Proposal: Deprecating/Removing OS X packaging for Jenkins
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Oleg Nenashev
Nov 19, 2019, 11:02:16 AM11/19/19
to JenkinsCI Developers, Jenkins Platform SIG
Hi all,
As you probably know, there is ongoing work on automating Jenkins Core releases within the Jenkins infrastructure. Apart from Linux and Windows distributions, there is also a OS X installer which is being produced for each Weekly and LTS release in the current release environment (download link). There are also a homebrew formula being maintained by the HomeBrew community, these packages are even listed in our installation guide.
In the new environment we use MS Azure, and there is no good way to produce OS X builds there, because they require MacOS. We could use an external service for that, but it would add additional point of failure and implementation/maintenance overhead. Since the HomeBrew is a defacto standard in MacOS, I do not think it worth the effort. What f we just stop shipping them?
Implementation plan:
- Deprecate in the next weekly releases
- It requires a changelog entry in one of the next weekly releases + LTS upgrade guideline entry + likely a deprecation blogpost
- Use HomeBrew as a recommended source of MacOS installers, mark it as a 3rd-party installer like we do for other downloads
- Remove MacOS native packaging from Jenkins release Pipelines once we fully switch to automated releases
Best regards,
Oleg
Mark Waite
Nov 19, 2019, 12:26:27 PM11/19/19
to Oleg Nenashev, JenkinsCI Developers, Jenkins Platform SIG
This sounds like the right plan to me. +1
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Thanks!
Mark Waite
Gavin Mogan
Nov 19, 2019, 12:58:29 PM11/19/19
to jenkin...@googlegroups.com, Oleg Nenashev, Jenkins Platform SIG
Are there any download stats? If its barely used (and i suspect thats true), then +1
Otherwise, I'm sure one of the cloud mac providers would be up for donating a tiny bit of infra to build the package in exchange for advertising to jenkins users.
Gavin
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Oliver Gondža
Nov 19, 2019, 1:29:27 PM11/19/19
to jenkin...@googlegroups.com
Not being a Mac OS user myself, I cannot argue how useful this is for
its user-base. But provided most of the the Mac users can or do use
homebrew, I say go for it!
On 19/11/2019 18.26, Mark Waite wrote:
> This sounds like the right plan to me. +1
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 9:02 AM Oleg Nenashev <o.v.ne...@gmail.com
> <mailto:o.v.ne...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> As you probably know, there is ongoing work on automating Jenkins
> Core releases within the Jenkins infrastructure. Apart from Linux
> and Windows distributions, there is also a OS X installer which is
> being produced for each Weekly and LTS release in the current
> release environment (download link
> <https://jenkins.io/download/thank-you-downloading-osx-installer-stable/>).
> o It requires a changelog entry in one of the next weekly
> * Remove MacOS native packaging from Jenkins release Pipelines
>
>
>
> --
> Thanks!
> Mark Waite
> <mailto:jenkinsci-de...@googlegroups.com>.
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-dev/CAO49JtFZt%3DOq3NCSD%2BwQGeKH6QkBBGaVBHZCwbFxvDTV751P_A%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
--
oliver
its user-base. But provided most of the the Mac users can or do use
homebrew, I say go for it!
On 19/11/2019 18.26, Mark Waite wrote:
> This sounds like the right plan to me. +1
>
> On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 9:02 AM Oleg Nenashev <o.v.ne...@gmail.com
> <mailto:o.v.ne...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> As you probably know, there is ongoing work on automating Jenkins
> Core releases within the Jenkins infrastructure. Apart from Linux
> and Windows distributions, there is also a OS X installer which is
> being produced for each Weekly and LTS release in the current
> release environment (download link
> There are also a homebrew formula
> <https://formulae.brew.sh/formula/jenkins> being maintained by the
> HomeBrew community, these packages are even listed in our
> installation guide <https://jenkins.io/doc/book/installing/#macos>.
>
> In the new environment we use MS Azure, and there is no good way to
> produce OS X builds there, because they require MacOS. We could use
> an external service for that, but it would add additional point of
> failure and implementation/maintenance overhead. Since the HomeBrew
> is a defacto standard in MacOS, I do not think it worth the effort.
> What f we just stop shipping them?
>
> Implementation plan:
>
> * Deprecate in the next weekly releases
> In the new environment we use MS Azure, and there is no good way to
> produce OS X builds there, because they require MacOS. We could use
> an external service for that, but it would add additional point of
> failure and implementation/maintenance overhead. Since the HomeBrew
> is a defacto standard in MacOS, I do not think it worth the effort.
> What f we just stop shipping them?
>
> Implementation plan:
>
> o It requires a changelog entry in one of the next weekly
> releases + LTS upgrade guideline entry + likely a
> deprecation blogpost
> * Use HomeBrew as a recommended source of MacOS installers, mark
> deprecation blogpost
> it as a 3rd-party installer like we do for other downloads
> *
> * Remove MacOS native packaging from Jenkins release Pipelines
> once we fully switch to automated releases
>
> WDYT?
>
> Best regards,
> Oleg
>
>
>
> --
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> Groups "Jenkins Platform SIG" group.
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> <mailto:jenkins-platform...@googlegroups.com>.
>
> WDYT?
>
> Best regards,
> Oleg
>
>
>
> --
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>
>
>
> --
> Thanks!
> Mark Waite
>
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oliver
Daniel Beck
Nov 19, 2019, 1:44:08 PM11/19/19
to jenkin...@googlegroups.com, Jenkins Platform SIG
On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 5:02 PM Oleg Nenashev <o.v.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:
There are also a homebrew formula being maintained by the HomeBrew community, these packages are even listed in our installation guide.
I'm confused that this advertises building and running Jenkins from master sources, which probably should never be done in any sort of prod environment. OTOH, it's no worse than OpenBSD offering a package of Jenkins 2.122…
A potential blocker for "real" use on Mac OS X could be that it seems to limit the listening interface to localhost, i.e. it doesn't allow access from other systems.
That said, other than "nothing" I have no better alternative. But I'm not sure that advertising the Homebrew package makes much sense either.
FWIW it could be possible to rather easily detect a Jenkins instance installed via the Mac package. If so, perhaps an admin monitor could be added to core to show a notice?
Oleg Nenashev
Nov 19, 2019, 1:57:44 PM11/19/19
to Daniel Beck, JenkinsCI Developers, Jenkins Platform SIG
FWIW it could be possible to rather easily detect a Jenkins instance installed via the Mac package. If so, perhaps an admin monitor could be added to core to show a notice?
We could check the filesystem to detect control files, but it does not look to be that reliable. Better than nothing, but not sure the effort would be justified until we have some usage stats or recent download stats.
I'm confused that this advertises building and running Jenkins from master sources, which probably should never be done in any sort of prod environment. OTOH, it's no worse than OpenBSD offering a package of Jenkins 2.122…
Link?
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Daniel Beck
Nov 19, 2019, 3:40:13 PM11/19/19
to Oleg Nenashev, JenkinsCI Developers, Jenkins Platform SIG
On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 7:57 PM Oleg Nenashev <o.v.ne...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm confused that this advertises building and running Jenkins from master sources, which probably should never be done in any sort of prod environment. OTOH, it's no worse than OpenBSD offering a package of Jenkins 2.122…Link?
Yours. "Stable" (a term we generally use for LTS, but could be a Homebrew convention) is the weekly release, "HEAD" is building from source:
But if the analytics are correct, one in 10k seems to choose this, so perhaps not that big of a deal…
R. Tyler Croy
Nov 19, 2019, 4:54:51 PM11/19/19
to jenkin...@googlegroups.com, Jenkins Platform SIG
(replies inline)
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
> As you probably know, there is ongoing work on automating Jenkins Core releases
> within the Jenkins infrastructure. Apart from Linux and Windows distributions,
> there is also a OS X installer which is being produced for each Weekly and LTS
> release in the current release environment ([1]download link). There are also a
> [2]homebrew formula being maintained by the HomeBrew community, these packages
> are even listed in our [3]installation guide.
I'm strongly in favor of removing the macOS packaging. From a time management
and benefit standpoint, I don't think its worth any time to support it.
--
GitHub: https://github.com/rtyler
GPG Key ID: 0F2298A980EE31ACCA0A7825E5C92681BEF6CEA2
On Tue, 19 Nov 2019, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
> As you probably know, there is ongoing work on automating Jenkins Core releases
> within the Jenkins infrastructure. Apart from Linux and Windows distributions,
> there is also a OS X installer which is being produced for each Weekly and LTS
> [2]homebrew formula being maintained by the HomeBrew community, these packages
> are even listed in our [3]installation guide.
I'm strongly in favor of removing the macOS packaging. From a time management
and benefit standpoint, I don't think its worth any time to support it.
--
GitHub: https://github.com/rtyler
GPG Key ID: 0F2298A980EE31ACCA0A7825E5C92681BEF6CEA2
Oleg Nenashev
Nov 19, 2019, 5:42:04 PM11/19/19
to Jenkins Developers
Added the topic to the tomorrow's governance meeting just to have more discussion and to sign it off
Rick
Nov 19, 2019, 7:39:53 PM11/19/19
to Developers Jenkins
Remove MacOS package, plus from me. A native package is a pretty heavy way.
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YanJun Shi
Nov 19, 2019, 8:49:38 PM11/19/19
to jenkin...@googlegroups.com
+1 from me. I think almost all used MacOS people is very simple uses the 'Generic Java package'. It's much more convenient than Mac OS package
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Shi Yanjun(yJunS)
Richard Bywater
Nov 19, 2019, 9:09:39 PM11/19/19
to jenkin...@googlegroups.com
> I'm confused that this advertises building and running Jenkins from master sources, which probably should never be done in any sort of prod environment.
Not sure where it says that? Homebrew *can* build and run from master sources if the `--HEAD` option is specified but otherwise the default just downloads the "latest" version (as specified in the formula) of `jenkins.war` from the Jenkins mirrors.
Also, as far as I can tell, the default for Homebrew runs of Jenkins is to listen on all interfaces.
So basically +1 for removing package and just sticking with Homebrew for the majority of OSX users.
Richard.
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Olblak
Nov 20, 2019, 3:09:13 AM11/20/19
to Jenkins Developers ML
I am happy to see that we all agree on this. \o/
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Oleg Nenashev
Nov 20, 2019, 3:50:06 PM11/20/19
to Jenkins Developers
Package deprecation was approved at the Governance meeting. I will go ahead and submit a PR with changes
On Wednesday, November 20, 2019 at 9:09:13 AM UTC+1, Olblak wrote:
I am happy to see that we all agree on this. \o/On Wed, Nov 20, 2019, at 3:09 AM, Richard Bywater wrote:
> I'm confused that this advertises building and running Jenkins from master sources, which probably should never be done in any sort of prod environment.Not sure where it says that? Homebrew *can* build and run from master sources if the `--HEAD` option is specified but otherwise the default just downloads the "latest" version (as specified in the formula) of `jenkins.war` from the Jenkins mirrors.Also, as far as I can tell, the default for Homebrew runs of Jenkins is to listen on all interfaces.So basically +1 for removing package and just sticking with Homebrew for the majority of OSX users.Richard.
On Wed, 20 Nov 2019 at 07:44, Daniel Beck <db...@cloudbees.com> wrote:
On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 5:02 PM Oleg Nenashev <o.v.n...@gmail.com> wrote:There are also a homebrew formula being maintained by the HomeBrew community, these packages are even listed in our installation guide.I'm confused that this advertises building and running Jenkins from master sources, which probably should never be done in any sort of prod environment. OTOH, it's no worse than OpenBSD offering a package of Jenkins 2.122…A potential blocker for "real" use on Mac OS X could be that it seems to limit the listening interface to localhost, i.e. it doesn't allow access from other systems.That said, other than "nothing" I have no better alternative. But I'm not sure that advertising the Homebrew package makes much sense either.FWIW it could be possible to rather easily detect a Jenkins instance installed via the Mac package. If so, perhaps an admin monitor could be added to core to show a notice?
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Oleg Nenashev
Nov 20, 2019, 7:13:21 PM11/20/19
to Jenkins Developers
Hi all,
Documentation updates are ready for review:
- Documentation patch: https://github.com/jenkins-infra/jenkins.io/pull/2666
- Deprecation announcement blogpost: https://github.com/jenkins-infra/jenkins.io/pull/2667
Thanks a lot to everyone for feedback and reviews.
Oleg Nenashev
Nov 25, 2019, 3:54:42 PM11/25/19
to Jenkins Developers
Thanks to everybody who helped with reviews!
The blogpost is now live. macOS packaging is now officially deprecated in 2,206+ and 2.204.1+
Best regards,
Oleg
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