Lucee IDE / Editor Plugin Survey

[Andrew Dixon]

Hi All,

As per Konstantinos suggestion, here is a survey about which IDE/Editor we should consider creating a plugin for.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/15-wNd25urOTxH0OsM74XDNpFKhSVk9wqEKCanUkdScw/viewform?usp=send_form

I will run the survey for a week and then share the results with everyone.

So please go answer, only 4 quick questions. 

Thanks.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

[Nando Breiter]

I chose Atom, because I thought that perhaps because Google is behind it, it might have the best chance of being maintained and enhanced into the future. That said, I'm certainly not an expert on the pros and cons of various IDEs. It might be valuable if others also share the reasoning behind their choice.

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[Jean Moniatte]

Here we go for me:

• I chose Atom too because it is free, open source and supported by a large company (Github).
  
• Brackets might be a good choice too in terms of exposing ACF devs to Lucee since Adobe is behind it. Depends on how many ACF devs use it though.
  
• Sublime is great, but depends on a single developer.
  
• IntelliJ IDEA and Eclipse are just too bloated in my opinion.
  

Thanks,

Jean

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[Adam Cameron]

On Friday, 5 June 2015 10:12:33 UTC+1, jmoniatte wrote:

Here we go for me:

• I chose Atom too because it is free, open source and supported by a large company (Github).
  
• Brackets might be a good choice too in terms of exposing ACF devs to Lucee since Adobe is behind it. Depends on how many ACF devs use it though.
  
• Sublime is great, but depends on a single developer.
  
• IntelliJ IDEA and Eclipse are just too bloated in my opinion.
  

Should the decision be based on what's - in theory - "better", or should it be based on what most CFML devs actually use? For the purposes of the language plug-in, "what people actually use" trumps "what they perhaps ought to be using".

I saw Kai comment somewhere that if Lucee is chasing JVM devs from other platforms - Scala, Groovy, etc - then IntelliJ is what they use, so that's what Lucee should pursue. I think his comment about Scala / Groovy users might be correct... but I think it might be a bit pre-emptive. I think Lucee should focus on the audience it currently has, not on the audience it might possibly hope to get (but there's absolutely no evidence as yet that they ever will). Deal with that when it's time to.

That said, I'm not disagreeing with anyone's preferences, I'm more questioning the weighting people might be putting on some considerations.

FWIW, I use Sublime Text for CFML and IntelliJ (via PHPStorm) for PHP. I prefer ST, as I think IntelliJ have made some odd UX choices in places. But there's not much in it either way. Hey, I even still like Eclipse too! I have ST and IntelliJ both open, all day every day.

-- 

Adam

 

[un...@cf-center.de]

Hi,

I believe if we have the chance to go new ways and maybe want other developers to use and maybe contribute to lucee we should look, what Java Developers like to use. And in the Moment there seems to be IntelliJ idea the way to go. There are several reasons to do that:

1. Its more lightweight than Eclipse but more powerful.

2. It has a paid and a free version (so everyone could use it)

3. Its extremely powerful and integrates will all major VCS and supports tons of third party Webapps one could use for Project Management and issue tracking, and not just the commercial ones also Opensource Projects (e.g. Redmine, Gitlab...) 

4. It startups fast and scales extremely good for large codebases.

Thats my 2 Cents. If we have the chance to get a new plugin, why on earth not to choose a project thats like lucee is available in OpenSource, has a free and a paid version (maybe even like the plugin itself) and is able to handle big projects without performance issues? 

Greetings,

Ulf

[Konstantinos Liakos]

If I could just pick one, IntelliJ is my choise too.

If I had to compromise with one of the others, I really can't pick one. I have used all of them for a couple of hours, nothing more. So I think my choise would be based on which of these has the best chance of being maintained continuously in the future.

[Mark Drew]

I know everyone is saying IntelliJ but I would go for WebStorm rather than the full IntelliJ IDEA. 

I use it for a bunch of web related stuff and then it would also work in IDEA (I think, I don’t know when eco system of all intelliJ’s stuff) 

Regards

Mark Drew


develop • deploy • deliver
http://charliemikedelta.com

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[Nando Breiter]

@Mark, so you assume, or know, that a Lucee plugin developed for IDEA would also work in WebStorm?

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[Mark Drew]

I am making an assumption… I guess it doesn’t work now because of the commercial parts. "I know nothing” as Manuel* said. 

Regards

Mark Drew


develop • deploy • deliver
http://charliemikedelta.com

*Manuel from Fawlty Towers 

On 5 Jun 2015, at 11:42, Nando Breiter <na...@aria-media.com> wrote:

@Mark, so you assume, or know, that a Lucee plugin developed for IDEA would also work in WebStorm?

Aria Media Sagl
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On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Mark Drew <mark...@gmail.com> wrote:

I know everyone is saying IntelliJ but I would go for WebStorm rather than the full IntelliJ IDEA. 

I use it for a bunch of web related stuff and then it would also work in IDEA (I think, I don’t know when eco system of all intelliJ’s stuff) 

Regards

Mark Drew

<cmd.png>

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[Mark Drew]

In WebStorm you are supposedly able to import JetBrain’s plugins:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ksbfhay75cu3jab/Screenshot%202015-06-05%2011.54.30.png?dl=0

But I think the CFMLSupportPlugin is part of IntelliJ  at the moment as it says 

NOTE: COLDFUSION PLUGIN IS NO LONGER HOSTED HERE! 

Instead, it is included in IntelliJ IDEA distribution. Please download IntelliJ IDEA from the download page. 

Mark Drew


develop • deploy • deliver
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On 5 Jun 2015, at 11:42, Nando Breiter <na...@aria-media.com> wrote:

@Mark, so you assume, or know, that a Lucee plugin developed for IDEA would also work in WebStorm?

Aria Media Sagl
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On Fri, Jun 5, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Mark Drew <mark...@gmail.com> wrote:

I know everyone is saying IntelliJ but I would go for WebStorm rather than the full IntelliJ IDEA. 

I use it for a bunch of web related stuff and then it would also work in IDEA (I think, I don’t know when eco system of all intelliJ’s stuff) 

Regards

Mark Drew

<cmd.png>

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[Nando Breiter]

http://plugins.jetbrains.com/webStorm

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[Nando Breiter]

Mark, take a look at this plugin:

TextMate bundles support

http://plugins.jetbrains.com/plugin/7221?pr=webStorm

Then perhaps one could use the CFML TextMate bundle with WebStorm, today.

Aria Media Sagl
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[Mark Drew]

Cheers! I shall do and see if that does the trick. at the moment I am just trying to get my Redis Extension to get signed working with Lucee :/ and OSGi. Once I get that done, I can get back onto looking at fun stuff. 

Mark Drew


develop • deploy • deliver
http://charliemikedelta.com

[Andrew Dixon]

Hi Mark and Nando,

I've just tried the TextMate bundle in WebStorm and it does sort of work. It colorises the code ok, but it changes the background from the default grey to white, which is like using an editor from 10 years ago and is hurting my eyes already!!! Any ideas what this might be?

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Mark Drew]

It’s not old, it’s retro! 

MD

[Andrew Dixon]

Found the answer, in the "TextMate" preference screen there is an IDE Color Scheme -> TextMate Color Scheme mapping and by default all the IDE color scheme's are mapped to "Mac Classic". Changed this to Monokai and all good.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

[thorste...@googlemail.com]

I use eclipse with white background and egit and cfeclipse. Can' t complain. It's Wirkung stabile for over 3 years. Maybe it's time for another IDE. What do they offer over eclipse?

[dskraus]

Atom is actually from GitHub. It's pretty neat. It runs Chromium so the editor is HTML/CSS/JS and Node. They call the desktop wrapper Electron which Microsoft's new editor, Code, is based around. Code is getting plugin support soon. I wonder how much cross-over they'll be able to share.

That said, I voted Sublime. I use it personally but I believe it has a larger user base than the others when it comes to a text editor (Brackets, Atom, etc) rather than a full IDE like Eclipse.

[Bilal]

I will use any IDE that has support for AWS SDK Toolkit. This frees me from writing many scripts and workarounds.

Today that is mainly Eclipse and Visual Studio. 

-Bilal

[Igal @ Lucee.org]

I use IntelliJ IDEA for Java, and Sublime Text for CFML.  I just checked out Atom (https://atom.io/) and it looks very promising (supports multiple cursors, etc), so I might switch from Sublime Text to that, since Sublime Text issues an update about once a year if at all.

I find IntelliJ and the like too heavy for my CFML code, so I prefer the lighter weight editors for that.  if, however, IntelliJ would support a CFML Debugger (supporting breakpoints etc) -- which they planned to do in the past but looks like they dropped that plan -- I would be very willing to pay for it.

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer
Lucee.org

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[Jonas Hauß]

Sublime Text 3 is under development since a few months. They improved the syntax highlighting engine and other stuff as well. (Looking forward to the new Lucee highlighting I'm working on)

They release at least one update per week.

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[Andrew Dixon]

Jonas, the last release for Sublime Text 3 was back in March and that was the first update since August the year before, not sure where you have got once per week from???

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Jonas Hauß]

Sorry, I ment ST3. Current stable release is 3083 and dev is 3092.

The forum is very active atm.

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[Chip Pinkston]

I'm game to switch over to IntelliJ from CFEclipse if there's an Lucee targeted plugin.  I've heard almost nothing but good things about the speed of IntelliJ, so I'm happy to learn.

The one thing that really keeps me on CFEclipse more than anything else is Mylyn.  Thought I see there is an Atlassian connectior for IntelliJ. 


Chip.

[Dan Skaggs]

Chip...

IntelliJ has something similar to Mylyn in it's "Change List" feature, but it's not as full-featured as Mylyn in my experience. I have it wired into our Jira system and there are a few holes in the integration (like no option to start work on a ticket and have a branch made for it...you have to do that manually).  It also doesn't seem to keep a log of all the files that were changed as part of the change list after they are committed to VCS.  So, it's a little more barebones than Mylyn is if you're used to how Mylyn works.

That said, I still prefer IntelliJ over anything Ecipse-based 1000x.

Dan

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[Igal @ Lucee.org]

I still prefer IntelliJ over anything Ecipse-based 1000x.

+1

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer
Lucee.org

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[Steven Durette]

You must not be on the latest build. I'm getting one to two updates if sublime text 3 each week now. He started strong after the beginning of 2015. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Igal @ Lucee.org]

I'm still using Sublime Text 2 since that was the version for which I purchased a license.

but after playing a bit with Atom today I think that I might make the switch soon...

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer
Lucee.org

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[Andrew Dixon]

Oh ok, there is a dev build channel for it...

http://www.sublimetext.com/3dev

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Igal @ Lucee.org]

oh yea, that seems to be very active this year.  I never got beyond the blog on the site though so I was unaware of that channel...

anyway, Atom still looks very attractive, especially since keys are mapped similarly to ST, so CTRL+D and CTRL+SHIFT+D works the same as ST.

Igal Sapir
Lucee Core Developer
Lucee.org

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[Steven Durette]

Igal, 

Depending on when you bought your version 2 license you might get version 3 for free. I did. 

Sent from my iPhone

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[Andrew Dixon]

So, been doing a bit of a test today using WebStorm and Atom just too see what they are like:

WebStorm has some great plugins available, like a DB one, Atlassian one, as well as some great stuff baked in, like VCS support, Gulp support, etc... however I find the whole user interface just odd. I have to agree with Adam that "they made some odd UX choices in places", also the TextMate bundle support doesn't seem to be very complete. Whilst it colorised the CFML tag source ok, it doesn't handle script or SQL at all and there was no auto complete for cf tags and functions either.

Last time I looked at Atom it had only just been released and was clunky, slow and had pretty much no plugins available. It has come a long way since then and I would say is almost on a par with ST3 now as an editor. The CFML plugin is good, colorised all the code I looked at fine, with one minor issue involving a single quote in some text, but handled tags, script and SQL ok. There is also auto complete for CFML as well and it appears to have go some sort of code complete as well for variables, etc... in the code, which was nice. Also looking at the code behind the CFML plugin (https://github.com/atuttle/atom-language-cfml), I don't think it will take much to make a Lucee dialect plugin using this as a base, so I think I might even give it a try (don't hold your breath however!!!)

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Konstantinos Liakos]

I also tried Atom today and I am really excited with the CFML plugin. Autocomplete is also very nice, can do better though. And as you pointed Andew, the plugin code is ridiculously simple.

[spills]

I personally use ST3 and like it ok. I really think the lucee org needs to spend some of the development money getting a good plugin WITH step debugging either on Webstorm or Intellij. My personal experience with Fusion Debug and CF Builder debugging has never been all that great as any kinda of sizable application and framework always seemed to slow down the process too much and the cf logger project and enhanced trace turned out to be faster.  Not having a professional IDE and not an enhanced text editor plugin in my opinion reflects poorly even, if that is not the reality, perception wins!

Thanks 

 

[Andrew Dixon]

Ok, I said don't hold your breath but actually it was easier than I expected, so here you go...

https://github.com/lucee/atom-language-lucee

Lucee dialect syntax highlighter and snippets for Atom. The snippets work the same way as the CFML ones do but with the cf prefix, so if you are in a .lc or .lucee file and type:

output

and then press tab or enter it will insert:

<:output>

  

</:output>

and so on, etc, etc...

I'm just going to see about adding this to the atom.io site so it appears in the Atom package installer in the Atom preferences screen.

With regards to the syntax of the snippets, I'm pretty sure they are not all correct as I think some tags and functions are not in the Lucee dialect and a few have slightly difference syntax, but I need Micha to confirm, will update the package once I have the info.

I will also look at updating the package to include the Lucee CFML dialect in full later down the road, so it is all in one package and it will then be distinct from the existing ColdFusion package, as we know Lucee's CFML dialect can vary in places from the ACF dialect.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Andrew Dixon]

And it is now on atom.io:

https://atom.io/packages/language-lucee

so you can install it directly from inside Atom.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

[AJ Mercer]

I am unable to find this package - just Adam's still

searching by

• lucee
  
• cfml
  
• lc
  
• coldfusion
  

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[AJ Mercer]

found it

[Konstantinos Liakos]

Awesome Andrew!

So will this package be only for Lucee dialect? Should I keep the cfml package if I want to write normal cfm,cfc files?

[Andrew Dixon]

Yes, it is just Lucee for now, so keep the cfml package for now. Like I say, I will look at adding CFML as well soon so it is a complete Lucee package.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Mark Drew]

I would say keep them separate. You can always install both later. 

Mark Drew

- Sent by typing with my thumbs. 

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[Konstantinos Liakos]

I will agree with this. Keep the Lucee package clean.

We'll see how it goes and decide later if cfml support is required inside the Lucee package.

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Konstantinos Liakos

[Mark Drew]

The problem with building stuff like this is that (in cfeclipse for example) you had to write lots of ifs 

Creating a package for tag based CFCs is kinda different from script based ones. I also presume that .lc files would be bound to the Lucee package and .cfc ones to the cfml

Mark Drew

- Sent by typing with my thumbs. 

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[Konstantinos Liakos]

I have started to play around with the Atom CFML package to see how easy it is to apply updates and release the updated package online.

[Adam Chapman]

I'm a big fan of Atom.. The current cfml plugin's autocomplete and syntax highlighting is a little dicey but with well refined cfml & lucee plugins, it would be hard to beat.

[Andrew Dixon]

The current CFML and therefore the Lucee one don't really have "autocomplete", they have snippets, which seem similar but is not really the same thing. I'm going to do some digging and see.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

On 7 June 2015 at 13:10, Adam Chapman <adam.p....@gmail.com> wrote:

I'm a big fan of Atom.. The current cfml plugin's autocomplete and syntax highlighting is a little dicey but with well refined cfml & lucee plugins, it would be hard to beat.

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[Andrew Dixon]

The reason I was thinking of adding the CFML support to the Lucee plugin was to support Lucee's flavour of CFML instead of the current one which is ACF specific. Still think it might be worthwhile.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Konstantinos Liakos]

Yep, an additional package that will act as a provider to the autocomplete+ package need to be built. Take for example https://atom.io/packages/autocomplete-php.

[Andrew Dixon]

Yep, already working on it :-)

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[rrho...@gmail.com]

+100 for IntelliJ! 

I cfscript 99% of the time, only using cfml when I twiddling markup.  Cfscripting in IntelliJ is a beautiful thing.  Yes, there are few quirks here and there, but it is highly usable -- and I code with it many hours every day.  Live Templates are the bomb!

I like IntelliJ so much that I would be willing to donate some serious dollars to improve and refine IntelliJ's cfscript/cfml plugin.

On Thursday, June 4, 2015 at 4:38:14 PM UTC-4, Andrew Dixon wrote:

Hi All,

As per Konstantinos suggestion, here is a survey about which IDE/Editor we should consider creating a plugin for.

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/15-wNd25urOTxH0OsM74XDNpFKhSVk9wqEKCanUkdScw/viewform?usp=send_form

I will run the survey for a week and then share the results with everyone.

So please go answer, only 4 quick questions. 

Thanks.

[Andrew Dixon]

Hi All,

The results of the editor survey are in, here is the overview of the results:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/15-wNd25urOTxH0OsM74XDNpFKhSVk9wqEKCanUkdScw/viewanalytics

Looks like Sublime is the clear favourite but I would highly recommend anyone using Sublime to take a look at Atom (https://atom.io/). To me Atom is as good as Sublime now and getting better everyday. It's development is highly active and unlike Sublime it is open source and free, just like Lucee.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Robert Munn]

+1 for Atom because it is FOSS, quite active, and looking better everyday.

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[Mark Drew]

Working on a project currently, I shall start using Atom on it to see how it goes. It was very easy to add vagrant , Apache, Lucee, and cfml plugins.

Mark Drew

- Sent by typing with my thumbs. 

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[Konstantinos Liakos]

I also think that those who use Sublime can jump to Atom very easily. They just have to try it for a week. Gice the fact that it is FOSS and backed by Github, it has way much more potential.

On the other hand, 143 responses? We are way too few active Lucee devs...

[Harry Klein]

This woke my interest in Atom, so I downloaded and played a little bit with it. Unfortunately my experience was not very good, I had 2 freezes (after searching the complete project and after opening a big file) and one crash.

In my opinion Sublime is better in almost all aspects, and a lot faster too.

-Harry

[Mark Drew]

you should wait a bit more and use more than just starting and it crashing as a metric. Just saying. 

Regards

Mark Drew


develop • deploy • deliver
http://charliemikedelta.com

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[Kai Koenig]

My experience with both Atom and Brackets in the past was very similar. Works fine for small projects and small(er) files, but as soon as I’d throw a project with hundreds of folders, some of them having thousands of files at them, they regularly become unusable for me.

Sublime and IntelliJ work much better for me when it comes to that.

Cheers

Kai

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[Andrew Dixon]

Can't say I've had this problem with the latest releases of Atom... it was pretty terrible the first time I tried it, maybe a year ago, but these latest releases have been just fine, even with the large projects I have tried with it. I've only been using it exclusively for just over a week now but I've had zero problems and it is no slower for me than Sublime Text 3.

@Harry, which OS are you using it on?

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Dan Skaggs]

I realize everyone is different, but I just can't get past how stripped down both Sublime and Atom are. I tried to use Atom this week for a bit. Yeah it was nice and fast on my projects but the Git workflow, for example, was terrible even after installing the most popular Git plugin. How anyone can think it's a good idea to bring up a text editor, move the cursor to certain lines in the editor and type a character to initiate a Git command is the optimum way to interact with a Git repo is beyond me. Learning all the Git commands to use in a terminal session is far more preferable IMO (something I regularly do as well as using Git from within IntelliJ). It's a case of someone trying to shoe-horn non-text-editor functions into a text editor.

I've had a few aggravations with IntelliJ recently, but with the amount of systems and concepts that I deal with on a daily basis that are all rolled into one interface inside IntelliJ...including Jira, Git (BitBucket), Bamboo, Jenkins, Dash, etc...there's no way that Sublime, Atom or Brackets can come close to the level of unified interface that IntelliJ does.

Now, before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, I said before "I realize everyone is different" and this is just my opinion. Just please everyone remember that each of our own ways of being productive may or may not work for other people and that we shouldn't pigeon-hole these discussions to one editor just because it's popular right now.

Dan

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[Steven Durette]

Dan,

There are other GIT plugins for SublimeText.  Some of them let you access the command line from directly within the editor.  Last time I looked (a few minutes ago in packagecontrol.io) there are 71 different Git plugins for Sublime Text.  Those are only the ones available with Package Control.  There are probably others on GitHub.

Steve

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[ADK]

I have had the same experiences in the past and this thread caused me to try it again fresh. Unfortunately I see little improvement in those areas - specifically the slow start up times, inability to open large files and and a tendencies to slow down choke a bit on large projects/files in general. The Atom forums show that we're certainly not alone in these complaints.

I'm on Windows, but have pretty-to-very beefy dev machines but similar issues on both workstations and the laptop. Eclipse, ST2 and Notepad++ - the former more feature rich and the latter two light years faster and more capable and stable.

I was really hoping to be pleasantly surprised when trying Atom again as I feel I still haven't found my Goldilocks editor yet... perhaps it doesn't exist!

[Tony Junkes]

I've been using ST3 as my main editor for a while now and love it. I've been trying out Atom for Windows lately and def want to give it a chance but I've been having similar issues as some of the others. Upon install it was really sluggish and crashed a few times afterwards when I was trying to test out the environment. Lately I haven't had any crashes but it def hangs from time to time on files where sublime just moves right along.

Just an observation. Still playing with it.

[Andrew Dixon]

Maybe it's an issue specific to the Windows version then as I honestly have had none of these issue with the Mac version.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

On 15 June 2015 at 00:25, Tony Junkes <tonyj...@gmail.com> wrote:

I've been using ST3 as my main editor for a while now and love it. I've been trying out Atom for Windows lately and def want to give it a chance but I've been having similar issues as some of the others. Upon install it was really sluggish and crashed a few times afterwards when I was trying to test out the environment. Lately I haven't had any crashes but it def hangs from time to time on files where sublime just moves right along.

Just an observation. Still playing with it.

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[Kai Koenig]

I’m on a Mac :-/

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[Harry Klein]

Hi Andrew,

 

I tested on Windows 7

 

-Harry

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