Re: Abridged summary of leo-editor@googlegroups.com - 1 update in 1 topic
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Paul S. Wilson
Jul 5, 2024, 4:07:53 PM7/5/24
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With the deepest respect for Edward, Felix, and the very many contributors for a project I have followed for 25 years, I must agree.
Branding: unique name, short and descriptive of key benefits, not restricted to coders or VSCode (as JS implementation may go elsewhere)
Consider what people search for:
URL: emphasize key benefits: see above link - no jargon
LEO acknowledged, not emphasized, as potentially confusing VSCode JS extension and Python source
Documentation both textual and video) - ideally from scratch - or highly condensed at least
Best wishes for project I've followed for decades and wish immortality (at least in my lifetime ;)
Paul
On Friday, July 5, 2024, <leo-e...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
On Friday, July 5, 2024, <leo-e...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
- LeoJS needs to be its own thing - 1 Update
Inspired Mars <inspir...@gmail.com>: Jul 05 05:36AM -0700
I’ve watched the progress of “LeoJS” with interest.
What has resulted is something new that deserves to be seen as such.
The millions of people that use Visual Studio Code have no idea ...more
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Paul S. Wilson
Jul 5, 2024, 4:38:10 PM7/5/24
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A better alternative to search for potential users and keywords for a descriptive URLmight be found by pursuing an open source; free; offline, but capable of being hosted freely for collaboration on open source servers; cross platform (Windows, Mac, Linux, Android, IPhone/Pad); personal or shared wiki; with hundreds of open source plugins for specialized needs); oer a decade of development; fully documented etc.
That is the biggest beast to contend with for any version of Leo aimed at a massive market of content creators
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Thomas Passin
Jul 5, 2024, 4:57:38 PM7/5/24
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If Leo-as-an-idea were to be decoupled from both LeoPython and LeoJS, then there ought to be a requirements document that expresses the essence of Leo, and an API that could support the functionality when invoked by any (or many, anyway) language. Then there could be many implementations, in many languages, and they could all meet the requirements.
An interesting idea... and very hard to pull off, I think, considering the difficulty in explaining what Leo *is* and what you can *do* with it. One hard area would be the coupling between Leo and its programming language. The plugin mechanism would probably have to generalized.
OTOH, the Leo bridge could be a route forward. Just like Jupyter can work with many languages because it uses a server for many capabilities, a Leo client in many languages could interact with a Leo bridge server in many languages.
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Edward K. Ream
Jul 6, 2024, 5:37:48 AM7/6/24
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On Friday, July 5, 2024 at 3:57:38 PM UTC-5 tbp1...@gmail.com wrote:
If Leo-as-an-idea were to be decoupled from both LeoPython and LeoJS, then there ought to be a requirements document that expresses the essence of Leo, and an API that could support the functionality.
Leo isn't an idea, it's a Python program.
Leo's core is the API, and Félix has duplicated that API exactly. Félix has brilliantly adapted Leo's gui to vs-code.
All Leonistas are free to promote Leo as they like. I have other items on my agenda.
Edward
Félix
Jul 7, 2024, 12:18:39 AM7/7/24
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Thank you Paul,
I've never thought of looking at 'alternativeto.net' for stuff related to Leo. This is a very good idea to get insights for rehauling the presentation of features and what to put in the forefront of the docs to reach the potential users with more efficiency.
Your other arguments are very interesting and leave me with much to ponder and think about. So thanks for that
----
Thank you also Thomas,
May I remind everyone about the "foundational features" post originally by Edward, which is an issue on Leo's github: https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/1025
This could be a starting point in a hypothetical reference document that would define even in more details and precision the core features of the leonine editor with outlines, independent of its underlying implementation. (python, js, or other...)
The genius of Leo, its 'foundational features independent of their implementation' or, if you will, the 'Leo-as-an-idea' concept... Is the masterpiece, from Edward's mind.
Maybe Edward feels otherwise because its implementation is, as we all know, a monumental achievement. And, on the other hand, the thoughts of the features only came to his mind in a short instant back in 1998 effortlessly.
But that alone, is invaluable and not reproducible.
You can only 'wish' to have ideas of that sort in your lifetime. Edward actually did.
I've never thought of looking at 'alternativeto.net' for stuff related to Leo. This is a very good idea to get insights for rehauling the presentation of features and what to put in the forefront of the docs to reach the potential users with more efficiency.
Your other arguments are very interesting and leave me with much to ponder and think about. So thanks for that
----
Thank you also Thomas,
May I remind everyone about the "foundational features" post originally by Edward, which is an issue on Leo's github: https://github.com/leo-editor/leo-editor/issues/1025
This could be a starting point in a hypothetical reference document that would define even in more details and precision the core features of the leonine editor with outlines, independent of its underlying implementation. (python, js, or other...)
-------
Some personal thoughts:
The genius of Leo, its 'foundational features independent of their implementation' or, if you will, the 'Leo-as-an-idea' concept... Is the masterpiece, from Edward's mind.
Maybe Edward feels otherwise because its implementation is, as we all know, a monumental achievement. And, on the other hand, the thoughts of the features only came to his mind in a short instant back in 1998 effortlessly.
But that alone, is invaluable and not reproducible.
You can only 'wish' to have ideas of that sort in your lifetime. Edward actually did.
Félix
Thomas Passin
Jul 7, 2024, 7:29:35 AM7/7/24
to leo-editor
On Sunday, July 7, 2024 at 12:18:39 AM UTC-4 Félix wrote:
Some personal thoughts:
The genius of Leo, its 'foundational features independent of their implementation' or, if you will, the 'Leo-as-an-idea' concept... Is the masterpiece, from Edward's mind.
Maybe Edward feels otherwise because its implementation is, as we all know, a monumental achievement. And, on the other hand, the thoughts of the features only came to his mind in a short instant back in 1998 effortlessly.
But that alone, is invaluable and not reproducible.
You can only 'wish' to have ideas of that sort in your lifetime. Edward actually did.
I would like to add that Leo as we know it today is the result of a long evolution, during which the ideas of many people helped to shape the present-day Leo. I want to emphasize the idea of an "evolution", because this evolution has led to the amazingly wide utility that Leo users learn as they use it more and more. The continuous improvement over decades is one of the things that separates Leo from so many other editor and even outliner projects.
Offray Vladimir Luna Cárdenas
Aug 5, 2024, 8:17:29 PM8/5/24
to leo-e...@googlegroups.com
Hi,
On 6/07/24 23:18, Félix wrote:
> Some personal thoughts:
>
> The genius of Leo, its 'foundational features independent of their
> implementation' or, if you will, the 'Leo-as-an-idea' concept... Is
> the masterpiece, from Edward's mind.
>
> Maybe Edward feels otherwise because its implementation is, as we all
> know, a monumental achievement. And, on the other hand, the thoughts
> of the features only came to his mind in a short instant back in 1998
> effortlessly.
>
> But that alone, is invaluable and not reproducible.
>
> You can only 'wish' to have ideas of that sort in your lifetime.
> Edward actually did.
> Félix
For me, the most striking idea of Leo is about working non-linearly in
what has been usually treated as a linear medium: textual representation
of ideas (prose and code). The only other environment that gives me such
freedom and emergent structure at the same time, has been
Pharo/Smalltalk. And regarding implementing ideas of Leo in other
environments, my Pharo outliner was pretty much inspired by Leo. I still
would like to have some ideas of Leo in such environments.
So, while the implementation of Leo in Python and LeoJS in Typescript
are pretty remarkable achievements, I think that there is a lot of
potential behind Leo ideas in other computing environments/experiences.
Cheers,
Offray
On 6/07/24 23:18, Félix wrote:
> Some personal thoughts:
>
> The genius of Leo, its 'foundational features independent of their
> implementation' or, if you will, the 'Leo-as-an-idea' concept... Is
> the masterpiece, from Edward's mind.
>
> Maybe Edward feels otherwise because its implementation is, as we all
> know, a monumental achievement. And, on the other hand, the thoughts
> of the features only came to his mind in a short instant back in 1998
> effortlessly.
>
> But that alone, is invaluable and not reproducible.
>
> You can only 'wish' to have ideas of that sort in your lifetime.
> Edward actually did.
> Félix
what has been usually treated as a linear medium: textual representation
of ideas (prose and code). The only other environment that gives me such
freedom and emergent structure at the same time, has been
Pharo/Smalltalk. And regarding implementing ideas of Leo in other
environments, my Pharo outliner was pretty much inspired by Leo. I still
would like to have some ideas of Leo in such environments.
So, while the implementation of Leo in Python and LeoJS in Typescript
are pretty remarkable achievements, I think that there is a lot of
potential behind Leo ideas in other computing environments/experiences.
Cheers,
Offray
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