Culling Getting Started Guides

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Ilya Dmitrichenko

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Jan 10, 2018, 11:28:16 AM1/10/18
to kubernete...@googlegroups.com, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion
Hi Folks,

Over time, a number of Getting Started Guides had been contributed to Kubernetes website.
General quality and levels of maintenance of all of these guides vary. Some achieve similarly
end goals with different tools. At sig-cluster-lifecycle, we believe that the best way to ensure
all documentation related to cluster provisioning and bootstrap that is published on the website
results in a conformant cluster configuration.

We would like to enforce conformance rules on getting started guides, and remove any guides
that result in non-conformant cluster configuration by end of March (i.e. after 1.10 release).

Before we go ahead and implement this, we would like to hear from sig-docs folks and any
maintainers or users of getting started guides.

Best Regards,
Ilya Dmitrichenko (@errordeveloper) / Weave DX 

Chris Short

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Jan 10, 2018, 11:50:49 AM1/10/18
to Ilya Dmitrichenko, kubernetes-sig-docs, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion
My only suggestion is that we ensure that we redirect old URLs to the definitive guide.


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Ihor Dvoretskyi

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Jan 10, 2018, 12:15:32 PM1/10/18
to Chris Short, Ilya Dmitrichenko, kubernetes-sig-docs, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion
Strongly agree on this.


On Wednesday, January 10, 2018, 'Chris Short' via kubernetes-sig-docs <kubernete...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
My only suggestion is that we ensure that we redirect old URLs to the definitive guide.


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Ilya Dmitrichenko <il...@weave.works> wrote:
Hi Folks,

Over time, a number of Getting Started Guides had been contributed to Kubernetes website.
General quality and levels of maintenance of all of these guides vary. Some achieve similarly
end goals with different tools. At sig-cluster-lifecycle, we believe that the best way to ensure
all documentation related to cluster provisioning and bootstrap that is published on the website
results in a conformant cluster configuration.

We would like to enforce conformance rules on getting started guides, and remove any guides
that result in non-conformant cluster configuration by end of March (i.e. after 1.10 release).

Before we go ahead and implement this, we would like to hear from sig-docs folks and any
maintainers or users of getting started guides.

Best Regards,
Ilya Dmitrichenko (@errordeveloper) / Weave DX 

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Steve Perry

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Jan 10, 2018, 12:53:04 PM1/10/18
to Ihor Dvoretskyi, Chris Short, Ilya Dmitrichenko, kubernetes-sig-docs, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion
I've added this to the agenda for our SIG Docs meeting. At first glance, I think it's a good idea.

On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 9:15 AM, Ihor Dvoretskyi <ihor.dv...@gmail.com> wrote:
Strongly agree on this.

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Ilya Dmitrichenko

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Jan 11, 2018, 4:28:38 AM1/11/18
to Chris Short, kubernetes-sig-docs, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion
On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 4:50 PM Chris Short <ch...@chrisshort.net> wrote:
My only suggestion is that we ensure that we redirect old URLs to the definitive guide.

Yes, definetly.
 


On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 11:28 AM, Ilya Dmitrichenko <il...@weave.works> wrote:
Hi Folks,

Over time, a number of Getting Started Guides had been contributed to Kubernetes website.
General quality and levels of maintenance of all of these guides vary. Some achieve similarly
end goals with different tools. At sig-cluster-lifecycle, we believe that the best way to ensure
all documentation related to cluster provisioning and bootstrap that is published on the website
results in a conformant cluster configuration.

We would like to enforce conformance rules on getting started guides, and remove any guides
that result in non-conformant cluster configuration by end of March (i.e. after 1.10 release).

Before we go ahead and implement this, we would like to hear from sig-docs folks and any
maintainers or users of getting started guides.

Best Regards,
Ilya Dmitrichenko (@errordeveloper) / Weave DX 

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Ilya Dmitrichenko

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Jan 17, 2018, 6:24:27 AM1/17/18
to kubernetes-sig-docs, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle
Hey sig-docs folks,

Thanks very much for the discussion on the call yesterday!

From the minutes:

  • SIG-Docs: All in favor

    • SIG Cluster Lifecycle will open a PR of GSGs to remove (Ilya)

    • Reach out to owners for state of guide conformance?

    • Add conformance/GSG removal to in-flight guide (Zach)


I will follow-up with the action items shortly.

Kind Regards,
Ilya / Weave DX 

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 9:32 AM Ilya Dmitrichenko <il...@weave.works> wrote:
Folks,

Thanks for the discussion so far. Looking forward to talking more at the next sig-docs meeting.
It'd help if we could make sure to reach out to original authors of guides, I wouldn't imagine that
many of them attend sig-docs calls regularly, perhaps we could just email them after we reach
a conclusion within sig-docs and ask for comments, what do people think?

Best,
Ilya 

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 7:54 AM 'Robert Bailey' via Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 1:52 PM, Tim Pepper <tpe...@vmware.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 1:42:51 PM UTC-8, Ihor Dvoretskyi wrote:
It's already determined https://github.com/cncf/k8s-conformance 


I meant more practically:  Who sets up the underlying infra?  Who follows the guide?  Who runs Sonobouy on the results of this setup?  Who asserts and records results?  When does this happen? How is it all version controlled?

The intent (as discussed during the sig cluster lifecycle meeting) is that each getting started guide maintainer is responsible for providing proof of conformance. We haven't worked out the details of how that is vetted, but we wanted to send out a very early notice so that folks that are interested in keeping their guides in the official documentation have plenty of time to ensure that they can pass the conformance suites. 

I would expect more details about the practical mechanics of vetting guides and removing non-conformant guides to be shared as we approach the 1.10 release date. 
 
 
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Ilya Dmitrichenko

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Feb 5, 2018, 10:46:53 AM2/5/18
to kubernetes-sig-docs
Hey Folks,

Apologies for not being able to follow up with AIs sooner.

I've got a first PR out and it's a straightforward removal of the CentOS guide
that had been deprecated a while ago. I'll be looking into other guides soon.


Thanks,
Ilya 


On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 11:24:27 AM UTC, Ilya Dmitrichenko wrote:
Hey sig-docs folks,

Thanks very much for the discussion on the call yesterday!

From the minutes:

  • SIG-Docs: All in favor

    • SIG Cluster Lifecycle will open a PR of GSGs to remove (Ilya)

    • Reach out to owners for state of guide conformance?

    • Add conformance/GSG removal to in-flight guide (Zach)


I will follow-up with the action items shortly.

Kind Regards,
Ilya / Weave DX 

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 9:32 AM Ilya Dmitrichenko <il...@weave.works> wrote:
Folks,

Thanks for the discussion so far. Looking forward to talking more at the next sig-docs meeting.
It'd help if we could make sure to reach out to original authors of guides, I wouldn't imagine that
many of them attend sig-docs calls regularly, perhaps we could just email them after we reach
a conclusion within sig-docs and ask for comments, what do people think?

Best,
Ilya 

On Thu, Jan 11, 2018 at 7:54 AM 'Robert Bailey' via Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion <kubernetes-dev@googlegroups.com> wrote:
On Wed, Jan 10, 2018 at 1:52 PM, Tim Pepper <tpe...@vmware.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, January 10, 2018 at 1:42:51 PM UTC-8, Ihor Dvoretskyi wrote:
It's already determined https://github.com/cncf/k8s-conformance 


I meant more practically:  Who sets up the underlying infra?  Who follows the guide?  Who runs Sonobouy on the results of this setup?  Who asserts and records results?  When does this happen? How is it all version controlled?

The intent (as discussed during the sig cluster lifecycle meeting) is that each getting started guide maintainer is responsible for providing proof of conformance. We haven't worked out the details of how that is vetted, but we wanted to send out a very early notice so that folks that are interested in keeping their guides in the official documentation have plenty of time to ensure that they can pass the conformance suites. 

I would expect more details about the practical mechanics of vetting guides and removing non-conformant guides to be shared as we approach the 1.10 release date. 
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Ilya Dmitrichenko

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Feb 7, 2018, 1:55:12 PM2/7/18
to kubernetes-sig-docs
I've just created https://github.com/kubernetes/website/issues/7278 to track further progress on this.

Ilya Dmitrichenko

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Feb 13, 2018, 7:56:40 AM2/13/18
to kubernetes-sig-docs, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle
I've made progress on removing 3 guides that were evidently out-of-date.

I need help identifying the status of two Fedora guides (these depend on one another):


Next, I am going to look at Ubuntu guides.

I am not sure how to approach guides that use a hosted services.

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Brian Grant

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Feb 26, 2018, 11:07:55 AM2/26/18
to Ilya Dmitrichenko, kubernetes-sig-docs, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle
Do we have a list of all certified Kubernetes services, distributions, and tools?

I suggest the following categories:

1. Open-source tools developed by SIG Cluster Lifecycle: kubeadm, kops, kubespray, minikube, kube-up.sh (until it is deleted), etc., with some guidance about the role of each.
2. Pointers to other Certified Kubernetes implementations
3. Pointer to Kubernetes the Hard Way

The above roughly correspond to our original 3 categories of DIY, K8s services, and from scratch.

Misc. old DIY guides should be culled.

Ilya 
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Ihor Dvoretskyi

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Feb 26, 2018, 11:16:53 AM2/26/18
to Brian Grant, Ilya Dmitrichenko, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle, kubernetes-sig-docs
Great suggestion, I second this.

Ilya 
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Tim St. Clair

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Feb 26, 2018, 1:02:43 PM2/26/18
to Brian Grant, Ilya Dmitrichenko, kubernetes-sig-docs, kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle
On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 10:07 AM, 'Brian Grant' via
kubernetes-sig-cluster-lifecycle
<kubernetes-sig-c...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
> Do we have a list of all certified Kubernetes services, distributions, and
> tools?

Yes, all providers and tools are spelled out as part of the
certification process - https://github.com/cncf/k8s-conformance
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