Publicly proposing SIG-CLI

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Fabiano Franz

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Sep 22, 2016, 4:37:54 PM9/22/16
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I've been talking to a few people in the past couple weeks and now we'd like to formally propose the creation of SIG-CLI (Special Interest Group for the Kubernetes Command Line Interface).

The idea would be to have a centralized place / meeting to discuss things related to the CLI architecture, standards, compliance, and usability; or anything else related to `kubectl` (and likely others) that might need deeper or more top-level interactions than what we can do in pull requests. Some nice examples are the recent discussions around refactoring cmdutil.Factory, the kubectl extensions framework, moving printers to the server, etc.

Let me know if that sounds like something we need and want. I wrote a draft[1] of what could be our brief mission statement and I'll start the process depending on your feedback.

Thanks!

Fabiano Franz
Senior Software Engineer
Red Hat OpenShift

[1] "SIG-CLI

The Kubernetes Command Line Interface SIG (sig-cli) is a working group for the contributor community interested in `kubectl` and related tools.

We focus on the development and standardization of the CLI framework and its dependencies, the establishment of conventions for writing CLI commands, POSIX compliance, and improving the command line tools from a developer and devops user experience and usability perspective."

DL duglin

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Sep 22, 2016, 5:09:16 PM9/22/16
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yes yes yes huge +1

-Doug

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Aaron Crickenberger

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Sep 22, 2016, 7:50:47 PM9/22/16
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Yes please, CLI is its own brand of user experience

- aaron

Aaron Crickenberger

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Sep 22, 2016, 7:53:13 PM9/22/16
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That said, the draft link came across as '[1] "SIG-CLI' to me.  Typo?  This seems like a group with potential overlap with other sigs like api machinery, would be useful to better understand the boundaries.

- aaron

Daniel Smith

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Sep 22, 2016, 7:55:15 PM9/22/16
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API machinery does not want to own the user-facing half of kubectl, I'm reasonably sure.

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Brian Grant

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Sep 22, 2016, 8:42:39 PM9/22/16
to Aaron Crickenberger, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, ffr...@redhat.com, kubernet...@googlegroups.com, Phillip Wittrock
Would love to see more development on kubectl.

Our wish list:
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Clayton Coleman

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Sep 22, 2016, 8:42:46 PM9/22/16
to Daniel Smith, Aaron Crickenberger, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, ffr...@redhat.com, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
+1 - API machinery supports clients and sigs, but does not own them (it can help own client machinery though)

Daniel Smith

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Sep 22, 2016, 8:50:01 PM9/22/16
to Clayton Coleman, Aaron Crickenberger, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, ffr...@redhat.com, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
Yeah, the API machinery charter explicitly disclaims the CLI: https://goo.gl/x5nWrF

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 5:42 PM, Clayton Coleman <ccol...@redhat.com> wrote:
+1 - API machinery supports clients and sigs, but does not own them (it can help own client machinery though)

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Stefan Schimanski

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Sep 23, 2016, 2:53:55 AM9/23/16
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+1 - very good idea


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Ihor Dvoretskyi

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Sep 23, 2016, 4:39:54 AM9/23/16
to Stefan Schimanski, Fabiano Franz, Kubernetes Dev, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
+1 - I'm suprised that this SIG hasn't been established yet.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 9:53 AM Stefan Schimanski <st...@redhat.com> wrote:
+1 - very good idea

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Fabiano Franz <ffr...@redhat.com> wrote:
I've been talking to a few people in the past couple weeks and now we'd like to formally propose the creation of SIG-CLI (Special Interest Group for the Kubernetes Command Line Interface).

The idea would be to have a centralized place / meeting to discuss things related to the CLI architecture, standards, compliance, and usability; or anything else related to `kubectl` (and likely others) that might need deeper or more top-level interactions than what we can do in pull requests. Some nice examples are the recent discussions around refactoring cmdutil.Factory, the kubectl extensions framework, moving printers to the server, etc.

Let me know if that sounds like something we need and want. I wrote a draft[1] of what could be our brief mission statement and I'll start the process depending on your feedback.

Thanks!

Fabiano Franz
Senior Software Engineer
Red Hat OpenShift

[1] "SIG-CLI

The Kubernetes Command Line Interface SIG (sig-cli) is a working group for the contributor community interested in `kubectl` and related tools.

We focus on the development and standardization of the CLI framework and its dependencies, the establishment of conventions for writing CLI commands, POSIX compliance, and improving the command line tools from a developer and devops user experience and usability perspective."

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Ado Tony

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Sep 23, 2016, 7:49:13 AM9/23/16
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As we already discussed on email, I believe it's time to do this. :) Really look forward to this.

在 2016年9月23日星期五 UTC+8上午4:37:54,Fabiano Franz写道:

Ilya Dmitrichenko

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Sep 23, 2016, 8:29:41 AM9/23/16
to Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com

Great idea!

Q: dies API machinery SIG own the API UX? If not, it would make sense to consider overall API and CLI as a broader UX topic.


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Andy Goldstein

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Sep 23, 2016, 9:00:47 AM9/23/16
to Stefan Schimanski, Fabiano Franz, Kubernetes Dev, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
+1 we should definitely do this.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 2:53 AM, Stefan Schimanski <st...@redhat.com> wrote:
+1 - very good idea

On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Fabiano Franz <ffr...@redhat.com> wrote:
I've been talking to a few people in the past couple weeks and now we'd like to formally propose the creation of SIG-CLI (Special Interest Group for the Kubernetes Command Line Interface).

The idea would be to have a centralized place / meeting to discuss things related to the CLI architecture, standards, compliance, and usability; or anything else related to `kubectl` (and likely others) that might need deeper or more top-level interactions than what we can do in pull requests. Some nice examples are the recent discussions around refactoring cmdutil.Factory, the kubectl extensions framework, moving printers to the server, etc.

Let me know if that sounds like something we need and want. I wrote a draft[1] of what could be our brief mission statement and I'll start the process depending on your feedback.

Thanks!

Fabiano Franz
Senior Software Engineer
Red Hat OpenShift

[1] "SIG-CLI

The Kubernetes Command Line Interface SIG (sig-cli) is a working group for the contributor community interested in `kubectl` and related tools.

We focus on the development and standardization of the CLI framework and its dependencies, the establishment of conventions for writing CLI commands, POSIX compliance, and improving the command line tools from a developer and devops user experience and usability perspective."

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Clayton Coleman

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Sep 23, 2016, 9:17:20 AM9/23/16
to Ilya Dmitrichenko, Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
Yes, today API machinery owns API UX.  Since the API has to work for multiple clients well it needs to take requirements from the various clients.

Phillip Wittrock

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Sep 26, 2016, 12:14:15 PM9/26/16
to Clayton Coleman, Ilya Dmitrichenko, Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
I'll start the ball rolling on getting the resources for a SIG setup and some proposed meeting times.

On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 6:17 AM, Clayton Coleman <ccol...@redhat.com> wrote:
Yes, today API machinery owns API UX.  Since the API has to work for multiple clients well it needs to take requirements from the various clients.

On Sep 23, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Ilya Dmitrichenko <il...@weave.works> wrote:

Great idea!

Q: dies API machinery SIG own the API UX? If not, it would make sense to consider overall API and CLI as a broader UX topic.


On Fri, 23 Sep 2016, 12:49 Ado Tony, <coo...@gmail.com> wrote:
As we already discussed on email, I believe it's time to do this. :) Really look forward to this.

在 2016年9月23日星期五 UTC+8上午4:37:54,Fabiano Franz写道:
I've been talking to a few people in the past couple weeks and now we'd like to formally propose the creation of SIG-CLI (Special Interest Group for the Kubernetes Command Line Interface).

The idea would be to have a centralized place / meeting to discuss things related to the CLI architecture, standards, compliance, and usability; or anything else related to `kubectl` (and likely others) that might need deeper or more top-level interactions than what we can do in pull requests. Some nice examples are the recent discussions around refactoring cmdutil.Factory, the kubectl extensions framework, moving printers to the server, etc.

Let me know if that sounds like something we need and want. I wrote a draft[1] of what could be our brief mission statement and I'll start the process depending on your feedback.

Thanks!

Fabiano Franz
Senior Software Engineer
Red Hat OpenShift

[1] "SIG-CLI

The Kubernetes Command Line Interface SIG (sig-cli) is a working group for the contributor community interested in `kubectl` and related tools.

We focus on the development and standardization of the CLI framework and its dependencies, the establishment of conventions for writing CLI commands, POSIX compliance, and improving the command line tools from a developer and devops user experience and usability perspective."

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Fabiano Franz

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Sep 27, 2016, 4:13:11 PM9/27/16
to Phillip Wittrock, Clayton Coleman, Ilya Dmitrichenko, Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
Thanks for the feedback everyone!

SIG-CLI was created as a slack channel, a mailing list, and a github team.

We now need to set a time for the SIG meetings. At least initially we'd like to make it bi-weekly and try to avoid conflicts with the other existing ones, as far as possible. If you're interested in participating, please indicate a couple preferred times with the timezone and we'll try to make it work for at least the most people.

Thanks!

Fabiano Franz
Senior Software Engineer
Red Hat OpenShift

On Mon, Sep 26, 2016 at 1:13 PM, 'Phillip Wittrock' via Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion <kuberne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:
I'll start the ball rolling on getting the resources for a SIG setup and some proposed meeting times.
On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 6:17 AM, Clayton Coleman <ccol...@redhat.com> wrote:
Yes, today API machinery owns API UX.  Since the API has to work for multiple clients well it needs to take requirements from the various clients.

On Sep 23, 2016, at 8:29 AM, Ilya Dmitrichenko <il...@weave.works> wrote:

Great idea!

Q: dies API machinery SIG own the API UX? If not, it would make sense to consider overall API and CLI as a broader UX topic.


On Fri, 23 Sep 2016, 12:49 Ado Tony, <coo...@gmail.com> wrote:
As we already discussed on email, I believe it's time to do this. :) Really look forward to this.

在 2016年9月23日星期五 UTC+8上午4:37:54,Fabiano Franz写道:
I've been talking to a few people in the past couple weeks and now we'd like to formally propose the creation of SIG-CLI (Special Interest Group for the Kubernetes Command Line Interface).

The idea would be to have a centralized place / meeting to discuss things related to the CLI architecture, standards, compliance, and usability; or anything else related to `kubectl` (and likely others) that might need deeper or more top-level interactions than what we can do in pull requests. Some nice examples are the recent discussions around refactoring cmdutil.Factory, the kubectl extensions framework, moving printers to the server, etc.

Let me know if that sounds like something we need and want. I wrote a draft[1] of what could be our brief mission statement and I'll start the process depending on your feedback.

Thanks!

Fabiano Franz
Senior Software Engineer
Red Hat OpenShift

[1] "SIG-CLI

The Kubernetes Command Line Interface SIG (sig-cli) is a working group for the contributor community interested in `kubectl` and related tools.

We focus on the development and standardization of the CLI framework and its dependencies, the establishment of conventions for writing CLI commands, POSIX compliance, and improving the command line tools from a developer and devops user experience and usability perspective."

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Brian Grant

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Sep 27, 2016, 4:18:03 PM9/27/16
to Fabiano Franz, Phillip Wittrock, Clayton Coleman, Ilya Dmitrichenko, Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
Could we please use the existing kubectl github team instead?

On Tue, Sep 27, 2016 at 1:12 PM, Fabiano Franz <ffr...@redhat.com> wrote:
Thanks for the feedback everyone!

SIG-CLI was created as a slack channel, a mailing list, and a github team.

We now need to set a time for the SIG meetings. At least initially we'd like to make it bi-weekly and try to avoid conflicts with the other existing ones, as far as possible. If you're interested in participating, please indicate a couple preferred times with the timezone and we'll try to make it work for at least the most people.

Thanks!

Fabiano Franz
Senior Software Engineer
Red Hat OpenShift

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Fabiano Franz

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Sep 27, 2016, 4:20:08 PM9/27/16
to Brian Grant, Phillip Wittrock, Clayton Coleman, Ilya Dmitrichenko, Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
Works for me. If we decide we don't need the new github team I can just delete it.


DL duglin

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Sep 27, 2016, 5:32:19 PM9/27/16
to Fabiano Franz, Phillip Wittrock, Clayton Coleman, Ilya Dmitrichenko, Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
I’d prefer a call later in the week as most of the other ones that I’m involved in seem to prefer early week calls.
Maybe 10am ET on Fridays?  Trying to keep it from being too late for europe

-Doug

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Ihor Dvoretskyi

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Sep 27, 2016, 5:42:25 PM9/27/16
to DL duglin, Fabiano Franz, Phillip Wittrock, Clayton Coleman, Ilya Dmitrichenko, Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
10am ET is a good time for me (as for a Europe-based representative), but please, don't do it it on Friday - not the best day for SIG conversations at the end of the week.

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Phillip Wittrock

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Sep 27, 2016, 6:36:02 PM9/27/16
to Ihor Dvoretskyi, DL duglin, Fabiano Franz, Clayton Coleman, Ilya Dmitrichenko, Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
10ET is a bit early for me (7am PT).  I could do 11 or 12 ET.  I suspect all of these times may be difficult for @AdoHe

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Brian Grant

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Sep 27, 2016, 8:31:07 PM9/27/16
to Phillip Wittrock, Ihor Dvoretskyi, DL duglin, Fabiano Franz, Clayton Coleman, Ilya Dmitrichenko, Ado Tony, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
How about we hash this out on the new SIG mailing list? :-)

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Ado Tony

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Sep 27, 2016, 8:32:18 PM9/27/16
to Brian Grant, Phillip Wittrock, Ihor Dvoretskyi, DL duglin, Fabiano Franz, Clayton Coleman, Ilya Dmitrichenko, Kubernetes developer/contributor discussion, kubernet...@googlegroups.com
10ET is a bit early for me too(3pm AT). I would like 11ET. That's ok for me.

2016-09-28 8:31 GMT+08:00 Brian Grant <brian...@google.com>:
How about we hash this out on the new SIG mailing list? :-)
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