Time machine question

[Chuck Roast]

When using time machine, can you setup the initial backup to move selected files/folders to the backup device as opposed to just copying them?

Thanks


Sent from my iPhone

[MIKE SHULMAN]

No, Apple’s Time Machine is a backup tool.

If you “move” a file to another drive, that is not a backup, as there is still only one copy.

Time Machine is pretty basic. It will keep local snapshots, hourly backups for the past 24 hours, daily backups for the past month, & weekly backups for all previous months.
The oldest backups will be deleted when the disk fills up. Time Machine’s backups are not “bootable” and do not include the mac’s OS. You can set Time Machine to exclude folders and other drives/volumes on your Mac, that's about it.

My suggestion is to include Time Machine in your backup strategy. Keep it backing up to 1 or 2 external drives. External USB drives are reasonably priced. Costco has 5TB USB drives for under $100 this month.
Plus, create a weekly clone (likely bootable) using amazing software like Carbon Copy Cloner or Super Duper. I prefer Carbon Copy Cloner these days.
Alternating these cloned drives keeping one offsite is a good disaster recovery plan. I keep backup drives in a storage unit. If you have a nearby relative or a workplace to store offsite backups at, those are good choices too.

Apps like Carbon Copy Cloner can be used instead of Apple’s Time Machine, they do the same incremental backups and so much more. You can set Carbon Copy Cloner to preserve other data you have stored on a backup drive you use.

Mike

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[Mario Obejas]

For those of you with more than one machine to backup, where a "single USB attached drive" per "machine to backup" might be a pain, or if you'd like the backup to be automatic, without having to remember to attach a USB drive:

I use a Synology DS220J NAS as my Time machine backup target.
I have a "backup" user defined on the NAS, and use a disk space quota on that user to prevent it from gobbling up every last byte (the NAS does other work besides Time Machine duty). The NAS is a time machine target for two desktops, two laptops, and a Hackintosh, all running various MacOS versions (Sierra, Catalina, Mojave). Yes, I periodically test restores (I have a personal Google calendar entry, triggered every 6 months, to prompt me to do the restore exercise) 

As my backup needs have expanded over the years, it has not been difficult to upgrade the NAS internal drives with larger disks and expand the backup user's quota. 

It also means the backup is more or less automated. The laptops merely need to get network attached anywhere in the network, and Time Machine works as expected. There is no need to remember to manually attach a USB device for backup purposes. 

I've also been able to do a clean install OS upgrade on a device, then restore the accounts et al from Time Machine, as expected. 

On Monday, August 16, 2021, 08:10:42 PM PDT, 'MIKE SHULMAN' via MacHACers <mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

No, Apple’s Time Machine is a backup tool.

If you “move” a file to another drive, that is not a backup, as there is still only one copy.

Time Machine is pretty basic. It will keep local snapshots, hourly backups for the past 24 hours, daily backups for the past month, & weekly backups for all previous months.
The oldest backups will be deleted when the disk fills up. Time Machine’s backups are not “bootable” and do not include the mac’s OS. You can set Time Machine to exclude folders and other drives/volumes on your Mac, that's about it.

My suggestion is to include Time Machine in your backup strategy. Keep it backing up to 1 or 2 external drives. External USB drives are reasonably priced. Costco has 5TB USB drives for under $100 this month.
Plus, create a weekly clone (likely bootable) using amazing software like Carbon Copy Cloner or Super Duper. I prefer Carbon Copy Cloner these days.
Alternating these cloned drives keeping one offsite is a good disaster recovery plan. I keep backup drives in a storage unit. If you have a nearby relative or a workplace to store offsite backups at, those are good choices too.

Apps like Carbon Copy Cloner can be used instead of Apple’s Time Machine, they do the same incremental backups and so much more. You can set Carbon Copy Cloner to preserve other data you have stored on a backup drive you use.

Mike


> On Aug 16, 2021, at 6:30 PM, 'Chuck Roast' via MacHACers <mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
>
> When using time machine, can you setup the initial backup to move selected files/folders to the backup device as opposed to just copying them?
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
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[Bill Boyd]

I have a note that the Synology DS220j NAS is tricky to set up for Time Machine. Did you have any trouble with it?

On Aug 18, 2021, at 7:34 PM, 'Mario Obejas' via MacHACers <mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



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[David Birnbaum]

I was given a Synology recently and I had no problems setting it up for TImemachine. It can be setup for SMB and AFP (Windows and Mac file sharing).

I still use a dedicated Firewire drive for my Mac mini, but I now use the NAS for my MacBook and my various virtual computer environments. 

It is convenient to not have to plug in a drive.   The NAS also serves as a media server for video and music.  Most good NAS are expensive and if I had not received it as a gift I probably would not have bought one.  I am glad I have it though.  A Raid 5 protected backup is great. I was able to restore all my data from my old MacBook to a newer MacBook Pro without connecting disks and no installed operating system.  

David Birnbaum

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machacers/72483113-5679-4E74-8CEC-2376686BF752%40mac.com.

[Bill Boyd]

Thanks.

On Aug 18, 2021, at 10:03 PM, David Birnbaum <db...@pacbell.net> wrote:

I was given a Synology recently and I had no problems setting it up for TImemachine. It can be setup for SMB and AFP (Windows and Mac file sharing).

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machacers/3E2DFAA4-E658-49D9-AFE0-FF771D2E33F8%40pacbell.net.

[Mario Obejas]

On Wednesday, August 18, 2021, 06:25:57 PM PDT, Bill Boyd <whb...@mac.com> wrote:

I have a note that the Synology DS220j NAS is tricky to set up for Time Machine. Did you have any trouble with it?

No trouble. Biggest question will always be what size disks to start with, and what client folders to exclude (eg, Downloads). Nothing exclusive to the Synology.

Setup:
1. Create a backup user (or users) on the NAS with credentials and a disk quota  (easy peasy)
2. On the client systems, tell Time Machine which NAS share is the Time machine and what folders to exclude (easy peasy)

Operation:
3. attempt a restore after 3 days. (easy peasy)

4. attempt a restore after 6 months. (easy peasy - if you put the reminder on your personal calendar)

Caveats/Configuration:
I have *one* plain vanilla, internal wired and wireless NATed network (192.168.1.x)
Desktops are wired Gigabit, laptops are wireless 802.11ac or 802.11n. No Wifi6 - yet.
One Asus RT-AC56U router handles DHCP, it's antenna is disabled (on purpose)
Two TP-Link EAC225 units exclusively handle all the wireless access, with wired back haul. 

I also have a guest network access, where the NAS will not be seen. Some IOT devices (eg, smart sprinklers) are on the guest network 
Any setup more esoteric than that (eg, multiple internal networks, bridges, etc) I can't comment on. 

[Bill Boyd]

Thanks. If your disk(s) are larger than 2TB, what disk format did you use? I've seen a mention of using EXT4.

[Allison Sheridan]

I’m kind of surprised to hear you say you have “no trouble” with this setup.  Time Machine on network attached storage over WiFi is notorious for having trouble.  I tried Time Machine for a while to my Synology from my laptop and eventually gave up.

Heck, Time Machine by itself seems to be fragile in my experience.

 Allison

On Aug 19, 2021, at 2:06 PM, 'Mario Obejas' via MacHACers <mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machacers/1165138877.201046.1629407117022%40mail.yahoo.com.

[Bradford Miller]

While it’s not as pretty (you get copies of your files and prior versions you can manually pick from to restore), I use ChronoAgent and ChronoSync to backup and archive my network of Macs (8 at current count). You can specify what to backup, and how often, at a very granular level, if older copies should be kept, how many, etc. And compared to Retrospect (which I used to use), it’s very inexpensive. You can make bootable backups as well, though I use Carbon Copy Cloner for that.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machacers/3192DB0C-13C3-4936-BA44-E7D21D5A943C%40mac.com.

[Mario Obejas]

Somehow the original message got rejected, and I'm told the list message limit is a paltry 8Mb. Ok, so it's trimmed and has one less screenshot.

Retrying .....

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:32 PM, Mario Obejas

<unix...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I'm not sure how to do a screenshot within Time Machine so this will have to suffice.

My user base needs this to be bullet proof (aka non tech spouse proof). So far it has been. If it's supposed to be notoriously troublesome, I haven't seen that.

Network has wired GigE backhaul.

The TP-Link EAP225 units are excellent APs.

I'm running DSM 6.2 and 7.0 is out. 

Hmmm, I'll wait on that.

Bill:

Two 6TB disks, which format down to 5.4TB.

The quota on the backup user keeps it from causing a full disk condition.

Ext4 file system, on a two disk Raid

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 9:10 PM, 'Allison Sheridan' via MacHACers

<mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I’m kind of surprised to hear you say you have “no trouble” with this setup.  Time Machine on network attached storage over WiFi is notorious for having trouble.  I tried Time Machine for a while to my Synology from my laptop and eventually gave up.

Heck, Time Machine by itself seems to be fragile in my experience.

 Allison

On Aug 19, 2021, at 2:06 PM, 'Mario Obejas' via MacHACers <mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

[snip]

[Dennis Kane]



I checked the documentation in a couple places and it says the Google groups message size limit is 25 MB.

--Dennis, Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 20, 2021, at 9:36 PM, 'Mario Obejas' via MacHACers <mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Somehow the original message got rejected, and I'm told the list message limit is a paltry 8Mb. Ok, so it's trimmed and has one less screenshot.

Retrying .....

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Fri, Aug 20, 2021 at 8:32 PM, Mario Obejas

<unix...@yahoo.com> wrote:

<PXL_20210821_031154287.jpg>

I'm not sure how to do a screenshot within Time Machine so this will have to suffice.

My user base needs this to be bullet proof (aka non tech spouse proof). So far it has been. If it's supposed to be notoriously troublesome, I haven't seen that.

Network has wired GigE backhaul.

The TP-Link EAP225 units are excellent APs.

I'm running DSM 6.2 and 7.0 is out. 

Hmmm, I'll wait on that.

Bill:

Two 6TB disks, which format down to 5.4TB.

The quota on the backup user keeps it from causing a full disk condition.

Ext4 file system, on a two disk Raid

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Thu, Aug 19, 2021 at 9:10 PM, 'Allison Sheridan' via MacHACers

<mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

I’m kind of surprised to hear you say you have “no trouble” with this setup.  Time Machine on network attached storage over WiFi is notorious for having trouble.  I tried Time Machine for a while to my Synology from my laptop and eventually gave up.

Heck, Time Machine by itself seems to be fragile in my experience.

 Allison

On Aug 19, 2021, at 2:06 PM, 'Mario Obejas' via MacHACers <mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

[snip]

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<PXL_20210821_031154287.jpg>

[Allison Sheridan]

So Mario, you’re saying everyone is on wired Gigabit - which is swell, but what about laptops?  The negotiation with WiFi seems to be where people have trouble, and if you have to plug in to get a backup, then it takes away the automatic nature of the solution. 

Even if you don’t have any WiFi devices using this solution, it’s something I’d think the people to whom you’re recommending this might use.

 Allison

On Aug 21, 2021, at 7:02 AM, 'Dennis Kane' via MacHACers <mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machacers/19BDFF18-15C7-4BB9-83EA-FABCFF947716%40yahoo.com.

[Mario Obejas]

 No I'm not saying that at all. I'm merely telling you what my wired network runs since Bill's request was for more information.

For wired devices, it's a wired gigabit network. The laptops are always wireless, both of them are older 2012 MacBook Pros. Time machine runs on them wirelessly, and the whole point of the screenshot was to show you it in action, as it sits on my lap.

The only time the laptops have ever been wired was in the early days of the pandemic, when Zoom was more dodgy than it is now, and a wired connection just seemed like one way to help it out

The laptops use one of two TPLink EAP225 APs for wireless network access. I have one upstairs broadcasting in a high ceiling living room, and another one in a middle wall by the garage too help out in that area of the house.

Both of *those* APs have wired back haul. I think that does make a difference as most people's mesh networks that I see have the APs connecting wirelessly to each other. They broadcast both 2.4 gigahertz and 5 gigahertz and it's anybody's guess what wireless band the laptops or phones will connect to at any time. These APs  have a feature which tries to move devices to 5GHz band when possible and I do have that enabled. I do not do automatic frequency selection; My experience with it is that it doesn't work as well as it should. Every once in a great while, maybe 6 months, i check what my neighbors are broadcasting and I will manually pick a 2.4 gig frequency farthest away from them.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 7:05 AM, 'Allison Sheridan' via MacHACers

<mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/machacers/2FB64060-56FB-463C-8292-E727A0BED711%40mac.com.

[Mario Obejas]

The documentation might say that but the Google groups message I received says otherwise:

Hello Mario Obejas <unix...@yahoo.com>,

The message you are sending is too large.  All messages must be less than 8.00 MBytes.

If you have questions related to this or any other Google Group, visit the Help Center at https://groups.google.com/support/.

Thanks,

Google Groups

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sat, Aug 21, 2021 at 7:01 AM, 'Dennis Kane' via MacHACers

<mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:



I checked the documentation in a couple places and it says the Google groups message size limit is 25 MB.

--Dennis, Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 20, 2021, at 9:36 PM, 'Mario Obejas' via MacHACers <mach...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Somehow the original message got rejected, and I'm told the list message limit is a paltry 8Mb. Ok, so it's trimmed and has one less screenshot.

Retrying .....

[Snip]