Part 2 Raphael Semmes and the Derivation of the name Prince Dakkar

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John Lamb

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Jul 17, 2025, 5:22:34 AMJul 17
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Once again, I must apologise, because after several attempts to post a reply on my laptop and by phone, it seems the only way to do so, is by opening a new thread. 

Thankyou William Butcher for sending a copy of your Jules Verne Biography. 

 Returning to the main thread, I would hope that members of the forum will see the genius of Jules Verne at work in the coded names of Arne Saknussemm, Prince Dakkar and how it fits into his love of cryptograms and ciphers. I particularly welcome comments from those who have written previously on Verne's use of ciphers, cryptograms, and the hidden messages in character names, ships names and so on and how it may or may not fit into their own findings.  

 

Hopefully the strength of my argument is in 'the sum of the parts' which so far in this particular thread includes giving reasoned explanation of Verne's names Saknussemm and Dakkar in light of the largely Birkenhead built Nautilus and the largely Birkenhead built CSS Alabama. 

This is also, of course, the context of Verne using Birkenhead's Bidston Lighthouse and Observatory as a literary template across three novels, Journey to the Centre of the Earth (1864), The Mysterious Island (1873) and The Floating Island (1895) detailed in The International Review of Science Fiction p116-127) (Lamb 2025). 

 The identification of possible Verne ciphers and its relationship to Birkenhead / Raphael Semmes / Alabama, is just one small part of my research. 

Verne sometimes comes out with phrases which just seem nonsensical, one example is in The Mysterious Island  where Neb says 'These animals are not Saint-Martins', I instantly looked up St Martins in the Fields church in Trafalgar Square (one of the most famous churches in Britain) and sure enough, amongst just three other notables, it is the burial place of Sir John Birkenhead. 

Verne's 'hit rate' with links to Birkenhead is just off the scale, it is definitely not a case of me slavishly putting totally unconnected coincidences together, in an attempt to make to make a coherent whole. 

 Another example of Verne's nonsensical pointing to a hidden meaning is found in 'A Floating City' (1870) as Fabian stirs into the paddle wheels of the Great Eastern after it has left Birkenhead. 

Once Fabian said to me, ‘this track is indeed magnificent. One would think that the waves were amusing themselves with tracing letters! Look at the l’s and the e’s. Am I deceived? No, they are indeed always the same letters.’ Fabian’s excited imagination saw in these eddyings that which it wished to see. But what could these letters signify?

Verne, again, asks a question, (similar to his question about Nemo's portraits in his cabin) so once again I will try to answer it.  

The  'l's' and the 'e's' refers to the last two letters of engineer John Scott Russell's name and his 'wave line' design for the Birkenhead financed  Great Eastern. The wave line line design for the Great Eastern, in turn influenced the design of the Nautilus. 

  In his 2017 article in Physics Today, the naval architect and historian Larrie Ferreiro acknowledges Sir John Scott Russell’s contribution to the design of both the Great Eastern and to Captain Nemo’s Nautilus. … 

one of Great Eastern’s passengers, Jules Verne, was so impressed with the ship’s wave line hull that it inspired a passage in his novel Twenty Thousand Leagues Under the Seas.  

  He describes his fictional submarine Nautilus as having “lines . . . sufficiently long and its run extensive enough for the displaced water to escape easily and to provide no obstacle to headway.”     

  Clippers, yachts, and the false promise of the wave line. 

L Larrie Ferreiro and Alexander Pollara. Physics Today (July 2017)   

This only part solves the code and I deal with it in full in article 19 on my website. 

Again, this represents an incredible amount of background engineering knowledge by Jules Verne and dovetails nicely into the recent writings of Quentin Scrabec. Where did he get all this up to date knowledge from? 

There is so much more to come, including the Semmes  links with Captain Blomsberry in Around the Moon as well as a thorough dissection of Mysterious Island location by location as being Birkenhead and Wirral, and finally referring back to the literally hundreds of links between Raphael Semmes's Memoirs of Service Afloat During the War Between the States (1869) and Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Seas (1869).  

 

Best John

Jean-Louis Trudel

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Jul 17, 2025, 11:52:05 AMJul 17
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Greetings,

The St-Martin line has nothing to do with any English church (I think
you keep overestimating Verne's knowledge of England) and much more to
do with translation issues. The original line seems to be:

« Mais, répondait Nab en riant, peut-être ces ours ne
consentiraient-ils pas, Pencroff, à te donner leur capote. Ce ne sont
point des Saint-Martin, ces bêtes-là! »

This should be in English something like:

--- But, Nab replied laughingly, maybe these bears would refuse,
Pencroff, to let you have their coat. These beasts are not like Saint
Martin!

This is an allusion to Saint Martin of Tours. He is famous for having
cut in half his cloak in order to clothe a beggar. Verne is engaging
in wordplay here, using the word "capote" to refer to the bear's pelt
and to St Martin's cloak.

Jean-Louis Trudel
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John Lamb

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Jul 17, 2025, 1:06:50 PMJul 17
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   Dear Jean-Louis, I do not underestimate Verne's knowledge of England at all, after all Verne himself stated.                                         'The town which I know best in England is Liverpool, and as I stayed there for some time with friends, I had a good opportunity of studying it, especially the docks and the Mersey.'                                                                  The 'docks' and the Mersey of course include Birkenhead and the Wirral Peninsula.                                                                  I am not  an expert on Verne, but I am an expert on  Birkenhead, the Wirral Peninsula and the CSS Alabama, and straight away,  I can see Verne used hundreds of links with the CSS Alabama to write 20,000 Leagues Under the Seas, and over 60 links with Birkenhead and the Wirral Peninsula to write Journey to the Centre of the Earth (1864), The Mysterious Island (1874,) and The Floating Island (1895).  Please reread my article in the International Review of Science Fiction where I choose just one Birkenhead landmark (Bidston Lighthouse) to illustrate how Verne uses it  as an inspiration across the three novels as Snaefells, Mt Franklin and the Observatory respectively.  I can very easily go through the 60 locations that Verne mapped on the Wirral Peninsula, probably making a note for each one, placed it on the floor and then rearranged them to form the plot line for Mysterious Island. I was well aware of the St Martins link with Tours and indirectly the Third Republic when I put forward the link. I believe Verne may well have used Saint Martins as its dual connection to Birkenhead probably amused him. It is Verne's use of Birkenhead across three novels that is Verne's main pattern of literary behaviour. I can understand your scepticism but as the great man said..'How many things have been denied one day, only to become realities the next'. Best John Lamb

Don Sample

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Jul 17, 2025, 1:57:51 PMJul 17
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I find the most relevant bit in the text you quoted from Verne to be “Fabian’s excited imagination saw in these eddyings that which it wished to see.”

You can find “coded messages” meaning pretty much anything if you start playing games with anagrams of people’s names 

On Jul 17, 2025, at 5:22 AM, John Lamb <cads...@gmail.com> wrote:

Once again, I must apologise, because after several attempts to post a reply on my laptop and by phone, it seems the only way to do so, is by opening a new thread. 
--

William Butcher

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Jul 17, 2025, 7:36:06 PMJul 17
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That's the problem: the number of possible anagrams is huge, so some scepticism is required. Marc Soriano saw sexuality everywhere in Verne's names, usually of a homosexual nature...


From: 'Don Sample' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2025 1:57 AM
To: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [JVF] Part 2 Raphael Semmes and the Derivation of the name Prince Dakkar

John Lamb

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Jul 17, 2025, 8:45:50 PMJul 17
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Agreed, I contextualise it regarding the CSS Alabama and Birkenhead , I believe I am having success, others may not and that is the beauty of a discussion forum, but you can never 100% prove it one way or another.  

 Regarding A Floating City (1870) and I hope you will agree, Verne's passage must have some sort of cryptic meaning as the Great Eastern leaves Birkenhead, otherwise it is both nonsensical and irrelevant.  Here it is again.
 
  One would think that the waves were amusing themselves with tracing letters! Look at the l’s and the e’s. Am I deceived? No, they are indeed always the same letters.’ Fabian’s excited imagination saw in these eddyings that which it wished to see. But what could these letters signify?

Fabian's question is not answered later in the novel, so the reasoning behind this passage is only known to Verne. But crucially he asks what could these letters signify?


The passage firstly mentions the rhythm of the waves against the Great Eastern, and secondly the 'l's and the 'e' s.

The link to John Scott Russell, designer of the Great Eastern's wave line hull, is I think therefore a valid one. The fact that other writers have said the Great Eastern's hull then influenced the design of the Nautilus is a bonus. 

Russell's wave line hull and his scientific discoveries revolutionised hull design in the Mid nineteenth century including the racing yacht America of America's Cup fame. Russell built the Great Eastern in conjunction with Brunel. 

hydrodynamics in the nineteenth century was dominated by John Scott Russell's wave-line theory. (Ferreiro 2016). 

The explanation would also fit Verne's  interest in the Great Eastern, cables, and his own interest in yachting.  

A small example of moving our understanding of Verne forward and when you think about it ... what other possible answer could it be?

Best John






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dsa...@me.com

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Jul 17, 2025, 10:29:55 PMJul 17
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Verne noticed that the looping patterns of eddies in the wake of a ship formed a lot of “l”s and “e”s. (And I expect that those were cursive “l”s.) And then he described a character making this observation and his imagination trying to read some deep significance into it.

Garmt de Vries-Uiterweerd

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Jul 18, 2025, 2:16:39 AMJul 18
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I read these letters as ELLE, fitting the plot of the novel and a rather Poeesque trick of the imagination in a tormented mind…

Garmt 

William Butcher

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Jul 18, 2025, 3:36:12 AMJul 18
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So did O Dumas

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John Lamb

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Jul 18, 2025, 4:07:49 AMJul 18
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My thoughts are more on the Industrial technological side related to Verne's fascination with the Great Eastern. One of Verne's heroes the cable entrepreneur  Cyrus Field was on board the Great Eastern as she left Birkenhead and the ship had been beached on the grid iron at New Ferry Birkenhead while it was converted from a cable layer back to a passenger ship by Lairds (with the delays Verne wrote about). Field gets a mention in Around The Moon (1869) in 'The Soundings of the Susquehanna'  chapter (XXII) along with references to Maury's ( the mentor of Raphael Semmes) telegraphic plateau. These are the subjects re a future post together with references to Raphael Semmes as the inspiration for Captain Blomsberry. Getting back to the Great Eastern, there is no reason why Verne did not merge both Industrial and romantic inspirations to create the passage. We will never know, we can only make assumptions. Incidentally the main Poe connection I found with Verne was the character of Jupiter shortened to Jup in Poe's The Gold Bug and it's repetition in Mysterious Island....the possible explanation being another subject of debate. Best John Lamb

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Alex Kirstukas

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Jul 18, 2025, 5:24:58 AMJul 18
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Hi friends,

Of course, on a narrative level Verne answers his own question in the very next chapter: Fabian sees Es and Ls because he's dreaming of his beloved Ellen Hodges. "Ellen ! Ce nom m’expliquait les lettres que Fabian avait cru voir hier dans le sillage du navire." (ch. 12)

In the manuscript, Verne also acknowledges the reading later rediscovered by Garmt and Olivier Dumas: "Si Fabian eût été français, j’aurais pu reconstituer ce mot fatal « Elle » …"  (MS f.34)

More generally, I have to add my voice to those urging caution when searching for hidden messages in Verne; when you're hunting through a corpus as huge and complex as a novelist's oeuvre, you can find enough raw data to make anything look plausible. A few decades back, Andrew Martin found a whole series of hidden messages to "prove" that Verne was an ardent Bonapartist who wished for a second coming of Napoleon I, when in fact Verne's correspondence makes clear that he was a monarchist who supported the Orleanist claim to the French throne. Even more implausibly, Michel Lamy found a whole series of messages to "prove" that Verne's literary goal was to hint at secret knowledge about the Rennes-le-Château conspiracy theory that inspired The Da Vinci Code.

As Don says, it gets even more tenuous when you start working with anagrams. Say I wanted to "prove" that John Lamb was hiding a secret message that he's pulling our legs and doesn't believe there's any connection between Semmes and Verne? Easy - I'd start by calling attention to his repeated evocation of the phrase "Gordon Bennett" to indicate disbelief; then I'd take his sentences about coincidences out of context, and argue that they point toward his "real" belief that all the connections he's written about are coincidences. I could even argue that in his discussion of The Mysterious Island, his casting Semmes as Jup the orangutan is a visual joke - he's deliberately pointing to how, as the phrase goes, he's "making a monkey out of" the reader.

But to make the argument bulletproof, I'd want to find a literal hidden message in that song title he's quoted. When Lamb emphasizes this title, is he "really" telling us that the Alabama's piratical raids have nothing to do with Verne - that he really thinks it's much ado about nothing?

DAAR KOM DIE ALIBAMA

Sure enough, shuffle the letters around and we get the perfect message:

I, LAMB, MAKE A RAID ADO

See what I mean? ;)

Cheers,

Alex


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Ron Miller

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Jul 18, 2025, 10:33:28 AMJul 18
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In my forthcoming novel, "Dakkar," it was a nickname given to the prince as child because of his constant noisy belching: "dakar" or "dakaar" meaning "belch" or "burp" in Hindi.

R



On Fri, 18 Jul, 2025 at 5:25 AM, Alex Kirstukas <alex.ki...@gmail.com> wrote:
 

John Lamb

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Jul 18, 2025, 10:36:06 AMJul 18
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Dear Alex, I can assure you that my intentions are entirely honourable based on the hundreds of links between the largely Birkenhead built Nautilus and largely Birkenhead built CSS Alabama, and Verne using Birkenhead and Wirral as a literary template across three novels as outlined in my article in the International Review of Science Fiction (Lamb 2025).  An article which no one here has yet commented upon. Very best wishes. John Lamb

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William Butcher

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Jul 18, 2025, 7:41:25 PMJul 18
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And raid ado can be read in English or French (ado in French meaning adolescent)

bill

From: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Alex Kirstukas <alex.ki...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2025 5:24 PM

William Butcher

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Jul 18, 2025, 7:50:52 PMJul 18
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Daniel Compere read Drakkar, or pirate ship. I prefer Thakkar, an authentic surname.

Jean Chesneaux wrote a couple of successful books using selective evidence showing Verne was socialist, anglophobe and anti-colonialist. And don't get me started on Marcel Moré!

Bill
From: 'Ron Miller' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Friday, July 18, 2025 10:33 PM

John Lamb

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Jul 19, 2025, 5:54:20 AMJul 19
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Dear Bill, one could argue that your 1978 statement that Nemo is based on Gustave Flourens is based on 'selective evidence' and has certainly been questioned by some. I respect your theory about Flourens but I do not agree with it. But I ask you to respect my theory about Semmes too, even though you may not agree with it. I have presented evidence that Nemo is based on the alter ego of Raphael Semmes, Captain of the CSS Alabama (The false Alabama that Verne himself compares Nemo and the Nautilus to). The Alabama was world famous in the 1860's.  I suggest we both produce a 1000 word summary of why I believe Semmes is Nemo and you believe Flourens is Nemo and run them up against each other. I do not think you can get much fairer than that. Best wishes John Lamb.


On Saturday, July 19, 2025, William Butcher <wbutch...@gmail.com> wrote:
Daniel Compere read Drakkar, or pirate ship. I prefer Thakkar, an authentic surname.

Jean Chesneaux wrote a couple of successful books using selective evidence showing Verne was socialist, anglophobe and anti-colonialist. And don't get me started on Marcel Moré!

Bill
From: 'Ron Miller' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-verne-forum@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, July 18, 2025 10:33 PM

Subject: Re: [JVF] Part 2 Raphael Semmes and the Derivation of the name Prince Dakkar

In my forthcoming novel, "Dakkar," it was a nickname given to the prince as child because of his constant noisy belching: "dakar" or "dakaar" meaning "belch" or "burp" in Hindi.

R



On Fri, 18 Jul, 2025 at 5:25 AM, Alex Kirstukas <alex.ki...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
So did O Dumas

From: 'Don Sample' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-verne-forum@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, July 18, 2025 1:57 AM
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William Butcher

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Jul 19, 2025, 6:07:10 AMJul 19
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Or you could just look at my recent edition of 20t in French (PUBP) to find my  current position on the question 

On Sat, 19 Jul 2025, 17:54 John Lamb, <cads...@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Bill, one could argue that your 1978 statement that Nemo is based on Gustave Flourens is based on 'selective evidence' and has certainly been questioned by some. I respect your theory about Flourens but I do not agree with it. But I ask you to respect my theory about Semmes too, even though you may not agree with it. I have presented evidence that Nemo is based on the alter ego of Raphael Semmes, Captain of the CSS Alabama (The false Alabama that Verne himself compares Nemo and the Nautilus to). The Alabama was world famous in the 1860's.  I suggest we both produce a 1000 word summary of why I believe Semmes is Nemo and you believe Flourens is Nemo and run them up against each other. I do not think you can get much fairer than that. Best wishes John Lamb.

On Saturday, July 19, 2025, William Butcher <wbutch...@gmail.com> wrote:
Daniel Compere read Drakkar, or pirate ship. I prefer Thakkar, an authentic surname.

Jean Chesneaux wrote a couple of successful books using selective evidence showing Verne was socialist, anglophobe and anti-colonialist. And don't get me started on Marcel Moré!

Bill
From: 'Ron Miller' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, July 18, 2025 10:33 PM

Subject: Re: [JVF] Part 2 Raphael Semmes and the Derivation of the name Prince Dakkar

In my forthcoming novel, "Dakkar," it was a nickname given to the prince as child because of his constant noisy belching: "dakar" or "dakaar" meaning "belch" or "burp" in Hindi.

R



On Fri, 18 Jul, 2025 at 5:25 AM, Alex Kirstukas <alex.ki...@gmail.com> wrote:
 
So did O Dumas

From: 'Don Sample' via Jules Verne Forum <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Friday, July 18, 2025 1:57 AM
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John Lamb

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Jul 19, 2025, 11:44:38 AMJul 19
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Dear Bill, that's great, only one change, I will probably need 1,500 words to condense all my links between Raphael Semmes (of Mobile Alabama)  and the mainly Birkenhead built CSS Alabama and Captain Nemo (Mobilis in Mobile) and the mainly Birkenhead built Nautilus. What I suggest is that I will write up my 1,500 words on how Raphael Semmes is Nemo's alter ego and submit it to you in saying a few weeks . You can in the meantime write up your 1,500 translated words on how Gustave Flourens is Nemo and submit it to me. I will then write 500 words on why Flourens is not Nemo  and you can do the same for Semmes. We can then post both cases on the forum. This would  evoke Verne both in the great challenges of Phileas Fogg (According to Verne A Journey around Round the world  was as controversial as the Alabama Claims) and Robur the Conqueror ... The Birkenhead motto being Ubi Fides Ibi Lux et Robur..where there is faith let there be light.  Please advise whether the word count and timescales are amenable to you. Best John

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William Butcher

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Jul 19, 2025, 7:22:20 PMJul 19
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John,

Alternatively, why not send Birkenhead, the centre of the universe (in Verne's mind) to OUP or Gallimard? they're always on the lookout for innovative well-argued, cogent ideas, and will, I'm sure, give your idea the treatment it deserves.

Bill


From: jules-ve...@googlegroups.com <jules-ve...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of John Lamb <cads...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2025 11:44 PM

John Lamb

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Jul 19, 2025, 7:54:06 PMJul 19
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Dear Bill, I prefer to keep it simple, your well argued cogent ideas about Flourens against my well argued cogent ideas about Semmes. This after all is a discussion forum rather than a publishing house. Best wishes John

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