Iran bombs natural gas facility in Qatar

[kan...@aol.com]

https://www.nbcnews.com/world/iran/iran-war-gas-field-attacks-energy-prices-trump-israel-south-pars-rcna264249

This facility processes like 20-30% of the world's natural gas. 

I'm really glad that Trump/Hegseth have Iran's capabilities eliminated. 

I haven't heard about a miscalculation this bad since Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. They didn't realize until too late that they had "awakened a sleeping giant" 

Google says that Admiral Yamamoto may or may not have actually said this. But it did make it into some movies. 

Napoleon said something similar about China years earlier. 

Enough wonk. The miscalculation was epic. 

Gas/oil prices continue to skyrocket. The fallout is massive and not nearly done. .

[B Keg]

So no outrage at Iran, only Trump? Your TDS is overwhelming.

Be nice, even when you don't want to!

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[kan...@aol.com]

This is too easy, Brian. I break into your house. I trash the entire place. I kill your wife (she IS the head of household, right?). 

And you decide to retaliate. And the world blames YOU. 

You're a fucking moron. 

Iran wouldn't have done any of this if TRUMP hadn't started whatever it is he started. He didn't have a fucking clue as to what the outcome or fallout might be. He still has no clue. And you think I have TDS. Maybe it's all the sycophants, apologists and low knowledge warmongers who support this fiasco. 

I TOLD you this would happen. Sorry to be right. At least one person in Trump's orbit warned of this. But Trump's mind was made up long ago. He literally didn't/doesn't care about any of the fallout. Watch him insult the press when the ask him about an endgame or when they ask him about the dead American military. 

TDS probably is best translated to "We knew it all along". 

TDS type II is you; kissing ass, sucking dick and defending him no matter. If you want to accuse me/us of putting words in your mouth, then explain differently. But far as I can tell you're all in on his actions toward Iran. And far as I can tell, you don't seem to care what the fallout is. And if the fallout does bother you, it's Iran's fault, not Trump, not Netanyahu, just Iran. 

I'd call your stance here beyond deranged and pretty devoid of reality. 

[Brian Kegerreis]

Talk about easy...I retaliate and go after you 5, minutes later I'm resting because you are ended. However, I go after Dave's family on purpose not on accident on purpose and the world blames you.... then they are my useful idiots.  

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[kan...@aol.com]

Well that was confusing. Off your meds again?

We attack Iran. Iran retaliates in various ways. 

They get blamed

The root cause was OUR attack on Iran. They view Bahrain, Qatar, UAE, Kuwait as allies of ours. They get attacked for reasons similar to Israel, minus the whole Jew thing. 

Maybe Iran's leaders are smarter than Trump (and you).  By disrupting oil/gas supplies all over the place, it might (has?) forced the US to allow Iranian oil to get shipped again. Can you explain any other reason why we're now allowing Iran to ship oil? Wasn't weakening their economy one of the points of the attack? 

You seem to be caught up in the confusion sown by Trump. But let's be clear. We started something. Trump had no fucking clue what might transpire; and it did. 

I said it would happen. At least one in Trump's orbit said it would happen. It happened. 

But congratulations on assuming the Goebbels role in Trump's admin. You could spoon feed Caroline Leavitt talking points. She doesn't deal in reality either. 

[Brian Kegerreis]

Hey it was your analogy let's review

You attack me kille my wife etc....

I retaliate by attacking you in real life that woukd last about 1.3 seconds and be over.  However to try to fit your analogy not only do attack you, I also attack Dave and and G and Craig. Now maybe I attacked Craig because he also attacked me but G and Dave did not. 

Somehow I convince all the useful idiots, like you in real life, that my attacking Dave and G are your fault. 

Yay me.

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[kan...@aol.com]

Iran is attacking all the locals that are aligned with the US. That makes them a perceived enemy. 

Your take on the analogy is mistaken. After I kill your wife and trash your house, you retaliate. That includes  going after me and the guy driving the getaway car and the other guy acting as lookout. And THAT makes sense. 

Yay me. 

But I'd still be to blame. And in fact, drivers and lookouts get the same jail sentence as the perp of whatever crime was committed. And that includes getting convicted of murder even if never in the house. So Iran is punishing Qatar, UAE, Bahrain, Kuwait, etc for being the getaway driver/lookouts while the US did the actual damage. The US is to blame. 

If the US (or me) never did the initial crime, there wouldn't have been any retaliation by Iran (or you). And since your water was shut off, I could have just stood outside and waited for your household to fall apart and you to leave. Iran is just that predicament. 

[B Keg]

Wiat the original crime is taking the hostages arming the houthis hammas and hezbollah with weapons used against the US and our allies killing Americans, and many innocent civilians,  attempted political assassinations inside the US and many other vile acts against the US and our allies. The Islamofascist regime has been at war with the US since 1979 so clearly we are not the aggressors. 

Be nice, even when you don't want to!

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[kan...@aol.com]

Right Brian; because all of us here are such fucking idiots that we don't know about the past. 

What people with functioning brains DO KNOW is that nothing was changing much. The situation was stable. 

In fact, OBAMA had gotten Iran to live up to a pretty good deal. Trump dumped that. 

And more recently Trump's minions were negotiating with Iran up until the bombs started falling. 

Iran and the world at large won't forget that. It means that negotiating with Trump is a useless performance. Trump will do what he wants, period. 

Any negotiation needs to be treated as either capitulate completely or expect your ass to get lit on fire .That's not diplomacy or negotiation; that's bullying and threatening. 

How FEW brain cells does it take to connect today's attacks on Iran with the taking of hostages in the '70's? 

I'd say about the same number that it takes to think that suddenly Hamas/Hezbollah were a greater threat now than yesterday.

There was ZERO critical need to suddenly launch an all-out assault on Iran. Especially true with the obvious poor planning and total lack of predicting how Iran would react. Trump/Hegseth jumped headfirst into a cesspool; now they don't know which way is up. 

[B Keg]

A pretty good deal?

Hey terrorist state Iran, we'll give you hundreds of millions of dollars so you can build missiles and bombs and arm your proxies to kill Americans is never part of a good deal.

Be nice, even when you don't want to!

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[kan...@aol.com]

Oh, Brian, you're Obama/Trump derangement still is strong. The Obama admin didn't GIVE money to Iran. They allowed Iran to have their own money back. Reagan did the same thing years ago, with TEN times more money. 

Sauce goose=sauce gander. In negotiating with Iran, both POTUS deemed it appropriate to give back money that belonged to Iran. We never actually took it. We just froze the accounts. 

Garsh, Mickey, aren't FACTS really cool? Don't you wish everyone dealt with them? 

Right, Goofy. 

And while we're trying on reality for size, now that we've bombed the shit out of Iran, presumably seriously damaging their oil/gas production (i.e. money) and their military, we still seem to be taking hits from them. So much for the Trump/Hegseth approach to diplomacy, Every country near Iran is being damaged. Even Tel Aviv has taken hits. And now Israel is  considering a full invasion of Lebanon. 

Peace is breaking out all over. 

And Trump, along with his sycophantic trolls/minions/BK's remain unable to explain why a problem that some say has existed for over 40 years is SUDDENLY an issue that has to be fixed TODAY. And every day they come up with new different excuses that are nothing like the ones cited at the beginning of the excursion. 

And US citizens, including many disaffected MAGA folks, are beginning to read the tea leaves. Whatever excuse Trump offers up is a LIE. 

[Brian Kegerreis]

So Iran got 100s of millions of dollars and used that to build missiles to killed Americans and Israelis and blow up gas plants. You must be so proud. 

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[kan...@aol.com]

Didn't you already make that  point about one post ago? Meds needs adjusting.........again. 

Obama didn't GIVE money to Iran, like we do to say Ukraine or Israel. We unfroze THEIR money. 

If your bank freezes your account due to some computer glitch or other issue and then fixes the  problem, they haven't GIVEN you any money. They just let you have what was always yours. Enough sock-puppetish for you? 

Here's article laden with FACTS about the Obama/Iran dealings:

https://armscontrolcenter.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Fact-check-iran-deal-1.pdf

I read it a suggesting that Obama did a GOOD thing. When Trump scuttled the arrangement, Iran didn't have very much bomb grade uranium. That's what was intended. But Trump has "fixed" all that. And I still have a bridge over the East River to sell you. 

[Brian Kegerreis]

Before Obama gave it to them in cash... could they use it to pay for terrorism or bombs to kill Americans with?

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[kan...@aol.com]

Oh God, Brian. Iran was funding terrorism just fine BEFORE Obama released the funds. But you know this; and you're just throwing red herrings at us. It doesn't matter what Obama did years ago. You know that too. And if we had kept the money frozen, Iran would still have funded terrorism and done whatever else mischief they had planned. Oh, and they'd have enriched uranium that- the deal successfully kept Iran from making. 

Now, no deal. And Iran has no reason to help broker some kind of deal. And enough damage from an outside agent will make Iranis quickly forget who was slaughtering them last week. "Better the Devil you  know.......". 

I did a bit of Google search. It appears that Iranis are very divided on the war issue. Some see it as the start of their liberation from the Islmic regime. Others see it as an attack by an outside aggressor. Also noted is that Iran exerts extreme internal controls over its citizens, unlike Syria or Lebanon. This may be a significant miscalculation by the US in regards to what Iran's citizens will do. But hey, miscalculations are Trump's stock in trade. So here we are. 

Also saw that Iran makes lethal drone for $35K a pop. And we make Tomahawks to shoot them down at $4 mil a pop. Welcome to the world of todays asymmetrical warfare. Get used to it; it's not going away tomorrow. 

[Brian Kegerreis]

So Iran has been at war with us all this time after all. Good to see you finally admit it.

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[kan...@aol.com]

No Brian; I'd say that they've really been at war with ISRAEL. That's the nation that gets attacked by Iranian proxies. Can you please tell us the US losses over this time period? Please include deaths, wounded, and loss of materiel. I'd put OUR losses at really near ZERO. Not much of a war, far as I can tell. 

But no matter what you call Iran's role in Mideast mischief, suggesting that it was SUDDENLY a "casus belli" is beyond ridiculous. So it's up to you to explain what happened a couple of weeks ago that hadn't happened in the previous decades. 
I'll give hints:
Failing economy that US citizens were blaming on Trump

Epstein and the unreleased files, in violation of law that TRUMP signed. 

Excuse to call off or take control of '26 election cycle; which looms as a disaster for Reps and Trump

Way to jack up oil prices to please some of his corporate cronies. 

Goading by Benny Netanyahu. 

But Iran was not any more belligerent than it has been for a LONG time. In fact, they were once again engaging in negotiations with Trump. That was an obvious mistake. 

I'm old enough to remember when a war was something that was declared by Congress; and if not at least acknowledged by POTUS. So far all we have is that this is an excursion. And the last 40 years have been nothing but terrorism. And as I recall, other actors have been at it. ISIS, al Queda, etc. We didn't call our adventures against them a war (war on terrorism is  misnomer). So there's that. 

As for this thread, you've  now entered into a parsing of semantics. War, not war, terrorism. Just deal with the FACTS on the ground. 

Don't bother with a name, or with Obama or Biden. 

We attacked Iran for suspicious, ill-defined, unexplained reasons. Trump was clearly not prepared for the fallout that ensued. He expected another Venezuela, and said as much. He was warned that it wouldn't be like that, and I/they were right. So now he's stuck bobbing and weaving, trying to explain this mess to the US  people and whatever allies remain. He's resorted to really crazy actions to stem the tide of rising oil/gas prices, including easing sanctions on Russia and Iran. And Russia is shipping  oil to Cuba TODAY. It'll be interesting to see if Trump will allow that shipment to reach port. 

And about two dozen countries are directly or indirectly involved in the outcome of this fiasco. 

Sounds kind of world war-ish to me. 

[David Fairchild]

Ken, I am fully on board with your post here except this one claim for which I call BS (unless you mean something other than literal): "I'm old enough to remember when a war was something that was declared by Congress."

As I understand, people need to be at least aged two before they can begin to remember things with any accuracy and context. You're not yet 87, are you?

[kan...@aol.com]

I'm getting there Dave; but not 87 yet. I don't actually remember a war being declared in my lifetime; true enough. But I do recall the that the notion used to apply. I've seen (I guess we all have) movies and documentaries of previous times when wars were declared. I do know that the Vietnam war was undeclared; but at least it was recognized for what it was- a war. The Korean War wasn't declared either; but at least it was properly labeled. Today's conflict is still being referred to as "an excursion". I'll give Trump credit for meaning "incursion". After all, everyone else gives him a break on his very inaccurate  speech, unlike a previous POTUS. 

That said, incursion/excursion doesn't quite fit the extent of what is happening. 

The point that I've been making is that Trump is being very evasive about what is happening. On one hand he has Hegseth touting our military competence and "lethality". OTOH Trump doesn't want to use any language, like war, that might imply that this is a "big deal". Facts, on the other hand, say otherwise. Just ask all the gulf states that are currently on fire.