Tree Wiring

[Nick Barton-Wells]

Hi all

I am planning the cable runs for my loxone install and have numerous tree devices. 

Looking at the documentation I am trying to find the best practices with regards to running my cable runs. 

At the moment I am going to run each tree devices back to the loxone cab and use the Weidmüller Push In Terminal Block 8x4.

I am now doubting this and wondering if I should wire them in serial.  An example would be all ground floor switches wired in serial, UFH actuators in serial. 

Would love some feedback

Thanks

Nick

[Jonathan Dixon]

I presume you already saw https://www.loxone.com/enen/kb/wiring-basics/#Wiring%20Basics ?
That steers you towards daisy chaining devices.

Some considerations

Daisychain (Bus) topology benefits:

• Reduces cabling needed
• (Greatly) reduces terminal block congestion in the panel
• Once understood by contractor/future maintainer, it gives a very obvious means to expand and adapt in future
• Generally faster to install and program

Star topology benefits

• Not limited to Loxone tree devices only:
• Gives more flexibility - if any one device replaced by non-loxone/non-tree device (either during the install project, or after completion) you can likely repurpose the dedicated cable to power/communicate to the substitute device.
• Dumb-home proofing: If a future home owner decides to rip out Loxone completely, they'd have a better chance to repurpose wiring for dumb switches. (Still needs a central relay bank tho)
• More suited to mix & Match: e.g. using CAT6a/7 cable, you can send power+tree to a device but also have a 2 pairs cores for something else co-located with it.
• essentially all the above come down to "less Loxone lock in"

In all my installs that use Tree, I've done a sort of hybrid: one CAT6a per room, that then daisy chains all devices in the room. (By convention I always make main light switch or the presence sensor the first device per cable drop, depending on the property, to aid debuggability)

expect others to have more pros/cons to add,  and reach differing conclusions!

HTH

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[Daniel Feist]

The other thing to be aware of with daisy-chain is that if you have 50 devices and then need to add any additional devices, you can't.  Whereas if you have separate runs for each room, you can then map these to miniserver and/or tree extension as required.   Bit more work in the panel to have a run per room, but programming effort is the same.  I don't see any reason/advantage to doing a run per device, and things would become quite unmanageable in the panel.

I did one run per room like Johnathon.  This approach also means I also have 4 spare cores per room which I use for inputs for window/door contacts and if I ever need to use 24v in the room in the future, there are less devices per run and therefore less voltage drop (not suitable for lighting though).

I used the main light switch as the first drop, but in hindsight it would have been better to use a presence sensor as the first drop because:
i) there is a bit more room to work above ceiling than in a back-box (In my case I am connecting door contact here, and passing-through 3 additional cores too, which meant quite a bit going on here)

ii) I found the touch pure switch and their push-in connectors to be somewhat vulnerable to removal/replacement and a couple actually failed due to this as the connector decome unsoldered (loxone did replace them).

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/CAN%3DipbbvM9P-d6uLJu_bV16%3DmhCa3YmyNrSb1JWSpuTvqfx5uQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Nick Barton-Wells]

Thanks all for the info

[Paul Watkin]

Hi Nick,

The Tree cable which is sold by Loxone now is somewhat different to the old Tree cable, which was essentially a green sleeved Cat7, and is what was mentioned above by DanF.

The newer Tree cable has the two thin pairs, Green/White (Tree) and Orange/White (24V DC), as well as the thicker 1.5mm2 orange/white (24V DC) cores (only used by the Loxone light fittings or if you want to power something 3rd party) - remember to connect those larger cores every time using Wagos behind switches or at connection points to give you flexibility later on

With the new generation Lxone Tree Cable there are no spare cores so there is no scope for things like door/windows contacts, the outdoor PIR etc without using Cat6 et al entirely separately - so there is no benefit to running the Tree cable back to a central point from each room and at about 300 odd quid for a box of 200M spend some time thinking through the most sensible and economical route around the house before you start.

If running parallel to mains cabling over any kind of distance try to keep about 18inches seperation between the two 

I typically do one Tree per floor plus another for external - so for a 2 storey house ground floor would be on the miniserver, 1st floor would be Tree Extension Left, External Tree Extension Right.

Everything per floor is daisy chained and follows a consistent pattern within each room - I normally start with a light switch as pretty much every room has one - not everywhere has presence sensors or Loxone light fittings etc in the ceiling

Heating valve actuators are on the respective floors Tree branch if using Loxone actuators.

For my own house I am using third party actuators via a relay channel with point to point mains wiring as it is a fraction of the cost - I plan on using Modbus Relays rather than Loxone ones initially to see how well they last - I will however make sure the Tree cable reaches the 4 manifold locations just in case I decide I want to use them later.

I have yet to hit 50 device limit per floor but I don't do mansions!

If you have any external Tree devices (in waterproof boxes or outbuldings etc) have them on a seperate Tree branch - no matter how hard you try water finds its way into external boxes so having a tree failure on the outside only branch doesn't mean darkness in the house!!

Worst Case, most things in the Loxone universe are available in the Air wireless version so don't get too caught up on adding loops of cable here and there "just in case" - there is also an Air transmitter that is small enough to put in a back box behind a switch to provide covrage rather than using the Air extension mounted in the panel.

I don't bother tring to "hybrid" the wiring for a future change of solution, if someone takes Loxone out and wants something else, then its a rewire and they have to live with that - sounds harsh but for me there is no value in installing a solution with half an eye on how to take it back out again in future

Paul

[Daniel Feist]

Only reason to use tree cable with 1.5mm2 cores is if you are using 24v lighting. If doing this, you may need to limit length of runs based on voltage drop though, depending on the number of 24v fittings.

If you don't have 24v light fittings, I'm not sure why anyone would use the Loxone tree cable over just standard CAT7 cable.   The standard CAT7 is cheaper and it gives you the spare cores too for DI.

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/316ba3dd-dde7-422b-ad33-2f077046c147n%40googlegroups.com.

[George Campbell-Kelly]

I did exactly this. Well, I double up the cores to increase the capacity, rather than leaving them unused. 

I used purple cat5 so it can be easily distinguished for normal networking cable. 

I know all my green cabling is KNX. That cable is annoying as all the fittings require a very specific size core, so using the right cable makes instillation much easier. 

Sent from my iPhone

On 6 Jun 2025, at 09:58, Daniel Feist <dfe...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/CADJQLmgg1UqyNbBjxTpQm16g3OcS%3D5%2B65-pKq6Q1ydv7xLPWUA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Paul Watkin]

Hi Daniel,

It's very much horses for courses, I wanted to make sure the OP understood the tree cable had changed over time and that if they or the installer ordered tree cable now they won't get what was referenced in the linked wiring info Joth posted as that still talks about Cat7 or have spare cores as that would be an expensive mix up..

Personally,  for customer installs I will only use Loxone Tree cable as that way there is no come back if there are wiring issues further down the line. That said the first Loxone project I did was part wired by a previous sparks using Cat7 but all additions by me were done in Tree cable and it works fine - i actually found the cat7 harder to work with, prone to snapping when inserted into connectors and much slower to prep with the shielding etc but I am getting old!!

Most of my customers have used the RGBW dimmable spots in bathrooms in any case, so just makes sense for me and even at 300 quid for a roll it is fairly small item in the overall budget for an install. Decent Cat 7 is probably £150 or there abouts for a box?

Loxone's Master / client audio also requires Tree cable albeit for Tree Turbo connections

I am probably not trying hard enough but I also haven't found many uses for the spare cores, except external PIR's which I tend to just daisy chain on a separate cat cable., I would genuinely be interested in what people are installing in rooms that's not Loxone but is piggy backing on the cable?

Paul 

[Jonathan Dixon]

> I am probably not trying hard enough but I also haven't found many uses for the spare cores, except external PIR's which I tend to just daisy chain on a separate cat cable., I would genuinely be interested in what people are installing in rooms that's not Loxone but is piggy backing on the cable?

For me by far and away the most common use for spare cores is digital inputs for retractive light switches. I have yet to meet anyone that wants Loxone 5-point switch, at least not after seeing & using one in the flesh. My projects are mostly period conversions in SE England and brass-effect faceplates are de-rigueur.

That said I'm tending more towards Nano IO in the back box than central DIs, just because it's more flexible and expandable without resulting in a pickle that is hard to document and even harder for anyone in future to understand

Regarding the "future proofing" scenario of reverting to traditional dumb-home, most customers ask what the options would be (most think they may sell in 5-10 year window and want to know Loxone won't hinder pricing - even if gone bust). With 8 core I can state the wiring could be usable with central relays to revert to operate like conventional controls. But then I say by far the simplest dumb-homing option is software only: dumb down the Loxone program to just make all the switches behave as on/off toggles, no re-wiring needed, and it should just sit doing its thing not needing internet or apps or maintenance ever again. (SD Card wear the glaring caveat)

To view this discussion visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/loxone-english/7637d4a2-9c91-417f-8818-e79593844fdan%40googlegroups.com.

[Paul Watkin]

The Loxone Switches are definitely Marmite in nature - if you can get a client to like the concept of scenes then the idea of a single faceplate that does temperature, lighting, audio and blinds is an attractive pitch but as you say only if its a modern property.

Up until the Nano DI Loxone seemed to be missing the option to use other accessories that matched the decor better without the install degenerating into a rats nest of cable.

The Faradite version of the 5 point switch has its place in certain markets but for most people is somewhat flashy.

Based on this message thread and a couple of others I am contemplating using some Nano DI's or IO's to connect up window sensors and exterior PIR's as well as placing some Tree cable loops in proximity to downlights so I can always cut in should I want to add more for inputs later - I always found running cables back to the digital inputs on the Miniserver or Dimmer a bit messy