Lucee Association Structure

[Peter Boughton]

The new Lucee blog post is very timely; I was just about to ask about
this - however it is still lacking some of what I intended to query.

http://lucee.org/blog/lucee-association-switzerland-structure-update-.html

So, some questions for LAS:

Who are the other representatives of the Member companies? (And why is
Micha not listed on the Members web page? Are there other Individual
Members not listed?)

I'm not asking about sub-committees (though I don't see why that info
can't be released in the same post), but there have been blog posts by
Igal/Andrew/Dominic, and none of them are mentioned. (And why not have
*all* blog posts by a named individual?)

Is the president a company or a person - or I guess I'm asking how does
the representation work?
For example, if Geoff left Daemon for Rasia, would presidency change to
a new Daemon rep or stay with Geoff? Would Dominic replace Alex as
Pixl8 rep in any situation, or are the people voted for not companies?

I'd expect all that to be described on the website (not just as a blog
post, but on the About page or Members page or similar). Do I remember
a website overhaul being planned? If I'm not mixing that up with
something else, what's the status of it?


Actually, back on the sub-committee topic:
> ...we will be letting you know about the first of these
> sub-committees very soon.

So you're planning to drip-feed the info one at a time. Why?

You're not a magazine that needs to keep subscribers reading. Why
would you not state who does what and be done with it?



Thanks,

Peter

[Dominic Watson]

> Why would you not state who does what and be done with it?

Because it takes time to organise. Particularly given that everyone involved are volunteers giving up their free time. We'd all like it to be quicker and smoother, but this is the way it is. When there is something concrete to communicate, it will be communicated but right now there isn't. It is most certainly not a marketing or "drip feeding" exercise.

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[Andrew Dixon]

Hi Peter,

I can answer some of these:

> Is the president a company or a person - or I guess I'm asking how does

> the representation work?
> For example, if Geoff left Daemon for Rasia, would presidency change to
> a new Daemon rep or stay with Geoff? Would Dominic replace Alex as
> Pixl8 rep in any situation, or are the people voted for not companies?

Only a "member" can be elected and the members are either individuals, in the case of Micha, or companies, like Daemon, mso, Pixl8, etc... Each member company has to nominate a representative and if that person was to leave said company, e.g. Geoff left Daemon, then that company must nominate a new representative. There is a provision in the articles for the management board to either accept this new representative as is or if they don't / can't agree on this representative to call and EGM to elect a new management board.

> (And why not have *all* blog posts by a named individual?)

This is a post from LAS not from an individual, so it makes sense for the post to be from LAS.

> Do I remember a website overhaul being planned? 

You do and I believe it is still in the works, but again you have to remember this is all done on a voluntary basis, so progress can sometimes be slow. I will see if I can get an update on this from someone.

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

On 5 July 2015 at 21:28, Peter Boughton <lu...@sorcerersisle.com> wrote:

[Michael Offner]

Please see my comments between the lines.

Micha 

On Sun, Jul 5, 2015 at 10:28 PM, Peter Boughton <lu...@sorcerersisle.com> wrote:

The new Lucee blog post is very timely; I was just about to ask about
this - however it is still lacking some of what I intended to query.

  http://lucee.org/blog/lucee-association-switzerland-structure-update-.html

So, some questions for LAS:

Who are the other representatives of the Member companies? (And why is
Micha not listed on the Members web page? Are there other Individual
Members not listed?)

If a member is listed or not on the website is the decision of the (corporate or individual) member.

So you only see the members that agreed to be listed. 

 

I'm not asking about sub-committees (though I don't see why that info
can't be released in the same post), but there have been blog posts by
Igal/Andrew/Dominic, and none of them are mentioned. (And why not have
*all* blog posts by a named individual?)

This Blog is about the General Assemly, but yes nothing speaks about releasing the members of sub-committees if it makes sense and if the members agree.

 

Is the president a company or a person - or I guess I'm asking how does
the representation work?
For example, if Geoff left Daemon for Rasia, would presidency change to
a new Daemon rep or stay with Geoff? Would Dominic replace Alex as
Pixl8 rep in any situation, or are the people voted for not companies?

Let's take the example of the president (works the same for all coroprate members).

Elected as president is not "Geoff", elected is "daemon", if Geoff quit his job with daemon, dameon needs to decide if he is still the respresentative for daemon, if they define a new representative the rest of the board decides if they accept this new representative.

If yes everything is fine, if not the rest of the board is taking over the role of this member until an new president is elected by a ordianry or extraordianry genral assembly.

 

I'd expect all that to be described on the website (not just as a blog
post, but on the About page or Members page or similar). Do I remember
a website overhaul being planned? If I'm not mixing that up with
something else, what's the status of it?

Sorry i cannot give you an update on this, i'm not involved with the website 

 

Actually, back on the sub-committee topic:
> ...we will be letting you know about the first of these
> sub-committees very soon.

So you're planning to drip-feed the info one at a time. Why?

Because not everything is curved in stone yet, there is master plan to delay any info ...

 

You're not a magazine that needs to keep subscribers reading. Why
would you not state who does what and be done with it?

see above

[Mark Drew]

Do you mean that there is NO master plan to delay info?

[Nando Breiter]

Do you mean that there is NO master plan to delay info?

Some things are curved in stone ... 

Michael Offner wrote:

    So you're planning to drip-feed the info one at a time. Why?

Because not everything is curved in stone yet, there is master plan to
delay any info ...

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[Michael Offner]

No, we only have one to take over the world ;-)

https://michaelhutchenceandme.files.wordpress.com/2012/07/pinky-and-the-brain.jpg

Micha

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[Andrew Dixon]

@Nando you curve stone?

Curve: a line or outline which gradually deviates from being straight for some or all of its length.

Going to assume you meant carve.

:-)

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Jonathon Lucas]

Sorry to jump into this conversation but sort of relevant - how often is the Lucee supporters web page updated? ;)

[Nando Breiter]

I'm not a stone curver by trade, but was only going on what Micha wrote ... and laughing more than I have in months ;-)

Because not everything is curved in stone yet, there is master plan to 
delay any info ...

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[Andrew Dixon]

How did I missed that it was Micha curving the stone!!! :-)

Kind regards,

Andrew

about.me - mso - Lucee Association Member

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[Nando Breiter]

He obviously has extraordinary powers :-)

Aria Media Sagl
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[Adam Cameron]

On Sunday, 5 July 2015 21:28:23 UTC+1, Peter Boughton wrote:

The new Lucee blog post is very timely; I was just about to ask about
this - however it is still lacking some of what I intended to query.

  http://lucee.org/blog/lucee-association-switzerland-structure-update-.html

So, some questions for LAS:

No Gert.

-- 

Adam

[Peter Boughton]

(This message is in reply to all.)

I am fully aware of the issues involved in unpaid volunteer
organisations, and I am NOT demanding super-fast progress and everything
be done now now now. (On the contrary, less haste and more considered
decisions may well help Lucee avoid being slammed head first into a
wall; one of solid metal, not carved stone.)

I am asking for clarity and openness - precisely because of the
unpredictable nature and limited pace - so that the community can
understand what is happening and what is still to come.

Obviously share when you have information, but if you don't, say so
too. Be open and indicate if it's just a matter of time, or whether
there's some other matter than needs resolving first, (particularly if
it's a case where the community might be able to help).

Absolutely do not say "X will happen very soon" unless you are certain
that X *will* happen *very soon* because all the prerequisites are met
and it's a matter of there being an appropriate time to wait for.

LAS is leading a project. Communication is key to that.


Of course, there is still the question of who LAS is.

The website homepage lists five companies in the footer, but the
members page includes a sixth. None of them list the company's
representatives - the community only has an idea from the posts &
interactions of various people, but no confirmation of who is/isn't a
representative of a LAS member company. And there's no indication of
the unknown quantity of members who are unwilling to formally associate
themselves with Lucee.

An open organisation would give information about the key roles - not
sub-committees, but the ones handling the general running of the
association - and I realise that the Swiss Civil Code doesn't obligate
these roles, but they are useful and used by many organisations without
being a requirement.

Is there a secretary now that Geoff is Daemon's representative as
president? (He was acting secretary before, yes?) Who is responsible
for checking and responding to the messages received via the website
forms? Is there a treasurer/accountant who deals with membership fees,
supporters, donations, etc?

These might seem like unimportant details, or irrelevant outside of the
association, but again it all comes back to having an open culture,
enabling the community to trust LAS and be reassured that Lucee is a
viable choice.

[Michael Offner]

Lucee only has 2 natural members ATM, that is me and Tanja, Gert is not and never was a natural member.

There are also no plans to make him a natural member.

Gert also was never in the board of LAS, not before and not after the election.

Gert is part of Rasia Switzerland and Rasia Switzerland is a member of LAS.

Micha

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Adam

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[Michael Offner]

Please see my comments between the lines

Micha

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 2:19 AM, Peter Boughton <lu...@sorcerersisle.com> wrote:

(This message is in reply to all.)

I am fully aware of the issues involved in unpaid volunteer
organisations, and I am NOT demanding super-fast progress and everything
be done now now now. (On the contrary, less haste and more considered
decisions may well help Lucee avoid being slammed head first into a
wall; one of solid metal, not carved stone.)

I am asking for clarity and openness - precisely because of the
unpredictable nature and limited pace - so that the community can
understand what is happening and what is still to come.

 

If we miss to communicate something, this is not a willingly choice you can be sure about that.

The only exception would be, if we think that an information could not be in the interest of the community.

Like we did not share details about the security issue we solved in the last release, for example.

 

Obviously share when you have information, but if you don't, say so
too. Be open and indicate if it's just a matter of time, or whether
there's some other matter than needs resolving first, (particularly if
it's a case where the community might be able to help).

We will do

 

Absolutely do not say "X will happen very soon" unless you are certain
that X *will* happen *very soon* because all the prerequisites are met
and it's a matter of there being an appropriate time to wait for.

This was happening with the Railo Project a lot and we try to avoid this at any coast.

But it is not easy, on one site you want to share the information you have, beeing open, but on the other site your predication is never a 100% right..., what we do to avoid this, we discuss about things first because we communicate it, what also takes time 

 

LAS is leading a project. Communication is key to that.

We are aware of this and we give our best to do this, you will not believe how much time we spend on this!

 

Of course, there is still the question of who LAS is.

The website homepage lists five companies in the footer, but the
members page includes a sixth.

The footer is wrong ..., we will update that asap, also the member page is outdated and will be updated very soon.

 

None of them list the company's
representatives - the community only has an idea from the posts &

interaction s of various people, but no confirmation of who is/isn't a

representative of a LAS member company. And there's no indication of
the unknown quantity of members who are unwilling to formally associate
themselves with Lucee.

Until the last general essembly the board only had natural members, the founding members of the assocication, of course a natural member does not need a representative, at least i hope ;-)

A corporate member does not need to define a representative to be a member, this is only necessary if the member get part of the board. So with the EGA we had a new situation (corporate members in the board), as a first stage we informated about this with a blog post, but i'm sure this will also be reflected on the website in the future (I'm not in charge of the website...). 

 

An open organisation would give information about the key roles - not
sub-committees, but the ones handling the general running of the
association - and I realise that the Swiss Civil Code doesn't obligate
these roles, but they are useful and used by many organisations without
being a requirement.

It is up to the board itself (as defined in the articles of LAS) to decide the roles of the board members (excpect the role of the president)

We had the EGA last week and we voted the board members, after that we simply had no time yet to have a first board meeting and decide about the roles within the board, this should happen on friday. So atm all members of the board have all roles. In practce this is handled by the same persons as before until the board decides the roles.

Of course we have a good idea of who will have which role, but we will not communicate that "idea" before it was offically decided by the board.

 

Is there a secretary now that Geoff is Daemon's representative as
president? (He was acting secretary before, yes?) Who is responsible
for checking and responding to the messages received via the website
forms? Is there a treasurer/accountant who deals with membership fees,
supporters, donations, etc?

See above

 

These might seem like unimportant details, or irrelevant outside of the
association, but again it all comes back to having an open culture,
enabling the community to trust LAS and be reassured that Lucee is a
viable choice.

Completely agree, there is one limitation, if a member decides not to be named anywhere we will respect that as long they are not part of the board. What is btw not the case today.

 

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[Peter Boughton]

Thanks Micha, I've not yet had a chance to fully read your reply, and
I'm unlikely to be able to properly respond for at least a few days, so
just wanted to post quickly to say I'm not ignoring it. :)