Lucee SEO is really bad

[Gunnar Lieb]

Hello,

the Luccee site must have somewhere CFML and Coldfusion Markup Language on the front page, otherwise it will stay an engine for insiders.
Can somebody add some nice sentences?

Gunnar

[Adam Cameron]

Lucee's position is that the terms "ColdFusion" and "CFML" are poison in the web dev community: Lucee is actively avoiding them. Whether or not this has merit is debatable.

That said, as well as avoiding the CFML association, they also then need to aggressively chase an alternative position, which they are currently not doing as far as I can tell. So they probably are in a worse marketing position than if they hung the term "CFML" on every paragraph.

As with a lot of things relating to Railo/Lucee, this marketing plan seems to be somewhat half-thought-through, and less than half implemented. They are their own worst enemies at time.

Still: I s'pose they're only a few weeks out of the gate so far, so maybe it takes a while to get things moving?

Also this is supposed to be a community exercise... I'm trying to mention them as much as I can on my blog & on Twitter, but the blog is a bit fallow at the moment, so there's only so much I can do. What have other people done to promote it in their own spheres of influence?

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Adam

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[Andrew Penhorwood]

I think avoiding being just a CFML engine is very important.  I would go with {LuceeScript} that also runs ColdFusion code.  {LuceeScript} could be whatever the community comes up with as a name.  In the larger web developer community ColdFusion is viewed in a negative light.  Wrongly I believe but fixing that perceptions is a non-starter.

Andrew Penhorwood

[Michael Offner]

We already working on a overhaul of the current website, we show more about the product on the website and we also improve the wording. Any suggestion of course is welcome...

Micha

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[Gunnar Lieb]

I get the point where the future of Lucee might be, but currently 99% of the users are Railo users and I believe the largest short term growth will come from former ACF and Railo users..

If you are looking on Google for open source Coldfusion engine Lucee should be on the first page and this is much harder if CFML is not mentioned at all

[ADK]

Personally I think the website is rather confusing. As someone who's already been to the wiki, and the issue tracker, and read the whole of this mailing list... just last night I found myself coming to this mailing list to find a quick link to the wiki because the site structure was frustrating me and I could not quickly locate i there.

It turns out it's listed under the "Get Support" link - as opposed to the "Supporters" link and not to be confused with the "Support" link (with wrench icon next to it) nor the "Learn More" link. I could only imagine what someone new to the site would think? If the wiki is to be the central repository for info re: this product, then it's location ought to be front and center on the home page.

The home page should make it VERY simple to understand:

what is Lucee? (pithy)
how do I download/get up and running with it?
where can I learn specifics about it (the language, not the org)?

That should all be above the fold, in your face, sort of stuff. All the stuff about success stories, who's involved, how to give money, etc. ought to be side bar, anecdotal, not front and center. I'm not diminishing their importance, but if understanding who's using the product and how I can donate are the first things a person sees when going to the site, rather than WHAT the product is, they're likely to not spend the time to go searching...

On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 10:55:36 AM UTC-8, Micha wrote:

We already working on a overhaul of the current website, we show more about the product on the website and we also improve the wording. Any suggestion of course is welcome...

Micha

Am Dienstag, 17. Februar 2015 schrieb Andrew Penhorwood :

I think avoiding being just a CFML engine is very important.  I would go with {LuceeScript} that also runs ColdFusion code.  {LuceeScript} could be whatever the community comes up with as a name.  In the larger web developer community ColdFusion is viewed in a negative light.  Wrongly I believe but fixing that perceptions is a non-starter.

Andrew Penhorwood

On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 12:58:29 PM UTC-5, Adam Cameron wrote:

Lucee's position is that the terms "ColdFusion" and "CFML" are poison in the web dev community: Lucee is actively avoiding them. Whether or not this has merit is debatable.

That said, as well as avoiding the CFML association, they also then need to aggressively chase an alternative position, which they are currently not doing as far as I can tell. So they probably are in a worse marketing position than if they hung the term "CFML" on every paragraph.

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[Adam Cameron]

On 18 February 2015 at 08:41, Gunnar Lieb <g...@akitogo.com> wrote:

I get the point where the future of Lucee might be, but currently 99% of the users are Railo users and I believe the largest short term growth will come from former ACF and Railo users..

I ike to think they have a slightly bigger game plan that short-term snaffling of a random CF or Railo user, which was never a sustainable business plan in the first place (ie: with Railo) really.

Let's see what they come up with regarding their " light-weight dynamic scripting language for the JVM" positioning before we worry to much about SEOing for CFML searches.

-- 

Adam

[Adam Cameron]

On 18 February 2015 at 08:43, ADK <and...@leftbower.com> wrote:

The home page should make it VERY simple to understand:

what is Lucee? (pithy)
how do I download/get up and running with it?
where can I learn specifics about it (the language, not the org)?

Agreed, and this has been observed already.

I believe "they" are in the process of getting a decent tech- / language-centric site sorted out. The Lucee Association stuff needs to take a back seat to the language itself.

I think it's OK that the initial site was quite rushed and a bit less than ideal. They had to get something ready for go-live, and it handled that adequately well.

Is there scope for people to volunteer to help with the website (that's directed @ Alex etc). Not just the typo-checking like I have been doing, but actually helping with the approach, structure, copy, etc?

-- 

Adam

[Andrew Dixon]

Hi Andrew,

As Micha said the website is already being re-worked and the association had a discussion about this late last week and has decided on a way forward with it which pretty much follows the sort of things you have mentioned.

Kind regards,

Andrew

http://about.me/andrew_dixon

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[ADK]

great to hear - thx Andrew

[Nando Breiter]

Speaking strictly in terms of SEO, inbound links with terms like "open source CFML" "open source ColdFusion" "Lucee open source CFML" would likely be effective, no matter what text was contained on the pages. Most of us have blogs and websites, so getting at least those links into the lucee.org website would be easy. Let's do it. There isn't any real competition for keyword phrases that would describe Lucee in this way, so I don't think it will be hard to push it to the first page.

I still think it is better to be upfront and clear about Lucee's CFML roots, because as soon as someone digs into the language just a tiny bit, they will discover this for themselves, and wonder why it isn't stated out front to begin with. 

Marketing is most difficult when you try to do it for yourself, or for your own organization if it is not your specific role and specialization. I find this again and again with the companies and individuals I work with. So I think it's normal for the Lucee team to be struggling with this a bit - plus the fact that it is all new.

Aria Media Sagl
Via Rompada 40
6987 Caslano
Switzerland

+41 (0)91 600 9601
+41 (0)76 303 4477 cell
skype: ariamedia

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[Tom Miller]

I quite like the Kotlin homepage - nice big clear code examples on the front page give you a taste of what it's like, plus a video.

http://kotlinlang.org/

On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 6:55:36 PM UTC, Micha wrote:

We already working on a overhaul of the current website, we show more about the product on the website and we also improve the wording. Any suggestion of course is welcome...

Micha

Am Dienstag, 17. Februar 2015 schrieb Andrew Penhorwood :

I think avoiding being just a CFML engine is very important.  I would go with {LuceeScript} that also runs ColdFusion code.  {LuceeScript} could be whatever the community comes up with as a name.  In the larger web developer community ColdFusion is viewed in a negative light.  Wrongly I believe but fixing that perceptions is a non-starter.

Andrew Penhorwood

On Tuesday, February 17, 2015 at 12:58:29 PM UTC-5, Adam Cameron wrote:

Lucee's position is that the terms "ColdFusion" and "CFML" are poison in the web dev community: Lucee is actively avoiding them. Whether or not this has merit is debatable.

That said, as well as avoiding the CFML association, they also then need to aggressively chase an alternative position, which they are currently not doing as far as I can tell. So they probably are in a worse marketing position than if they hung the term "CFML" on every paragraph.

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[ADK]

Tom - exactly this.