Re: JAMS in meetup account disappearing

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Alyssa Tong

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Jan 10, 2020, 3:07:07 PM1/10/20
to Tracy Miranda, Jenkins Dev, Jenkins Area Meetup Coordination
+Jenkins Dev to the communication.

Hi All,

A brief update on this matter. We are continuing to work on this - we are are working with meetup.com and CDF to re-instate the deleted JAMs and will provide follow up communications with the affected JAMs accordingly.

With the transition of JAMs to CDF, we are also looking to make changes to the JAM process which will be discussed at the next governance meeting. 

BR,
alyssa


On Mon, Jan 6, 2020 at 12:02 PM Tracy Miranda <tmir...@cloudbees.com> wrote:
Hi all,

We had folks asking about some Jenkins Area Meetups that seem to have been deleted. 

A few (15) meetups were planned for removal after having been non active for a while and with no response after organizers were contacted (This is part of our now regular and ongoing maintenance of meetup groups that CD.Foundation will do). Something seems to have gone wrong and many more meetups were deleted by our account rep. CDF/Meetup are working on restoring the meetups so please bear with us. 

The meetups that are planned for removal (they have been inactive for >500 days) are:
New York JAM 
Chennai JAM
Chicago JAM
Cologne JAM
Jenkins Oslo
Jenkins Bangalore
Milano Jenkins Area Meetup
Madrid Jenkins Area Meetup
Belarus Jenkins Meetup
Atlanta USA CI/CD CDF Meetup
Melbourne JAM
Boulder JAM
Hamburg JAM
Seville JAM
Budapest JAM

If there is one on the list you think should not be there or perhaps you would like to salvage and take ownership of it and run a meetup in the next 3 months, please let me know as soon as you can. 

Regards,
Tracy

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Oleg Nenashev

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Jan 14, 2020, 8:59:15 AM1/14/20
to Jenkins Developers
Thanks a lot for the notice Alyssa!

If my message is too long, TL;DR: the meetups will be restored, but it is time to clean up the inactive meetups. There is a proposal below

Some updates there:
  • As communicated by Tracy, the root cause is that meetup.com support removed more meetups than it was requested by CDF.
  • Last week we had a meeting with CDF where we discussed the issue. Participants: Alyssa Tong (Jenkins Event Officer), Jacqueline Salinas (Director of Ecosystem, CDF), Tracy Miranda and me
  • At this meeting we agreed that:
    • Removed meetups meetups will be restored. It will take a while since it is a lengthy manual process by meetup.com support 
    • CDF will grant us an additional grace 3-month grace period to try restoring inactive meetups in the Jenkins community (and/or to convert them to CI/CD meetups). Heads-up about cleaning up inactive meetups was sent out on Oct 26 to meetup organizers, so we will need to reimplement the process and do additional communications
    • If meetups are not restored, CDF will use the "step down" process instead of deleting the meetups. It will give the local communities an additional chance to restore the meetups
Just to explain the reasons of the Jenkins Area Meetups cleanup:
  • Running CI/CD Pro Meetup.com account costs 12k USD per quarter. The majority of these costs used to go to 106 Jenkins Area Meetups 
  • CDF has a limited budget for Outreach programs and meetups. They are happy to sponsor active meetups, but in the case of Jenkins we accumulated a number of inactive ones 
  • Meanwhile, more than 60% of the meetups are dormant. Inactive meetups cost the same amount of money as active ones
    • 27 JAMs groups have NEVER had a meetup on meetup.com
    • 40 other JAMs did not have any events organized in 2019
  • Dormant JAMs prevent CDF from...
    • Sponsoring swag/food/venue for meetups and other events
    • Onboarding new CI/CD and Jenkins meetups in active local communities
    • Organizing other events and running outreach programs
So you may see there is a good reason to cleanup meetups which are really inactive. Some of us might be mentally attached to these meetups (e.g. I was a co-org in several removed meetups), but IMO we need to face the reality and adjust our meetup program. I would suggest the following process:
  1. Wait till meetups are restored
  2. Do a best effort attempt to revive the meetups
    • Communicate the incoming deprecation/cleanup of meetups AGAIN to meetup organizers and all meetup members
    • For meetups that never happened
      • CDF steps down as an organizer immediately after the meetup recovery. Current meetup leaders can take it over. If it does not happen, all meetup members will have 2 weeks to react and take over the meetups 
      • If reactivated, meetups can rejoin again by following the process defined by CDF
    • For meetups with at least one event in the past
      • 3-month grace period is applied
      • During this period we will try to contact meetup organizers and members through community channels and get the meetups scheduled
      • If there are no meetups happen/get announced, CDF steps down as an organizer. Current meetup leaders can take it over or step down as leaders
      • If reactivated, meetups can rejoin again by following the process defined by CDF
  3. Simplify the meetup process
    • CDF takes over the most of the operations responsibilities (see the JAM pull request from Alyssa)
    • We could simplify the meetup process and bound it to the Advocacy&Outreach SIG to keep things simple
      • Advocacy&Outreach SIG is open to help meetup organizers to get their meetup started (mostly by advice since operations are managed by CDF)
      • jenkinsci-jam and events mailing lists are archived. The latter one is just inactive, the first one is plagued by spam and no longer used for meetup operations purposes
      • Advocacy&Outreach channels are used instead
    • Jenkins project might still use some of its own money to facilitate the meetups in addition to the CDF budget (SPI funds, CommunityBridge, etc.), but it is something to be discussed later.
I will add it to the next governance meeting on 15th and to the Advocacy&Outreach SIG meeting on 16th with voting for immediate actions:
  • Approve the suggested process in general && delegate the final process decision to the event officer and Advocacy and Outreach SIG (immediate/short-term stepdown for meetups which never happened, grace period for stale ones)
  • Approve archiving of jenkinsci-jam and events mailing lists mailing lists in favor of Advocacy & Outreach channels
I would appreciate any feedback here.

Best regards,
Oleg
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Oliver Gondža

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Jan 15, 2020, 5:02:09 AM1/15/20
to jenkin...@googlegroups.com
+1 from me on doing the cleanup. Meetup groups come and go. Great to see
a documented way to gring them back to life.

On 14/01/2020 14.59, Oleg Nenashev wrote:
> Thanks a lot for the notice Alyssa!
>
> If my message is too long, *TL;DR: *the meetups will be restored, but it
> is time to clean up the inactive meetups. There is a proposal below
>
> Some updates there:
>
> * As communicated by Tracy, the root cause is that meetup.com support
> removed more meetups than it was requested by CDF.
> * Last week we had a meeting with CDF where we discussed the issue.
> Participants: Alyssa Tong (Jenkins Event Officer), Jacqueline
> Salinas (Director of Ecosystem, CDF), Tracy Miranda and me
> * At this meeting we agreed that:
> o Removed meetups meetups will be restored. It will take a while
> since it is a lengthy manual process by meetup.com support
> o CDF will grant us an additional grace 3-month grace period to
> try restoring inactive meetups in the Jenkins community (and/or
> to convert them to CI/CD meetups). Heads-up about cleaning up
> inactive meetups was sent out on *Oct 26* to meetup organizers,
> so we will need to reimplement the process and do additional
> communications
> o If meetups are not restored, CDF will use the "step down"
> process
> <https://help.meetup.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002882191-Stepping-down-as-the-organizer-of-a-group>
> instead of deleting the meetups. It will give the local
> communities an additional chance to restore the meetups
>
> Just to explain the reasons of the Jenkins Area Meetups cleanup:
>
> * Running CI/CD Pro Meetup.com account
> <https://www.meetup.com/pro/cicd-cdf/> costs *12k USD per quarter*.
> The majority of these costs used to go to *106 *Jenkins Area Meetups
> * CDF has a limited budget for Outreach programs and meetups. They are
> happy to sponsor active meetups, but in the case of Jenkins we
> accumulated a number of inactive ones
> * Meanwhile, more than 60% of the meetups are dormant. Inactive
> meetups cost the same amount of money as active ones
> o *27* JAMs groups have NEVER had a meetup on meetup.com
> o *40* other JAMs did not have any events organized in 2019
> * Dormant JAMs prevent CDF from...
> o Sponsoring swag/food/venue for meetups and other events
> o Onboarding new CI/CD and Jenkins meetups in active local communities
> o Organizing other events and running outreach programs
>
> So you may see there is a good reason to cleanup meetups which are
> really inactive. Some of us might be mentally attached to these meetups
> (e.g. I was a co-org in several removed meetups), but IMO we need to
> face the reality and adjust our meetup program. I would suggest the
> following process:
>
> 1. Wait till meetups are restored
> 2. Do a best effort attempt to revive the meetups
> * Communicate the incoming deprecation/cleanup of meetups AGAIN to
> meetup organizers and all meetup members
> * For meetups that never happened
> o CDF steps down
> <https://help.meetup.com/hc/en-us/articles/360002882191-Stepping-down-as-the-organizer-of-a-group>
> as an organizer immediately after the meetup recovery.
> Current meetup leaders can take it over. If it does not
> happen, all meetup members will have 2 weeks to react and
> take over the meetups
> o If reactivated, meetups can rejoin again by following the
> process defined by CDF <https://github.com/cdfoundation/meetups>
> * For meetups with at least one event in the past
> o 3-month grace period is applied
> o During this period we will try to contact meetup organizers
> and members through community channels and get the meetups
> scheduled
> o If there are no meetups happen/get announced, CDF steps down
> as an organizer. Current meetup leaders can take it over or
> step down as leaders
> o If reactivated, meetups can rejoin again by following the
> process defined by CDF <https://github.com/cdfoundation/meetups>
> 3. Simplify the meetup process
> * CDF takes over the most of the operations responsibilities (see
> the JAM pull request from Alyssa
> <https://github.com/jenkins-infra/jenkins.io/pull/2748>)
> * We could simplify the meetup process and bound it to the
> Advocacy&Outreach SIG to keep things simple
> o Advocacy&Outreach SIG is open to help meetup organizers to
> get their meetup started (mostly by advice since operations
> are managed by CDF)
> o jenkinsci-jam and events mailing lists are archived. The
> latter one is just inactive, the first one is plagued by
> spam and no longer used for meetup operations purposes
> o Advocacy&Outreach channels are used instead
> * Jenkins project might still use some of its own money to
> facilitate the meetups in addition to the CDF budget (SPI funds,
> CommunityBridge, etc.), but it is something to be discussed later.
>
> I will add it to the next governance meeting on 15th
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/11Nr8QpqYgBiZjORplL_3Zkwys2qK1vEvK-NYyYa4rzg/edit#heading=h.vylsknw2s91m>
> and to the Advocacy&Outreach SIG meeting on 16th
> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1K5dTSqe56chFhDSGNfg_MCy-LmseUs_S3ys_tg60sTs/edit#heading=h.wynj4ac1a4f6>
> with voting for immediate actions:
>
> * Approve the suggested process in general && delegate the final
> process decision to the event officer and Advocacy and Outreach SIG
> (immediate/short-term stepdown for meetups which never happened,
> grace period for stale ones)
> * Approve archiving of jenkinsci-jam and events mailing lists mailing
> lists in favor of Advocacy & Outreach channels
>
> I would appreciate any feedback here.
>
> Best regards,
> Oleg
>
>
> On Friday, January 10, 2020 at 9:07:07 PM UTC+1, alytong13 wrote:
>
> +Jenkins Dev <javascript:> to the communication.
>
> Hi All,
>
> A brief update on this matter. We are continuing to work on this -
> we are are working with meetup.com <http://meetup.com> and CDF to
> it, send an email to jenkin...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-jam/CACTaz6qr1okyJtz%3DRfXKijczfuCrKbBnZA4WJqyEMbB8phx1%3DA%40mail.gmail.com
> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/jenkinsci-jam/CACTaz6qr1okyJtz%3DRfXKijczfuCrKbBnZA4WJqyEMbB8phx1%3DA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>.
>
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oliver

Oleg Nenashev

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Jan 16, 2020, 6:25:40 AM1/16/20
to Jenkins Developers
Just a quick update here, yesterday both topics were approved by the Governance board:
    • Approve the suggested process in general && delegate the final process decision to the event officer and Advocacy and Outreach SIG (immediate/short-term stepdown for meetups which never happened, grace period for stale ones)
    • Approve archiving of jenkinsci-jam and events mailing lists mailing lists in favor of Advocacy & Outreach channels
      We will proceed at Advocacy&Outreach SIG meeting on 16th with these topics

      Best regards,
      Oleg

      Oleg Nenashev

      unread,
      Feb 6, 2020, 6:34:56 AM2/6/20
      to Jenkins Developers
      Some updates in this thread:
      • Last week we had a discussion with Jacqueline Salinas at FOSDEM, and she escalated the meetups recovery topic to meetup.com (again)
      • Around 20 meetups were restored after that. IIUC it represents all meetup groups which have ever hosted a Jenkins meetup 
      • We updated all the documentation for mailing lists to redirect them to Advocacy&Outreach. INFRA tickets have been created for archiving old channels, but it will take a while due to other higher priorities in the INFRA team
      So now we can iterate on contacting these meetup groups and exploring options to recover regular Jenkins or CI/CD meetups there. If you are a leader of any restored meetup groups, please consider scheduling something

      Best regards,
      Oleg

      Alexandru Chiritescu

      unread,
      Feb 25, 2020, 7:22:03 AM2/25/20
      to Jenkins Developers
      Hi, The Stockholm Jenkins Meetup group was restored, but none of the old admins are organisers in the group. We would like to organize an event soon. How can we proceed to be able to organize meetups again under this group? Also, will the group be rebranded to the wider context of CDF? While the group was deleted, we were hosted by another meetup group for an event (https://www.meetup.com/DevOps-Stockholm/events/268502971/), but we would like to resume using this group if possible. Thanks, Alex

      Oleg Nenashev

      unread,
      Feb 25, 2020, 7:50:37 AM2/25/20
      to JenkinsCI Developers
      Hi Alexandru,

      I am going to request org admin rights in all Jenkins Area meetups to work on new organizers.
      Regarding the Stockholm meetup, I know the previous organizers. So I will follow-up in a private email.

      Best regards,
      Oleg


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