Another name

[Tad Davis]

While we're on the subject of names... In A Drama in Livonia, one of the characters, a young woman,  is named Ilka Nicolef. The Nicolef seems clearly to be a version of Nikolaev; but Ilka is a puzzle. Could it be an attempt to render "Yulka," a diminutive of Yulia? And if so, given that Yulka could be either an affectionate nickname or an insult—so several web sites on Russian names inform me—wouldn't it be safer for her friends to use the more common derivative, Yulenka? (Not to mention more euphonic.)

 

Of course, it appears that Yulka and Yulenka can also be derived from Ulyanna.

 

(Her brother is called Jean Nicolef in the French, and to shift that into Ivan Nikolaev doesn't seem too drastic to me.)

 

Any experts in Russian names among the members of the group? (And given that this character is a Baltic Russian, per the novel's terminology, rather than a native Russian—does that change the answer? If there's no clear alternative, like there is for Jean, then Ilka she remains.

 

I know that many of these people were fluent in French, and in the Baltics at the time they would have had to be fluent in German as well. But Verne is at pains to emphasize their Slavic identity. If nothing else, this seems worth a footnote.

 

Tad Davis

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[Christian Sánchez]

Ilka may be a diminutive of Ilona, though this is not a traditional Russian name, or of Ilaria, but this is a very old name.

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[Alex Kirstukas]

Yes, Ilka’s a fairly common name in the former Austria-Hungary (and other places; there was a mid-20th-century American actor and writer named Ilka Chase). 

When Verne was writing A Drama in Livonia, the Hungarian prima donna Ilka Palmay was becoming an international star. I wonder if Verne heard about her and didn’t realize she was so far from Latvia - or liked the name and didn’t care about the distance?

On Jun 26, 2026, at 5:04 AM, Christian Sánchez <chvsa...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Tad Davis]

Sounds like Ilka should remain Ilka with a footnote, but I'm still planning to change Jean to Ivan and Nicolef to Nikolaev. I hope that's not stepping too far over the line. At least I'm not giving them any new dialogue or things to do!

 

Tad

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[Tad Davis]

I meant to ask if I might have permission to quote these very helpful responses.

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[Christian Sánchez]

Yes, of course.

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[Jan Rychlik]

Dear Tad,

There are 3 Czech translations of Livonia and two of them somehow manipulate the names. 

Two keep Ilka, one changes it for Olga. Jean is either translated to Czech (which was quite normal at the time of 1st publication of the novel) or changed for Ivan (the name exists in Czech as well). 

Nikoleff is changed for Nikolaev in one translation or Nikolaevich (which is nonsense) in 1960s adaptation of the 1905 translation. Two translations change Yannoff for Ivanov. The most recent translation (1977) also changes Gospodin for Godin. 

Some of the translations also change Johausen for Johansen. It is possible that this name was changed by the editor as it is changed in Le Village aéreen in the same series.

Best

Jan

26. 6. 2026 v 16:01, Tad Davis <tad.dav...@gmail.com>:



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[Tad Davis]

Jan,

 

What a can of worms! Thanks for the additional examples.

 

A strictly conservative approach would leave all things as they are and footnote them. I think I'm steering a middle course—making a few changes and giving Verne's original in a footnote.

• Dimitri Nicolef = Dmitri Nikolaev
• Jean Nicolef = Ivan Nikolaev
• Ilka Nicolef = Ilka Nikolaeva
• Wladimir Yanof = Vladimir Yanov
• Major Werder = Major Verder 
• Etc

And our friend Gospodin? A web search indicates the word isn't a name but a respectful term of address like "Master" or "Sir." Did Verne just like the sound of it? What I've tried to do is make a change where the equivalent seemed clear and leave it alone when there was no obvious equivalent. So I would leave Gospodin (and Johausen, and Doctor Hamine) as is.

 

There's precedent for making modest changes in the names. Existing English translations of The Mysterious Island change Gédéon Spilett to Gideon Spilett.

 

Tad

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[Jan Rychlik]



Ted,

I couldn’t resist the temptation to check one of the two or three Russian translations of Livonia - only to be surprised to learn that not just Nicolef, but also Ilka and Yanoff and, astonishingly enough, Gospodin had remained unchanged. 

All the names are just (re)transcribed to cyrilic with regular sound shifts such as "-ov/-ev" instead of "-of(f)/-ef" and G instead of H (hence doctor Gamin). Thus L in the name Ilka is patalized, what eventually means the animal fisher/fisher cat in Russian, i.e. not suitable for a woman at all.

Kroff to the contrary is not transcribed Krov, but Krof probably because "krov" means roof in Russian (but perhaps this was the very idea of Verne; indeed the Russian pronunciation is probably the same. By the way: Poch is equaly good name for a cashier, but only when pronouced French.

There is only one and very small change in this Russian translation: Kerstorff becomes more German sounding Kersdorf.

Best

Jan

28. 6. 2026 v 12:33, Tad Davis <tad.dav...@gmail.com>:



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[Tad Davis]

Jan - thanks!

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[Jan Rychlik]

Tad,

exploring Livonie I am astonished at the fact that two of the Czech translators were unable to translate correctly the following paragraph in Chapter 3 which is figurative à la Verne, yet easy to understand:

Laissons couler l’eau de la Dwina!… s’écria le docteur. Les vieilles coutumes s’en iront par l’aval, et les idées nouvelles viendront par l’amont… Et, ce jour-là, mon brave Dimitri sera porté par elles!

German translation seems wrong as well. Polish translator rewrote the paragraph completely (as he/she did with most of the personal names), perhaps to supress its pro-Russian meaning.

Best

Jan

1. 7. 2026 v 20:21, Tad Davis <tad.dav...@gmail.com>:



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[Tad Davis]

Here's my take on that paragraph, and the one preceding it. The conversation is about whether they can convince Ilka's father, a widely respected Baltic Russian (a.k.a. a Livonian Slav), to run against the German faction in the next election.

 

“That would be more than my father could bear. He’s not a rich man,” replied the young woman. “And besides, doctor, as you well know, you can count heads till you’re blue in the face, but Riga is still more German than Russian!”

 

“Let the waters of the Dvina engulf the city!” exclaimed the doctor. “The old customs will be washed away, and new ideas will come pouring in. And when that happens, our brave Dmitri will be carried along by the flood!”

 

Tad

 

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Tad Davis
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[Jan Rychlik]

Bravo, Tad!

The flood is a harsher metaphor, but a revolutionary one, hence more plausible than original pro-Russian. Though it was not necessarily Verne’s rising to the bait of Russian propaganda, becauase some of the Baltic oponents of German dominance really viewed russification as positive opportunity.

Best

Jan

10. 7. 2026 v 22:35, Tad Davis <tad.dav...@gmail.com>:



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[Tad Davis]

Meanwhile, following some feedback, I reined in my extravagance a bit on Ilka's preceding dialogue. She now says (simpler and closer to the French): "And besides, doctor, as you well know, no matter how you add up the numbers, Riga is more German than Russian!"

 

Tad

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[William Butcher]

I rather liked the idiiomatic touch of 'blue in the face': it's what is lacking in so many translations...

Bill

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Subject: Re: [JVF] Another name

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[Tad Davis]

Well, there's fine-tuning and then there's micro-tuning. The real lesson here is, don't make changes without looking things up first. When I thought about it, I began to wonder if the expression "blue in the face" post-dated the novel, and while I’m trying to avoid being stuffy, I’m also trying to avoid being anachronistic. That’s why I changed it. But having looked into it further, it appears that saying you can “do something until you are blue in the face” just barely makes the cut, in the sense used here, for somebody speaking in 1876; so it could be used after all. 

 

(Apparently the expression started out as “black in the face” and sometimes “black and blue in the face.” The two earliest references in the OED where the phrase is used in this specific sense are from 1845 and 1864.)

 

But then there’s also the concern about an expression that may be perfectly appropriate for the period, but sounds too contemporary, thereby jarring some readers.

 

But nobody said this was easy.

 

Tad

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[Jan Rychlik]

Well, in the most recent Czech translation of Deux ans de vacances, from 1953, there is an idiomatic word for “bredouille” which might have been correct at that time, but later its general meaning switched radically and the original meaning was no more known but to hunters. Therefore only 5 or 10 years later, when the translator reviewed his work for new edition, he opted for a less idiomatic translation.

12. 7. 2026 v 5:01, Tad Davis <tad.dav...@gmail.com>:



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[William Butcher]

good thinking tad and jan. but we need to distinguish between idiomatic and contemporary. Remember we're not translating into late 19^th c. language  but into the modern language (while, I agree avoiding obvious anachronisms). I personally try to translate into 1960s English, which is convenient since that was when my language was formed

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