Lucee 5 / Other - JDBC Driver (Deprecated)

[Lyle Karstensen]

I am in the process of upgrading and testing Lucee 5 and found that there is a message in the admin under datasources that the Other - JDBC is now deprecated. Can someone explain this to me and also can someone let me know if there is plans on adding MSSQL Mirroring to the datasource admin for Microsoft JDBC Driver.

Currently I have to use Other- JDBC to implement Microsoft SQL Server mirroring. If that option is removed then it will complete render Lucee useless to my company and require me to move on to other product or stop updating with Lucee. I have been a HUGE fan of Railo and now Lucee for years. Forcing me to either stop upgrading Lucee or move on to something else would SUCK horribly.

[mark]

I think you would have to create an extension for the jdbc driver.

as to your other post about query caching and  layer of caching built on mongodb,

not sure if it's kosher to mention another open source cfml alternative here on the Lucee boards

but have you ever looked at OpenBD?

http://openbd.org/manual/?/tag/CFQUERY

http://openbd.org/manual/?/caching

[Lyle Karstensen]

That is what I am saying, I really don't want to move to another application server but Lucee does seem to be forcing my hand to look at OpenBD or back to CF server. The lack of features like Exchange Server integration (which has been in CF for a while now), no cacheid (which is in CF for a while now), no built in MongoDB (again in CF for a while), having to code my own PDF code (because constant errors on PDFs with eSign and encryption), having to create my own Charting code (so the charts don't look like they are from 1995) and now deprecating a feature that seems to be an extremely important feature for enterprise application just is crazy. It seems that deprecating this is a serious issue and to be honest will cause me to go somewhere else. Microsoft SQL Server is a widely used enterprise SQL server (especially now they are on Linux) and to remove a feature that removes enterprise features like mirroring just makes absolutely no sense to me. 

I am also irritated that I got ZERO response from anyone that is part of Lucee to my previous post on this group as to why the cacheid is not supported and now to this one.

Maybe someone on here can chime in and give me some reasons as to why the deprecation and to what is the plans. Maybe help me understand why Lucee is starting to fall behind on CF features and OpenBD.

[Nando Breiter]

I am also irritated that I got ZERO response from anyone that is part of Lucee to my previous post on this group as to why the cacheid is not supported and now to this one.

And now I'm irritated that I bothered to respond to you. Call the Lucee customer service number. 

[Bilal]

Since you are considering commercial alternatives already why not simply pay/hire lucee support?
Most of what you have previously highlighted are easily addressed and clarified via training and support.

Just my 2,
Bilal

[Lyle Karstensen]

Explain how deprecating a feature or the lack of features that have been in CF for a while is handled through support and it may be a consideration. I have already solved my other issues and don't really need support for them. 

[Lyle Karstensen]

Nando please except my apology as this was not directed at you. You were the only person who responded after I added a message to see if the list is alive. While you did respond your response was basically, "well CF's cacheid has bugs". I appreciated that answer and thanked you for your response. But the fact is nobody ever answered my question as to why the feature is missing and if it is ever going to be added. 

[Andrew Dixon]

Hi Lyle,

Lucee is free open source software (FOSS) and as such is community supported and the Google Group is where you can get community support, not professional support. If you want to get professional support you need to get in contact with one of the companies, listed here (on the right), that offer professional support:

http://lucee.org/support.html

If you want to help shape the direction of Lucee then really you need to become a member of the Lucee Association (LAS) and as such you will have direct access to the development team and be able to help guide the direction of Lucee.

With regards to SQL Server support in general, that would be led in the first instance by the needs of members and then supporters of Lucee and lastly the general needs of the general community. This I'm afraid is a simple fact of life in the FOSS world, as well as proprietary software providers, I mean look at some of the rubbish added to ACF in the last 3 or 4 releases, all completely driven by the wants and needs of Adobe's largest clients and certainly not by CFML developers or the community as a whole. The difference is with Lucee is that you can get involved and have a say without spending a fortune. As Bob Head (Infotrax) said during one of the Lucee sessions at dev.Objective this year:

"Just because it is free, doesn't mean you shouldn't pay for it!"

As for the "deprecated" notice, this is something that has come up several times in the past. For Lucee it DOES NOT mean this feature is going to be removed, is under consideration to be removed, etc... The definition of deprecated for Lucee is the same as the meaning used by Java:

A program element annotated @Deprecated is one that programmers are discouraged from using, typically because it is dangerous, or because a better alternative exists. 

Source: http://docs.oracle.com/javase/1.5.0/docs/api/java/lang/Deprecated.html

So, you can still continue to use the feature for as long as you like, it is not going anywhere and might even have the deprecated warning removed from it in future.

With regards to how this is handled through "support" it is essentially sponsoring that feature to be created, e.g. employing a developer, probably Micha or Igal, to create the feature you require. This would normally be handled by Rasia, but others like Ortus have also created such features in the past, e.g. https://www.ortussolutions.com/products/ortuspdf

Finally, if you would be interested in getting more involved in Lucee as a member or supporter please email me directly and I will be happy to steer you to the right people inside LAS to get this arranged.

Hope that all helps.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Nando Breiter]

But the fact is nobody ever answered my question as to why the feature is missing and if it is ever going to be added. 

 

There is no particular "why". If you think you have a compelling case for this "feature", then as I said in my answer to you, file an ER in the issue tracker and present it. Or better, dig into the source code, develop a patch to add it, and submit a pull request. Whining here in a manipulative tone, as if you'd prefer someone else file the ER on your behalf, is irritating. 

While the Lucee devs do aim toward ACF compatibility, they don't simply reimplement every decision the ACF team takes. They take a more considered approach toward language design instead of simply throwing anything and everything that some Adobe executive thinks will help drive sales. That's a good thing. 

And the Lucee devs are developers, just like you, who need to make a living. The only source of funding to develop Lucee comes from folks like you and me. Take a look at this list - http://lucee.org/supporters.html. Do a little math. I'm not privy to the the financials, but apparently Lucee is mostly funded out of their own pockets. 

And that fancy charting engine you are missing, do you think that's open source? Or do you want Micha to pay the licensing fees for it, and include it in Lucee, so that you can use it for free? Or maybe you'd prefer we take up a collection here on this list to pay those license fees for you, develop the extension for you, and give it to to use with our apologies for not having it ready for you over the weekend. 

Now, I haven't dug into extensions at all, but I assume that if you want to develop an extension, for your charting for instance, that is what they are for. Lucee provides this possibility to you. Otherwise, if you want it for free, you have to make due with the libraries that are available as open source, for free.

I am also irritated that I got ZERO response from anyone that is part of Lucee to my previous post on this group as to why the cacheid is not supported and now to this one.

You are part of Lucee - it's open source. Why haven't you implemented this feature yet, or sponsored it's development if you don't know how or haven't got the time? This is not a rhetorical question. A well-considered, honest answer would be appreciated.

[Andrew Dixon]

FYI, in Lucee 5 Charts are now an extension anyway, so if you want to update them feel free, pull requests most welcome :-)

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Bilal]

It is rather simple really and I am surprised that the idea has to be outlined but I will try:

You pay support you get attention.
If what you are reporting is a bug, it has a high chance of getting fixed since you support the project with actual funds.
This is how it works in all companies. The amount of support dollars and service engagements drives work.

I find this to be more effective and constructive manner to engage with open source project whose volunteers are trying to help as best as they can.

My 2:
B.

[Joseph Gooch]

For that matter, it's a relatively simple undertaking to update the MSSQL.cfc to add the connection parameters you're looking for.

You can modify the one in your server in lucee-server/context/context/admin/MSSQL.cfc

selectMethod and sendStringParametersAsUnicode are even there as helpful examples.

Ideally you'd go one step further and issue a pull request against JDBC-extension-factory.

https://github.com/lucee/JDBC-extension-factory/blob/master/build/mssqljdbc-4.0.2206.100/MSSQL.cfc

Or provide more information about other parameters you're looking for... I can pretty much guarantee without specifics or a feature request in JIRA, those parameters won't ever show up.  But plenty of people on this list would help facilitate implementing the request and/or filling out the JIRA requests.  (Myself included)

Joe

[Michael Offner]

Lyle

We have spend a lot of time to get "Other - JDBC" working with Lucee 5, that was not that easy because Lucee 5 works very different when it comes to JDBC, simply because Lucee 5 is OSGi based. So we will for sure not remove that feature, like Andrew has written, we simply embrace people not to use it in favor of a better solution. Maybe we should point that out more clear in the description of the driver.

So what is the better solution?

Send me an example of how you use the "other" driver, based on this we can extend our existing MSSQL driver or add a new one.

Everybody is welcome to do so, suggestions to improve our drivers are very welcome.

This is the project for all our JDBC Driver extensions:

https://github.com/lucee/JDBC-extension-factory

It is not that complicated to extend existing onces or add new onces

On Sat, Jul 9, 2016 at 8:06 PM, Lyle Karstensen <lylekar...@gmail.com> wrote:

I am in the process of upgrading and testing Lucee 5 and found that there is a message in the admin under datasources that the Other - JDBC is now deprecated. Can someone explain this to me and also can someone let me know if there is plans on adding MSSQL Mirroring to the datasource admin for Microsoft JDBC Driver.

Currently I have to use Other- JDBC to implement Microsoft SQL Server mirroring. If that option is removed then it will complete render Lucee useless to my company and require me to move on to other product or stop updating with Lucee. I have been a HUGE fan of Railo and now Lucee for years. Forcing me to either stop upgrading Lucee or move on to something else would SUCK horribly.

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[ADK]

Hi Micha - I have been trying to create an extension for a jdbc dbf driver. I can just drop the jar in the /lucee/WEB-INF/lib folder next to lucee.jar and use "Other - JDBC" just fine, so this isn't critical.

however, when I create the extension - my DBFDriver.cfc deploys properly (i.e. is available in the Datasource type drop-down), but I get a deploy error in both Tomcat and Lucee saying that the jar cannot be found in the Tomcat8/temp directory? The jar is in the proper "jars" directory in my lex container but doesn't seem to get copied over.

"ERROR","Thread-109","07/15/2016","18:37:21","","Extension;C:\dev\Tomcat8\temp\DBF.jar (The system cannot find the file specified);lucee.runtime.exp.NativeException: C:\dev\Tomcat8\temp\DBF.jar (The system cannot find the file specified)

Windows 10 64-bit
Tomcat 8.0.36
Lucee 5.0.1.28-SNAPSHOT

[Michael Offner]

Can you send/link me what you did?

Micha

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[Lyle Karstensen]

Micha,

Thank you VERY much for the response. I would be MORE THEN HAPPY to sponsor the development of adding the mirror server to the current MSSQL screens which to be honest is the better way to go. Please let me know the property channels to begin that process.

On Friday, July 15, 2016 at 1:51:51 PM UTC-7, Micha wrote:

[Andrew Dixon]

Hi Lyle,

Please email in...@lucee.org and we will sort you out from there.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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