo apt install libtk-img

sudo apt install python-avahi

sudo apt install python-gtkglext1

sudo apt install python-gtksourceview2

sudo apt install python-xlib

:-)

Now onto the Vivado stuff:

1. First It would be nice to be able to peek into the existing projects:

https://github.com/machinekit/mksocfpga/tree/master/HW/VivadoProjects

sudo pip install protobuf

mib@kdeneon-ws:~/Developer/the-snowwhite_git/mksocfpga/HW/VivadoProjects$ ./make_bitfile.sh  microzed/microzed_jd2cb/7z020_config
/home/mib/Developer/the-snowwhite_git/mksocfpga/HW/VivadoProjects/microzed/microzed_jd2cb/microzed_jd2cb_7z020_created/microzed_jd2cb_7z020_ol.dts
make: Nothing to be done for 'py-proto'.
./make_bitfile.sh: 83: ./make_bitfile.sh: /opt/Xilinx/Vivado/2015.4/bin/vivado: not found

Nasty ...

Wonder if the Vivado docker image still is online ?

On Sunday, 25 August 2019 23:07:34 UTC+2, ce...@tuta.io wrote:

Aug 25, 2019, 20:52 by mib.ho...@gmail.com:

>  To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to > machi...@googlegroups.com <mailto:machinekit+unsub...@googlegroups.com>> .

[Michael Brown]

OK 

https://github.com/dkhughes/vivado-docker/tree/master

plug & pray ?

[Michael Brown]

OK

Turns out I was able to grab a zip of the last workspace from the online Vivado builder

Edit the path from /work/HW/VivadoProjects

to where I had placed the unziped folder

and then load/update the zturn_ztio_7z010 project (for which I have a board)

in Vivado 2018.3

and run full synthesis and implementation

:-)

[Michael Brown]

So now have a fully compiled and implemented Ultra96 design, just have to figure out how to test it...(pin file, device tree etc).

It would be nice af someone could spin up a 2018.3 Vivado Docker Image...

(or input some very verbose instructions as to how) :-)

[justin White]

Curious what the current use case for the ultra96 might be. There's mezzanines available that are suitable for machine control as far as I'm aware. The "high density" "low density" gpio connectors look like a PIA to work with. If they stuck that SOC on a form factor similar to the DE10 Nano it'd be pretty serious.

[Michael Brown]

Thinking DExx gpio wise:

As I'm struggeling to find out exact how fast a datarate the pins on the Mezzaine connector have, this is just pure speculation, however:

The mezzanine has 16 differential I/O's (plus some dedicated differential clock pins), So it might be possible to 

create a highspeed serial bus there and route to 2 x 36 parallel GPIO pins (DExx style) ?

[justin White]

I think 96boards provides schematics for most of their boards, when I get home I’ll look at it but I “think” the differential signaling is done with the FPGA, not external hardware. If that’s  the case I would just see if it’s possible to change them to straight I/O pins which is better suited to hm2.

That connector is meant as a high speed board to board interconnect but it’s not something I think really matters for machine control. You want differential signaling to cancel out noise on the wires leaving the board, you don’t need it to data at high speeds. If possible it’s better to program them as straight gpio pins and use external circuits that are tolerant to field voltages to handle differential splitting.

Sent from my iPhone

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[Michael Brown]

@Charles:

NOTE: I have a uSD image that's "Plain ole Debian" if you want 
something more generic to work with than the Xilinx AI SDK.  It's for 
the ZCU104 but you should be able to use it as-is with the Ultra96 if 
you swap out the boot files (kernel, device-tree, & U-Boot).  Let me 
know if you're interested.

Swapping out the BOOT.BIN and adding image.ub from the U96 petalinux bsp to the AI image

gives about 1 min of gui access before rebooting, re-placing the rootfs with the petalinux one fixes the reboots, however ...too minimal

I think its time to make that call, for your "Plain ole Debian" rootfs.

Is it Stretch ?

 

On Saturday, 24 August 2019 14:20:49 UTC+2, Charles Steinkuehler wrote:

[Charles Steinkuehler]

On 8/27/2019 12:16 PM, Michael Brown wrote:
> @Charles:
>
> NOTE: I have a uSD image that's "Plain ole Debian" if you want
>> something more generic to work with than the Xilinx AI SDK. It's for
>> the ZCU104 but you should be able to use it as-is with the Ultra96 if
>> you swap out the boot files (kernel, device-tree, & U-Boot). Let me
>> know if you're interested.
>
> Swapping out the BOOT.BIN and adding image.ub from the U96 petalinux bsp to
> the AI image
> gives about 1 min of gui access before rebooting, re-placing the rootfs
> with the petalinux one fixes the reboots, however ...too minimal

Make sure the device tree is copied over as well. Depending on the
setup the device tree can be in the BOOT.BIN file, in image.ub, a
separate file, stored in raw sectors on the boot media, etc.

> I think its time to make that call, for your "Plain ole Debian" rootfs.
> Is it Stretch ?

Yes, it's stretch but it probably wouldn't take much to migrate to Buster.

I'll PM you a link to the uSD images. If you (or anyone else) is
interested in the source (I've got scripts for building full working
uSD images for the Zybo-Z7-20 and ZCU104 from scratch), follow along
below:

Hit the following link, scroll to the bottom, and click the download
link for the Embedded SDK:

https://www.newtek.com/ndi/sdk/

After installing the SDK, the uSD README file has the links to the
images. The scripts for building the uSD Image are in the
fpga_reference_design/os_uSD/ directory.

The root filesystem is virtually identical for both images, one's just
armhf and the other is aarch64. They are almost bone-stock Debian
installs, with a few minor tweaks here and there (mostly customizing
the login prompt & such) as well as a couple "magic" bits you'll
likely want to keep (like generating ssh keys and resizing the uSD
partition on first boot).

Depending on how the 96 boards image is setup, it may be easier to
copy the boot loader & such onto my uSD images, or it may work better
to copy (rsync) the contents of the rootfs onto their image. My
Debian rootfs system is agnostic with regards to where it lives, as
long as you pass an appropriate root= command to the kernel. :)

--
Charles Steinkuehler
cha...@steinkuehler.net

[Michael Brown]

@Charles

I didn't have much luck with your image working with the Ultra96 2018.3 Petalinux bsp (the BOOT.BIN), as this has a watchdog timeout

that needs to be triggered by some udev stuff I found in the petalinus rootfs. I could only get it to work in my own build scripot generated rootfs.

(otherwise it times out and triggers a reset in 60 sec from boot).

Also porting from the existing zturn (ztio_10) configs has only led to the uio port writing zeros (no data).

Looking into:

If the (latest and newest) vivado/petalinux 2019.1 had some interresting new stuff I noticed:

Partial Reconfiguration Licenses for Partial Reconfiguration are no longer required for any Vivado Edition

Hmmm.....

AFAIK the ultra96 needs to be fpga configured on boot to be able to start linux (at least with a gui and power manangement),

this (new stuff) opens the door for being able to swap in (and out) the hm2 mesa pin configs from the Machinekit SW.

(with a boot configured fpga)

Also a new configure/compile system based on the partial re-confuguration scheme, has to/can be conceptualized/realized ...?  

[Michael Brown]

Just to clarify a mistake in the top post:

Beaglebone x15 + the new AI model are fully 32-bit --> armhf

Rpi3 HW is fully 64 bit capable (cortex A53),

Rpi3 SW (os) is still 32-bit ATM --> armhf

Leaving the Ultra96 as sole contender with FULL 64-bit HW & SW support --> aarch64

Sorry for the earlier confusion...

[Michael Brown]

I have released a Ultra96 beta sd Image including (a) mksocfpga bitfile

For those ready to testrun mksocfpga amr64

https://github.com/the-snowwhite/soc-image-buildscripts/releases/tag/mk-ultra96_pre

Time to begin warming up for release party :-)

[justin White]

What's the I/O on this thing look like in hm2?

[Michael Brown]

Initial Pinfile

I/O routing

First it finally gave me the opportunity to get started with Vivado (2018.2), and

this has been a very pleasant experience as I find it much more mature, comprehensive and informative

[ce...@tuta.io]

What about the ultracheap ZYNQ boards coming from China like this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042572307.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.ffa06f58V00L7M&algo_pvid=1673d04d-c50f-4962-9448-92686905272a&algo_expid=1673d04d-c50f-4962-9448-92686905272a-0&btsid=24d1b06e-03fd-466c-a7b1-dd52368fa2ad&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_53 <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042572307.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.ffa06f58V00L7M&algo_pvid=1673d04d-c50f-4962-9448-92686905272a&algo_expid=1673d04d-c50f-4962-9448-92686905272a-0&btsid=24d1b06e-03fd-466c-a7b1-dd52368fa2ad&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_53> ?

Specifications are low, but the price is very interesting. And for Machinekit-HAL it could be enough.

Cern.


Sep 20, 2019, 15:08 by mib.hol...@gmail.com:

> Initial Pinfile <https://github.com/the-snowwhite/mksocfpga/blob/ultra96-raw/HW/VivadoProjects/ultra96/ultra96_v1/const/PIN_ULTR_36.vhd>
> I/O routing <https://github.com/the-snowwhite/mksocfpga/blob/ultra96-raw/HW/VivadoProjects/ultra96/ultra96_v1/const/u96_v1_pinmap.xdc>

>
>
> On Friday, 20 September 2019 04:34:41 UTC+2, justin White wrote:
>
>> What's the I/O on this thing look like in hm2?
>>
>> On Thursday, September 19, 2019 at 8:19:55 PM UTC-4, Michael Brown wrote:
>>

>>> I have released a >>> Ultra96 beta sd Image including (a) mksocfpga bitfile <https://github.com/the-snowwhite/soc-image-buildscripts/releases/tag/mk-ultra96_pre>

>>> For those ready to testrun mksocfpga amr64
>>>

>>> https://github.com/the->>> snowwhite/soc-image->>> buildscripts/releases/tag/mk->>> ultra96_pre <https://github.com/the-snowwhite/soc-image-buildscripts/releases/tag/mk-ultra96_pre>

>>>
>>> Time to begin warming up for release party :-)
>>>
>>> On Friday, 13 September 2019 17:56:38 UTC+2, Michael Brown wrote:
>>>
>>>> Just to clarify a mistake in the top post:
>>>>
>>>> Beaglebone x15 + the new AI model are fully 32-bit --> armhf
>>>>
>>>> Rpi3 HW is fully 64 bit capable (cortex A53),
>>>> Rpi3 SW (os) is still 32-bit ATM --> armhf
>>>>
>>>> Leaving the Ultra96 as sole contender with FULL 64-bit HW & SW support --> aarch64
>>>>
>>>> Sorry for the earlier confusion...
>>>>
>>>> On Monday, 6 August 2018 16:38:20 UTC+2, Michael Brown wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I would like to present an interresting mksoc candidate I have, been able to
>>>>> do some prelimonary evasstigations on:
>>>>>

>>>>> http://zedboard.org/product/>>>>> ultra96 <http://zedboard.org/product/ultra96>

>>>>>
>>>>> Cpu wise in same club as the Rpi3 and Beagleboard X15
>>>>>
>>>>> Same price as the x15 if you import from usa:

>>>>> my import clause for consideration(>>>>> https://drive.>>>>> google.com/open?id=16r6Bn->>>>> AeZ5RZyROAEXuPaOLFylihsUVm <https://drive.google.com/open?id=16r6Bn-AeZ5RZyROAEXuPaOLFylihsUVm>>>>>> ):

>>>>>
>>>>> Fpga fabric ~4x DE10 Nano roughly.
>>>>> I/O wise 16 1.8v I/O out of the box + High speed mezaine + ??
>>>>>
>>>>> A 3.3v/5v adaptor (audio mezz..) is still available for $5 incl freight (ask).
>>>>>
>>>>> Mali 400 Gpu.
>>>>>
>>>>> Unique for its price class.... 
>>>>>
>>>>> First it finally gave me the opportunity to get started with Vivado (2018.2), and
>>>>> this has been a very pleasant experience as I find it much more mature, comprehensive and informative
>>>>> than the Altera based tools sill available.
>>>>>
>>>>> The ultra96 comes with petalinux based upon yocto/ openembedded.
>>>>>
>>>>> Via my build script(s) I have also been able to get it running Debian stretch and Ubuntu bionic,
>>>>> with 14xx kernel however only with software framebuffer as the Mali 400 gpu drivers are wierd. 
>>>>>
>>>>> On the interesting node I have initiated a request at the danish Xilinx distributors seeking a license to be able to do partial reconfiguration of the fpga part in an open source environment.
>>>>> This is where the ultra96 board would be very interesting to play with in an embedded setup. 
>>>>> As you then can swap audio dsp functionality/in and out live in a modular fashion..... 
>>>>> Very best wishes
>>>>>
>
>
>

> --
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[Michael Brown]

On Monday, 30 September 2019 03:19:06 UTC+2, ce...@tuta.io wrote:

What about the ultracheap ZYNQ boards coming from China like this one: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042572307.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.ffa06f58V00L7M&algo_pvid=1673d04d-c50f-4962-9448-92686905272a&algo_expid=1673d04d-c50f-4962-9448-92686905272a-0&btsid=24d1b06e-03fd-466c-a7b1-dd52368fa2ad&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_53 <https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000042572307.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.ffa06f58V00L7M&algo_pvid=1673d04d-c50f-4962-9448-92686905272a&algo_expid=1673d04d-c50f-4962-9448-92686905272a-0&btsid=24d1b06e-03fd-466c-a7b1-dd52368fa2ad&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_53> ?

Specifications are low, but the price is very interesting. And for Machinekit-HAL it could be enough.

Cern.

Yes the price is alluring and that's about the only thing for what seems like a "cat in the box" board. 

Personally I would not go for a board without at least a template project (and/or a board definition file) and a viewable/readable schematic, downloadable up front.

I these things some how are missing or faulty upon delivery or the board has (hidden)design flaws/issues,

you are better off throwing your cheap money out of the window and spending your time on something else....

Michael B.

[justin White]

I want to like the ultra96 but for the price......I dunno.

Not that it's bad, it's just the DE10-Nano fits the mksocfpga idea I had in mind better. The whole Idea was to keep the graphics and everything off the cpu running HAL and hal as close as possible to the FPGA. I do like the framebuffer of the DE10 as it can serve as an all in one HMI, but where performance matters I like the thought of a remote mk-cnc <=> mk-hal setup. You'd be better off with this board (other than the form factor) either way, but for $250 I dunno.

[Michael Brown]

Firstly you can just run the U96 headless with a console image and ignore the mali gpu with Arms crappy non opensource driver support

until mesa lima wayland support matures into being production ready.

Secondly you have to compare this unique bargain in the right direction (not with a BB AI / rRPI4 or the like), but with

something that has the same chip like this:

https://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/zcu104.html

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[Michael Brown]

Hi Steve

You forgot reply all and your message went off the list, So I have pasted it below.

Excuse me, I am still learning, but how do you compare a Zynq 7010 to a Ultrascale+. ?

Steve C

Well you don't that'a the point you can compare a  the Zynq to a Beaglebone or a rpi3.

The Ultra96 is mpsoc (Ultrascale+ with mali 400) so that why I point at the ZCU104 (similar cpu as rpi4).

Don't let the price fool you.

[justin White]

Actually the ZU3EG in the ultra96 is closer to an rpi3 than an rpi4.

The rpi3 was a quad core A53 @1.2ghz w/1gb DDR2

the ZU3EG is a quad core A53 @1.5ghz (ultra96 has 2gb DDR4)

The Rpi4 is a quad core A72 @ 1.5ghz w/ upto 4gb DDR4

The A72 cores are much better than the A53's. They are only slightly better than A57's but have better power efficiency. So this is basically an overclocked rpi3 with faster/more RAM. Which isn't bad for an socfpga, but the rpi4 will beat it outright all day. While the Mali GPU driver situation is not great at the moment, Mali GPU's are good, much better than videocore N's. Once the OS drivers are sorted (if they ever really are) Mali GPUs will be a blessing, not a curse. 

the ZU3EG also has 2 ARM R-5 "realtime" cores which sound like something fun for interfacing the FPGA, That might make it even better I/O wise but I doubt they have any use in application stuff.

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[Michael Brown]

@Justin

Thanks for the correction (a slip of memory on my behalf).

Anyway the Ultra96 is gen2 socfpga all the others we have are gen1(armhf 32 bit without hw gpu)

Hence I find the price within reasonable (and my budget...)

What also could be interesting is that I thought I saw somewhere that the R5's should be software compatible with the R4's in the BBx15/AI's ..?

The mali lima project (mali 400 open source) went into mesa 19.1 recently and also into the 5.xx? kernel around may or so.

On Thursday, 3 October 2019 11:18:38 UTC+2, justin White wrote:

Actually the ZU3EG in the ultra96 is closer to an rpi3 than an rpi4.

The rpi3 was a quad core A53 @1.2ghz w/1gb DDR2

the ZU3EG is a quad core A53 @1.5ghz (ultra96 has 2gb DDR4)

The Rpi4 is a quad core A72 @ 1.5ghz w/ upto 4gb DDR4

The A72 cores are much better than the A53's. They are only slightly better than A57's but have better power efficiency. So this is basically an overclocked rpi3 with faster/more RAM. Which isn't bad for an socfpga, but the rpi4 will beat it outright all day. While the Mali GPU driver situation is not great at the moment, Mali GPU's are good, much better than videocore N's. Once the OS drivers are sorted (if they ever really are) Mali GPUs will be a blessing, not a curse. 

the ZU3EG also has 2 ARM R-5 "realtime" cores which sound like something fun for interfacing the FPGA, That might make it even better I/O wise but I doubt they have any use in application stuff.

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[Steve Carlisle]

Thanks for the reply!

Steve

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