Oracle/Java Greed, Lucee's Future?

[Thomas Loyd]

All, I just came across this link:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/12/16/oracle_targets_java_users_non_compliance/

And wanted to know if anybody has looked into changing Lucee's base or looking into something to rid Lucee of its Java underpinnings maybe?

Just curious what you all think since it has left a bad taste in my mouth. 

I really don't like Oracle (One Raging Asshole Called Larry Ellison, as someone called it) nor its databases.

Thanks,

Tom

[Mark Drew]

Realistically this doesn't affect lucee users does it?  As for the systems that they are charging for lucee will not be used (Lucee powered DVD player anyone?)

Not sure how you could re-write it with anything else? Back to c++ maybe?

Or move to Node?

Mark Drew

- Sent by typing with my thumbs. 

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[Thomas Loyd]

Mark,

I'm making the assumption for now that it won't affect us yet. However, Oracle's corporate greed knows no bounds. I'm just curious as to what are the future potentials for Lucee if the Java ecosystem becomes unfriendly/untenable due to Oracle's need to charge/monetize (monetise for all the Brits out there). I love having CFML in a user-friendly and open-source format. I just feel that it may be time to start "alternativizing" in case this happens.

Node looks to be a potential maybe, or python?

Tom

[Mark Drew]

It is open source as is so I am sure there can be forks and the source is “out there” so despite asking for licensing for the special embedded systems I am not sure what they can do now the genie is out of the bag?

Mark Drew

CMD
develop • deploy • deliver

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[Joseph Gooch]

It would be far easier to just deploy your Lucee server with OpenJDK.  It's GPL2, so I'd imagine (IANAL) that these concerns do not apply.  Even though the code originated with Oracle it has different licensing and legal terms.

Joe

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[Joseph Gooch]

That said, I doubt most Lucee users are using any of the commercial bits outlined here:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/products/index.html

See Table 1-1.

Joe

[Jochem van Dieten]

On Dec 19, 2016 11:45 AM, "Joseph Gooch" wrote:

That said, I doubt most Lucee users are using any of the commercial bits outlined here:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/products/index.html

Out of the box: no. But the main risk I see is a monitoring solution reading one of the proprietary JMX beans. If for instance the Java Agent of Zabbix were to do so, that could affect a lot of people. So I am glad that on January 1st my second to last machine with Oracle Java will be decommissioned. Go OpenJDK!

Jochem 

Joe

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 7:36 AM, Joseph Gooch <mrwi...@goochfriend.org> wrote:

It would be far easier to just deploy your Lucee server with OpenJDK.  It's GPL2, so I'd imagine (IANAL) that these concerns do not apply.  Even though the code originated with Oracle it has different licensing and legal terms.

Joe

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 4:09 AM, Thomas Loyd <loy...@gmail.com> wrote:

Mark,

I'm making the assumption for now that it won't affect us yet. However, Oracle's corporate greed knows no bounds. I'm just curious as to what are the future potentials for Lucee if the Java ecosystem becomes unfriendly/untenable due to Oracle's need to charge/monetize (monetise for all the Brits out there). I love having CFML in a user-friendly and open-source format. I just feel that it may be time to start "alternativizing" in case this happens.

Node looks to be a potential maybe, or python?

Tom

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[Andrew Penhorwood]

I read this article, the commercial bits article and a number of other articles related to Oracle vs Google.  It seems to me that normal use of Lucee on the Java JDK does not fall under the commercial bits license.  But I am not a lawyer nor have a talked to a lawyer about it.

Andrew Penhowood

[Andrew Penhorwood]

I think the real question might be "how well does Lucee run on OpenJDK?".  That appears to avoid the whole Oracle problem.

Andrew Penhorwood

[Mark Drew]

You can check it you yourself by doing 

> docker run -p 8888:8888 lucee/lucee5 

That is running on tomcat and openJDK AFAIK, 

Mark Drew

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[Jochem van Dieten]

On Dec 19, 2016 3:12 PM, "Andrew Penhorwood" wrote:

I think the real question might be "how well does Lucee run on OpenJDK?".  That appears to avoid the whole Oracle problem.

Only thing I encountered in the last 4 years (including Railo) is some jpg encoding in cfdocument PDF generation that was caused by a 8+ year old itext version. Oracle Java continues to ship with sun.* classes that have been deprecated since forever, and OpenJDK is more proactive in removing them.

But that is all using the packages from Debian / CentOS, I never tried OpenJDK on Windows.

Jochem

[Jochem van Dieten]

On Dec 19, 2016 2:50 PM, "Jochem van Dieten" wrote:

Out of the box: no. But the main risk I see is a monitoring solution reading one of the proprietary JMX beans.

Apparently that can only happen when you use --XX:+UnlockCommercialFeatures http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/7u4-relnotes-1575007.html so you really have to jump through hoops to be affected.

Jochem