Proposal: Cloud Native Special Interest Group
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Carlos Sanchez
Jul 4, 2018, 12:16:26 PM7/4/18
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Hi there,
I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...
I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.
Thanks
Tracy Miranda
Jul 5, 2018, 5:42:39 AM7/5/18
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+1. Great and much needed initiative.
I confirm I will be participating.
Regards,
Tracy
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nicolas de loof
Jul 5, 2018, 8:22:20 AM7/5/18
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+1 as well. Confirm I'd like to be in and contribute, at least for Configuration-as-Code support, but not limited to this scope as long as I can be helpful.
Le jeu. 5 juil. 2018 à 11:42, Tracy Miranda <tmir...@cloudbees.com> a écrit :
+1. Great and much needed initiative.I confirm I will be participating.Regards,Tracy
On Wed, Jul 4, 2018 at 5:16 PM, Carlos Sanchez <car...@apache.org> wrote:
Hi there,
I have submitted a JEP draft for a SIG around "Cloud Native", to foster collaboration around improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.Stories covered here include cloud artifact storage, external logging, external database for configuration,...I have had talks with some cloud providers and there is a lot of interest on making Jenkins run more integrated in cloud environments, so looking forward to have a common group where we can collaborate.Thanks
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Carlos Sanchez
Jul 5, 2018, 9:16:30 AM7/5/18
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Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion
== Abstract
We see more and more users running Jenkins in the Cloud and containerized environments, and that number is not going down.
However, we often see Jenkins running as a "legacy" app that does not make use of the advantages provided by a cloud environment.
== Specification
The Cloud Native group of contributors and collaborators focuses on improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
=== Target Audience
The improvements are targeted at both existing and new Jenkins users that use, or would prefer to use, Jenkins deployed in one of the cloud providers, or using cloud services for their operation.
=== Meetings
There will be regular SiG meetings scheduled.
Initially the meetings will be conducted once per month, then they may be adapted according to the activity.
Meetings will be conducted and recorded via Jenkins Hangouts-on-Air.
=== Chairs
* Carlos Sanchez
=== Areas for Improvement
There are several clear areas open for improvement, which are summarized here and will be detailed in future documents.
A mayor pain point is the usage of local disk as all-purpose storage, which causes issues running on containerized or distributed environments, requiring highly performant filesystems, and all the configuration pain like initial sizing and resizing with downtime.
We believe that by using cloud provided services the overall usability, performance and scalability can be improved while enabling new demanded functionality.
By converting Jenkins to a "stateless" application long awaited features such as high availability and replication would help to operate Jenkins more efficiently, with zero downtime and reducing risk in upgrade operations by using canary or rolling deployments.
==== Artifact Storage
The current approach of storing artifacts in the filesystem prevents users from taking advantage of cloud provided blob stores (ie. AWS S3), which provide a lot more features for this use case.
Sizing becomes a problem as disk usage needs to be accounted for all the future artifacts stored or forces the need for resizing, which causes downtime.
Typical use cases such as versioning, expiration or pay per use are impossible to implement today.
While currently it is possible to use specific plugins to store artifacts in blob stores such as the https://plugins.jenkins.io/s3[S3 plugin],
this forces explicit configuration in jobs and makes configuration harder.
==== Log Storage
Logs disk usage causes the same issues previously mentioned for artifacts.
Plus a external focused log storage such as https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/logs/WhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html[AWS CloudWatch Logs] allows demanded features as centralized log management, log retention policies, advanced querying, ...
There are already options to externally ship the logs to a backend, or plugins that would do that like the https://github.com/jenkinsci/aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin[aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin], but there is no integrated way to both send and display logs from external log storage.
==== Configuration Storage
While xml files do not typically take a big amount of disk space, they make it really hard to query information about the system.
This configuration is better suited in a cloud provided database in combination with https://github.com/jenkinsci/configuration-as-code-plugin Configuration as Code
==== Replication
If all the data currently stored in the filesystem is moved to external storage a replicated Jenkins service becomes possible, and the next steps are true High Availability, rolling or canary upgrades and zero downtime.
== Motivation
The current default approach of storing everything into the filesystem is the main reason why Jenkins does not fit the "Cloud Native" model, with features like HA, zero downtime, or pay per use.
While there are plenty of plugins that implement parts of this vision, this becomes cumbersome to configure and a usability nightmare for users, as the https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300 [Essentials JEP] has pointed out.
Going towards a model where cloud services are consumed where it makes sense, the overall complexity on operating Jenkins in a cloud or containerized environment is greatly reduced.
Other related projects include https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/400 [Jenkins X] which would greatly benefit from a Cloud Native Jenkins inside Kubernetes.
== Reasoning
Later JEPs in this series will will address design and implementation.
This document just lays down the ideas behind a "Cloud Native" Jenkins to build consensus around them.
== Backwards Compatibility
Backwards compatibility of the specific implementations will be discussed in future documents.
It is likely that new versions of core will be needed to enable such features, but nothing proposed as part of this goal would prevent the usage of Jenkins in non cloud environments.
== Infrastructure Requirements
Although there are no infrastructure requirements to discuss in this document, additional documents which propose new cloud functionality will likely request the ability to test that functionality in the target cloud environments.
It is not expected that the Jenkins project would provide all resources needed for such environmental tests.
== Abstract
We see more and more users running Jenkins in the Cloud and containerized environments, and that number is not going down.
However, we often see Jenkins running as a "legacy" app that does not make use of the advantages provided by a cloud environment.
== Specification
The Cloud Native group of contributors and collaborators focuses on improving Jenkins to run on Cloud environments as a "Cloud Native" application.
=== Target Audience
The improvements are targeted at both existing and new Jenkins users that use, or would prefer to use, Jenkins deployed in one of the cloud providers, or using cloud services for their operation.
=== Meetings
There will be regular SiG meetings scheduled.
Initially the meetings will be conducted once per month, then they may be adapted according to the activity.
Meetings will be conducted and recorded via Jenkins Hangouts-on-Air.
=== Chairs
* Carlos Sanchez
=== Areas for Improvement
There are several clear areas open for improvement, which are summarized here and will be detailed in future documents.
A mayor pain point is the usage of local disk as all-purpose storage, which causes issues running on containerized or distributed environments, requiring highly performant filesystems, and all the configuration pain like initial sizing and resizing with downtime.
We believe that by using cloud provided services the overall usability, performance and scalability can be improved while enabling new demanded functionality.
By converting Jenkins to a "stateless" application long awaited features such as high availability and replication would help to operate Jenkins more efficiently, with zero downtime and reducing risk in upgrade operations by using canary or rolling deployments.
==== Artifact Storage
The current approach of storing artifacts in the filesystem prevents users from taking advantage of cloud provided blob stores (ie. AWS S3), which provide a lot more features for this use case.
Sizing becomes a problem as disk usage needs to be accounted for all the future artifacts stored or forces the need for resizing, which causes downtime.
Typical use cases such as versioning, expiration or pay per use are impossible to implement today.
While currently it is possible to use specific plugins to store artifacts in blob stores such as the https://plugins.jenkins.io/s3[S3 plugin],
this forces explicit configuration in jobs and makes configuration harder.
==== Log Storage
Logs disk usage causes the same issues previously mentioned for artifacts.
Plus a external focused log storage such as https://docs.aws.amazon.com/AmazonCloudWatch/latest/logs/WhatIsCloudWatchLogs.html[AWS CloudWatch Logs] allows demanded features as centralized log management, log retention policies, advanced querying, ...
There are already options to externally ship the logs to a backend, or plugins that would do that like the https://github.com/jenkinsci/aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin[aws-cloudwatch-logs-publisher-plugin], but there is no integrated way to both send and display logs from external log storage.
==== Configuration Storage
While xml files do not typically take a big amount of disk space, they make it really hard to query information about the system.
This configuration is better suited in a cloud provided database in combination with https://github.com/jenkinsci/configuration-as-code-plugin Configuration as Code
==== Replication
If all the data currently stored in the filesystem is moved to external storage a replicated Jenkins service becomes possible, and the next steps are true High Availability, rolling or canary upgrades and zero downtime.
== Motivation
The current default approach of storing everything into the filesystem is the main reason why Jenkins does not fit the "Cloud Native" model, with features like HA, zero downtime, or pay per use.
While there are plenty of plugins that implement parts of this vision, this becomes cumbersome to configure and a usability nightmare for users, as the https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/300 [Essentials JEP] has pointed out.
Going towards a model where cloud services are consumed where it makes sense, the overall complexity on operating Jenkins in a cloud or containerized environment is greatly reduced.
Other related projects include https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/tree/master/jep/400 [Jenkins X] which would greatly benefit from a Cloud Native Jenkins inside Kubernetes.
== Reasoning
Later JEPs in this series will will address design and implementation.
This document just lays down the ideas behind a "Cloud Native" Jenkins to build consensus around them.
== Backwards Compatibility
Backwards compatibility of the specific implementations will be discussed in future documents.
It is likely that new versions of core will be needed to enable such features, but nothing proposed as part of this goal would prevent the usage of Jenkins in non cloud environments.
== Infrastructure Requirements
Although there are no infrastructure requirements to discuss in this document, additional documents which propose new cloud functionality will likely request the ability to test that functionality in the target cloud environments.
It is not expected that the Jenkins project would provide all resources needed for such environmental tests.
Olblak
Jul 6, 2018, 4:40:01 AM7/6/18
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Samuel Van Oort
Jul 6, 2018, 8:17:27 AM7/6/18
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I would also be interested in participating -- I'm a reviewer for some of the related work and some of the things I'm doing will overlap with this space.
Oleg Nenashev
Jul 6, 2018, 12:32:36 PM7/6/18
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I'm in
linuxsuren
Jul 7, 2018, 10:01:03 PM7/7/18
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Leonardo Rossetti
Jul 9, 2018, 9:36:11 AM7/9/18
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I would like to join/contribute as well.
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Baptiste Mathus
Jul 9, 2018, 9:58:45 AM7/9/18
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+1. Having worked on this quite recently, I'm interested to participate :).
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Vic Iglesias
Jul 9, 2018, 4:41:40 PM7/9/18
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+1 Looking forward to engaging in this SIG.
On Monday, July 9, 2018 at 6:58:45 AM UTC-7, Baptiste Mathus wrote:
+1. Having worked on this quite recently, I'm interested to participate :).
Le lun. 9 juil. 2018 à 15:36, Leonardo Rossetti <m...@lrossetti.com> a écrit :
I would like to join/contribute as well.
2018-07-07 22:58 GMT-03:00 linuxsuren <linux...@gmail.com>:
Jesse Glick
Jul 9, 2018, 5:54:32 PM7/9/18
to Jenkins Dev
On Thu, Jul 5, 2018 at 9:16 AM Carlos Sanchez <car...@apache.org> wrote:
> Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion
Ideally we would have a “vision JEP”¹ which lays out the general
> Given that JEP is not needed I'll add here the content for discussion
requirements which particular topics like JEP-202 can refer to. This
is what Essentials did with JEP-300, and Jenkins-X with JEP-400.
Ideally we would have our own 5xx series or something, but then
JEP-202 would better be renamed JEP-501.
I agree we do not need JEPs for SIGs, but this is not just a SIG like
others proposed (e.g., Jenkins on special platforms)—it is an actual
proposed series of changes, each of which would be a regular JEP.
¹JEP-300 and JEP-400 are listed as “Standards” but this fails to
capture the distinction from regular feature JEPs. I suggest that
https://github.com/jenkinsci/jep/blob/master/jep/1/README.adoc#jep-types
be amended with a new category.
martinda
Jul 9, 2018, 6:53:07 PM7/9/18
to Jenkins Developers
Hello Carlos,
Interesting initiative. Did you know that the External Workspace Manager Plugin was designed with Cloud Storage in mind? Perhaps that might be useful.
I am interested in knowing where this SIG is headed, but I can make no commitment.
Martin
Evan Brown
Jul 11, 2018, 9:27:32 AM7/11/18
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+1 SIGn me up!
Liam Newman
Jul 12, 2018, 1:48:15 PM7/12/18
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I'm creating the SIG now, following the steps JEP-4 with the PR from Oleg.
sig-id: cloud-native
Jesse,
Your suggestion re JEP-1 is interesting and accurately points out a rough edge in the current JEP process.
I think this particular structure has come out of the size of some of these JEPs.
Please start a thread on here and maybe file a PR with suggested changes.
Oleg Nenashev
Jul 12, 2018, 1:50:09 PM7/12/18
to JenkinsCI Developers
Hi Liam,
I have draft for the SIG so I can submit it to save your time.
BR, Oleg
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Liam Newman
Jul 12, 2018, 2:31:12 PM7/12/18
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Google Group: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/jenkins-cloud-native-sig
Oleg will submit a PR shortly with the sig page.
Oleg Nenashev
Jul 12, 2018, 2:59:21 PM7/12/18
to JenkinsCI Developers
Pull request is here: https://github.com/jenkins-infra/jenkins.io/pull/1646
@Carlos, do you want to have a GitHub Team created? If yes, we will need GitHub IDs of all participants.
In such case please create an INFRA ticket and assign it to me.
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Daniel Beck
Jul 12, 2018, 5:15:54 PM7/12/18
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> On 12. Jul 2018, at 20:59, Oleg Nenashev <o.v.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> @Carlos, do you want to have a GitHub Team created? If yes, we will need GitHub IDs of all participants.
> In such case please create an INFRA ticket and assign it to me.
>
https://github.com/orgs/jenkinsci/teams/cloud-native-sig
Carlos is a team maintainer, so can add and remove people.
Carlos Sanchez
Jul 13, 2018, 3:40:31 AM7/13/18
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Thanks all!
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Oleg Nenashev
Jul 13, 2018, 5:29:43 AM7/13/18
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OK, SIG and all its resources are live: https://jenkins.io/sigs/cloud-native/
The next step is to schedule some meetings :)
In 2016 we were working on the External Build Log storage, and I would like to recover the discussion.
Best regards,
Oleg
On Fri, Jul 13, 2018 at 10:40 AM, Carlos Sanchez <car...@apache.org> wrote:
Thanks all!
On Thu, Jul 12, 2018 at 11:16 PM Daniel Beck <m...@beckweb.net> wrote:
> On 12. Jul 2018, at 20:59, Oleg Nenashev <o.v.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> @Carlos, do you want to have a GitHub Team created? If yes, we will need GitHub IDs of all participants.
> In such case please create an INFRA ticket and assign it to me.
>
Already done for https://issues.jenkins-ci.org/browse/INFRA-1706:
https://github.com/orgs/jenkinsci/teams/cloud-native-sig
Carlos is a team maintainer, so can add and remove people.
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Tracy Miranda
Jul 16, 2018, 4:01:31 PM7/16/18
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Hi all,
Thanks all for getting all the parts in place.
The main page is here: https://jenkins.io/sigs/cloud-native/
Thanks all to those for your public show of support so far - the response has been great.
To build momentum I would like to add all the folks on this thread as participating members on that page (just names, no emails)
If you would prefer not to be included please let me know on or off list.
We will also be listing participating organizations so if you would like your organization to be listed please let me know (this can be in addition or instead of individual's names).
Regards,
Tracy
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Ewelina Wilkosz
Jul 18, 2018, 2:48:19 AM7/18/18
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can I still join? :)
Thanks all!
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Oleg Nenashev
Jul 18, 2018, 3:49:39 AM7/18/18
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Sure. Just join the mailing list :)
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