Almost have 1.3.0 Jacktrip Server running correctly on Ubuntu 20.04, BUT

[neal rhodes]

So much to my surprise yesterday I installed Ubuntu Desktop 20.04 on the Dell Optiplex 740, and compiled 1.3.0 Jacktrip and installed/built Jamulus.  

The Jamulus side IS working with our one Virtual Studio box here, and I've noodled around with the AT&T Uverse router to do the port forwarding to allow outside connections.  I've emailed all our singers to turn on their VS boxes and we'll see if they successfully connect.  Thus far I've got 4 devices saying they are connected, and two of us can hear each other.  I've got to chase down the other folks. 

On the Jacktrip side, not quite as much joy.   I was following Chris Chafe's Notes from 1/16/21, shown below.   I didn't notice anything amiss; a lot of compile warnings.   If I'm remembering right, this did NOT build jackd.    However, the Jamulus install directions DID.

WHEN the Jamulus instructions installed jackd, it threw up a dialog about

Configuring jackd2
If you want to run jackd with realtime priorities, the user starting jackd needs realtime permissions. Accept this option  to create the file /etc/security/limits.d/audio.conf, granting realtime priority and memlock privileges to the audio group.    

Running jackd with realtime priority minimizes latency, but may lead to complete system lock-ups by requesting all the   available physical system memory, which is unacceptable in multi-user environments.                                     

Enable realtime process priority?         

This sounded like a Good Thing, so I did.

Subsequent attempts to start JackTrip as a server failed with an error which seemed related to this.   I attempted to place my userid "neal" in the group audio with no success, so I ultimately created a user "jack" in the group "audio", and logged in as "jack" to start the server.   I also created  /etc/jackdrc and put “/usr/bin/jackd -d dummy --rate 48000 --period 128” in it.

Running "./jacktrip -S" as user jack resulted in starting, and a local connection was established from a VS box, but no audio and lots of errors:

$ ./jacktrip -S                                                                                                               
mThreadPool default maxThreadCount = 2                                                                                        
mThreadPool maxThreadCount set to 32                                                                                          
JackTrip HUB SERVER: UDP Base Port set to 61002                                                                               
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Waiting for client connections...                                                                        
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Hub auto audio patch setting = 0 (server-to-clients)                                                     
=======================================================                                                                       
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client Connection Received!                                                                              
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client Connect Received from Address : ::ffff:192.168.1.171                                              
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Reading UDP port from Client...                                                                          
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client UDP Port is = 4524                                                                                
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Sending Final UDP Port to Client: 61002                                                                  
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client TCP Connection Closed!                                                                            
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Spawning JackTripWorker...                                                                               
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Starting JackTripWorker...                                                                               
--->JackTripWorker: PeerNumChannels = 2                                                                                       
Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory                                                               
Cannot connect to server request channel                                                                                      
jackdmp 1.9.12                                                                                                                
Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others.                                                                                    
Copyright 2004-2016 Grame.                                                                                                    
Copyright 2016-2017 Filipe Coelho.                                                                                            
jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY                                                                                     
This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it                                                                 
under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details                                                                    
no message buffer overruns                                                                                                    
no message buffer overruns                                                                                                    
no message buffer overruns                                                                                                    
JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10                                                                        
self-connect-mode is "Don't restrict self connect requests"                                                                   
JACK server started                                                                                                           
Setting JACK Process Callback...                                                                                              
SUCCESS                                                                                                                       
---------------------------------------------------------                                                                     
The Sampling Rate is: 48000                                                                                                   
---------------------------------------------------------                                                                     
The Audio Buffer Size is: 128 samples                                                                                         
                      or: 512 bytes                                                                                           
---------------------------------------------------------                                                                     
The Number of Channels is: 2                                                                                                  
---------------------------------------------------------                                                                     
Using UDP Protocol                                                                                                            
---------------------------------------------------------                                                                     
Using JitterBuffer strategy 1                                                                                                 
Waiting for Connection From a Client...                                                                                       
UDP Socket Receiving in Port: 61002                                                                                           
---------------------------------------------------------                                                                     
Waiting for Peer...                                                                                                           
Received Connection from Peer!                                                                                                
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Total Running Threads:  1                                                                                
===============================================================                                                               
spawning jacktripWorker so change patch                                                                                       
JackEngine::XRun: client = __ffff_192.168.1.171 was not finished, state = Triggered                                           
JackAudioDriver::ProcessGraphAsyncMaster: Process error                                                                       
JackEngine::XRun: client = __ffff_192.168.1.171 was not finished, state = Triggered                                           
JackAudioDriver::ProcessGraphAsyncMaster: Process error                                                                       
JackTimedDriver::Process XRun = 57 usec                                                                                       
JackEngine::XRun: client = __ffff_192.168.1.171 was not finished, state = Triggered                                           
JackAudioDriver::ProcessGraphAsyncMaster: Process error                                                                       
JackTimedDriver::Process XRun = 57 usec                                                                                       
JackEngine::XRun: client = __ffff_192.168.1.171 was not finished, state = Triggered                                           
JackAudioDriver::ProcessGraphAsyncMaster: Process error                                                                       
JackTimedDriver::Process XRun = 32 usec                                                                                       
JackEngine::XRun: client = __ffff_192.168.1.171 was not finished, state = Triggered                                           
JackAudioDriver::ProcessGraphAsyncMaster: Process error                                                                       
JackTimedDriver::Process XRun = 30 usec                                                                                       
JackEngine::XRun: client = __ffff_192.168.1.171 was not finished, state = Triggered                                           
JackAudioDriver::ProcessGraphAsyncMaster: Process error                                                                       
JackTimedDriver::Process XRun = 33 usec                                                                                       
JackEngine::XRun: client = __ffff_192.168.1.171 was not finished, state = Triggered                                           
JackAudioDriver::ProcessGraphAsyncMaster: Process error    

The Jamulus install was done from this : https://jamulus.io/wiki/Server-Linux

The Jacktrip install was done from this:

[build tools]
sudo apt install -y --no-install-recommends build-essential qt5-default
[dependency]
sudo apt install libjack-jackd2-dev
[latest jacktrip]
git clone https://github.com/jacktrip/jacktrip.git
[go to src subdirectory]
cd jacktrip/src/
[start the build process]
./build

[neal rhodes]

So, due to the overwhelming responses, I did a little digging and there was a suggestion that pulseaudio might interfere with Jack.  So I killed that off. 

Restarted as user "jack" in group audio.   Got connection from a local VS box on same network, no errors, and no sound back at the VS box:

And a suspicious, yet difficult to identify, error:

$ ./jacktrip -S -n 12                                              

mThreadPool default maxThreadCount = 2                             
mThreadPool maxThreadCount set to 32                               
JackTrip HUB SERVER: UDP Base Port set to 61002                    
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Waiting for client connections...             
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Hub auto audio patch setting = 0 (server-to-clients)
=======================================================                 
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client Connection Received!
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client Connect Received from Address : ::ffff:192.168.1.171
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Reading UDP port from Client...
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client UDP Port is = 4524
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Sending Final UDP Port to Client: 61002
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client TCP Connection Closed!
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Spawning JackTripWorker...
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Starting JackTripWorker...
--->JackTripWorker: PeerNumChannels = 2

Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory  <=======================================================================

JackTrip HUB SERVER: Total Running Threads:  1
===============================================================

UDP Socket Receiving in Port: 61002
---------------------------------------------------------
Waiting for Peer...

spawning jacktripWorker so change patch

Received Connection from Peer!
JackTimedDriver::Process XRun = 14 usec

[Robert Holland]

I usually get that if the Jack daemon is not running (Start button in Jack Audio Connection Kit).

HTH

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Robert E B Holland

[neal rhodes]

Thanks.  But it appears jackd is running.

neal@neal-OptiPlex-740-Enhanced:~/jacktrip$ ps ax | fgrep jack
   1447 ?        Ss     0:00 sshd: jack [priv]
   1557 ?        S      0:00 sshd: jack@pts/0
   1700 pts/0    SLl+   6:02 ./jacktrip -S -n 12
   1708 ?        SLsl   0:39 /usr/bin/jackd -T -ndefault -d dummy --rate 48000 --period 128
   2020 pts/2    S+     0:00 grep -F --color=auto jack
neal@neal-OptiPlex-740-Enhanced:~/jacktrip$

[jim sartain]

Is there a number of channels mismatch between the command live server setting (-n 12) and the penultimate server log line,

"--->JackTripWorker: PeerNumChannels = 2" ?

Jim Sartain

[neal rhodes]

I would have guessed that PeerNumChannels is the number of input channels for each client, eg stereo.

[Bonnie Kwong]

I just noticed this: When you run the -S server, you need to add -p2 (for the clients to hear one another) or -p4 (for the full mix, if clients are to hear themselves as well as one another).  You may still have to look at the server console closely to see what's happening with JACK, but this should fix your audio issue if JACK is running. 

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[jim sartain]

In Chris Chafe's Kadenze Online Jamming course (Session 5, Clip 5) he mentions that each jacktrip server instance is only able to handle a single connection (but many channels).  So if the server was on one's own pc, for each remote partner, one would have to start a separate jacktrip server instance.  Each of these jacktrip server/client pairs must use a different port value.  To configure the jacktrip instance's TCP and UDP ports the -oXX offset is used.  This option accepts values that are added to the base port 4464.  So the option -o10 results in a base port of 4474.

In Clip 4 of Session 5, Chris explains that the channel count value (-nXX) used by a jacktrip server and client pair must be identical.

Jim Sartain

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Jim Sartain

[neal rhodes]

Yes, many thanks to Bonnie for noticing that startup defaults are NOT to echo the client back to itself.   

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[Keith Finnie]

Hi from Keith in Canada,

I am using JACKtrip-1.3.0, JACK 1.9.12 on Ubuntu Studio 20.04 at one end, and Ubuntu 20.04 at the other. JACK is as installed with the OS. JACKtrip obtained via git clone & local compile. 

We run "/usr/local/bin/jacktrip -S" on one workstation (in Victoria BC, 150mb internet Cable), and "/usr/local/bin/jacktrip -C server.name.com" on the other (in Oakville, Ontario, 50mb internet ADSL)

Both are set up SR/FP/PB = 48000/128/2.  

On server startup:

mThreadPool default maxThreadCount = 8
mThreadPool maxThreadCount set to 128

JackTrip HUB SERVER: UDP Base Port set to 61002
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Waiting for client connections...
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Hub auto audio patch setting = 0 (server-to-clients)
=======================================================

On Server when Client connects:

JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client Connection Received!

JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client Connect Received from Address : ::ffff:xxx.120.221.38

JackTrip HUB SERVER: Reading UDP port from Client...

JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client UDP Port is = 4464

JackTrip HUB SERVER: Sending Final UDP Port to Client: 61002
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Client TCP Connection Closed!
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Spawning JackTripWorker...
JackTrip HUB SERVER: Starting JackTripWorker...
--->JackTripWorker: PeerNumChannels = 2

Setting JACK Process Callback...
SUCCESS
---------------------------------------------------------
The Sampling Rate is: 48000
---------------------------------------------------------
The Audio Buffer Size is: 128 samples
                     or: 512 bytes
---------------------------------------------------------
The Number of Channels is: 2
---------------------------------------------------------
Using UDP Protocol
---------------------------------------------------------
Using JitterBuffer strategy 1
Waiting for Connection From a Client...
UDP Socket Receiving in Port: 61002
---------------------------------------------------------
Waiting for Peer...

JackTrip HUB SERVER: Total Running Threads:  1
===============================================================

Received Connection from Peer!

spawning jacktripWorker so change patch

On Client when connecting:

Setting JACK Process Callback...

SUCCESS

---------------------------------------------------------

The Sampling Rate is: 48000

---------------------------------------------------------

The Audio Buffer Size is: 128 samples

                      or: 512 bytes

---------------------------------------------------------

The Number of Channels is: 2

---------------------------------------------------------

Using UDP Protocol

---------------------------------------------------------

Using JitterBuffer strategy 1

Server Address set to: server.name.com Port: 61002

---------------------------------------------------------

UDP Socket Receiving in Port: 4464

---------------------------------------------------------

Waiting for Peer...

Received Connection from Peer!

JackEngine::XRun: client = JACKtrip was not finished, state = Running

JackAudioDriver::ProcessGraphAsyncMaster: Process error

Usage Performance:

Operation is stable and reliable.

We can each hear ourselves and our partner, barely noticeable latency with guitar in one ear and microphone in the other, and simultaneously with Zoom (audio muted), and a Youtube video added in for play-along. 

We get occasional "UDP waiting too long (more than 30ms)" messages at both ends, but no significant sound artifacts.  

 

Our expectation was that latency performance would not be this good, as we are 4000km apart.

If our setup can be useful for testing we'd be happy to help.

Keith

[neal rhodes]

Thanks for replying.   With the missing clue about -p 4, we appear to be running today.  I have two VS boxes here, and two more at different singers houses a few miles away, and all appear to be connecting.   Hopefully more singers will get my email today and fire up their boxes.

So, I'm wondering if you did any of the following..

- installing the stock Ubuntu jackd asked a question about real-time processing options; did you pick yes?

- did you kill off PulseAudio?

- did you create a user in group "audio" to run this?

I'm trying to see which of my various rabbit holes was productive and which were unecessary.

Regarding latency, I've noticed that what SEEMS like minimal latency turns out to be very un-minimal once you are playing and trying to stay in time with each other.   Or at least playing slow bluegrass/gospel.

regards,

Neal

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[Keith Finnie]

Hi Neal,

I have not yet dealt with more than one remote location, so YMMV. We have another person joining us in a few weeks. In anticipation, (like you) I am using the "Hub" mode JACKtrip server (C and S, rather than c and s). My understanding is that in this mode, the server hands out unique ports in the range 61002-62000, rather than requiring multiple server invocations with unique ports specified on the command line.

Answers to your questions:

* stock Ubuntu jackd asked a question about real-time processing options; did you pick yes. YES. I used the Ubuntu Studio Installer to perform the Low Latency Kernel installation required for this. This automatically sets up user permissions for JACK.

* did you create a user in group "audio" to run this? NO. The audio group is created with stock OS installation. You can add any userid to the group, log off, and log in again to pick up the change. 

* did you kill off PulseAudio? NO.

• I used the command "apt-get install qjackctl pulseaudio-module-jack".
• Then configured qJACKctl to run the command "pacmd set-default-sink pulseaudio-module-jack" after startup. 
• The place to do this is "Setup..." > "Options" > "Execute script after Startup":
• With pulseaudio-module-jack installed and set up, browser audio works whether QJACKctl is started or stopped, no further intervention required. I have the habit of shutting down JACKtrip before stopping qJACKctl, and restarting JACKtrip after restarting qJACKctl. 

Regarding Latency:

Make sure that "Direct Monitoring" is turned off on *your* audio interface when you are playing together. (I don't know about the VS's). In my situation, done at both ends this improves the ability to play together in sync.

If you think it will help, I will send screenshots of my qJACKctl Setup screens.

Hope this helps.

Keith

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[neal rhodes]

Thanks.  Regrettably, the NVidia chip on this Dell motherboard is totally insane, and I can only run the text mode console, so no graphical UI for me on this box.   It does look to me like PulseAudio WILL interfere with Jack, and as usual with linux there are a dozen ways of handling that.

I didn't do the low latency Kernel. 

Hmm.  I DID futz about trying to add myself to the group audio;  to no apparent effect.  Didn't think about needing to login again.

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[Keith Finnie]

The lack of low latency kernel is very likely the reason for poor latency. I would place this at the top of the to-do list.

What model is your Dell? 

Keith

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[neal rhodes]

Well, isn't the reported latency essentially the PING time between clients?  In which case, yup, that's pretty much the sad ping times between Comcast and AT&T clients outside Atlanta these days.

The Dell I had laying around was my wife's old Optiplex 740.

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[Keith Finnie]

What is your ping response?

Did you install the desktop or server version of Ubuntu?

K

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[neal rhodes]

Within Comcast User to Comcast User, 23ms.    AT&T user to Comcast is 33ms.

I foolishly installed Desktop, and when I tried to re-install with server version was unable to get the server ISO to install.   It appeared to boot off the server DVD, but then decided to do nothing and start the desktop version.

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[Keith Finnie]

Your ping times are less than half of what we are experiencing - so I think it is worth sorting out.

How much RAM in your computer?

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[neal rhodes]

What is it you think we are sorting out?   

BTW, looks like it has 4GB.

neal@neal-OptiPlex-740-Enhanced:~/jacktrip/builddir$ free -m
              total        used        free      shared  buff/cache   available
Mem:           3870         533         147           7        3189        3049
Swap:          2047           0        2047

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[Jason Tiller]

Hi, Neal,

I'll just say that server software is typically optimized for throughput, not latency. I don't see why a server distribution would be any better than a desktop distribution. Installing the low-latency kernel will have far more of an effect, I'd think.

---Jason

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[Keith Finnie]

Hi Neal,

I agree with Jason. Audio processing latency in your computer + network latency (ping response) = the latency you wish to minimize.  

 

A re-install using a Desktop distribution like Ubuntu Studio will be worth the effort: providing graphical UI, a fully sorted out and automatic installation/configuration of a low-latency kernel, JACK, qJACKctl leaving just JACKtrip for manual installation.

Your computer has double the recommended 2gb RAM (notwithstanding, a slower CPU).  The  graphical display allows ready visual display of what is going on thru qJACKctl 'Connect' and 'Messages' windows, and 'Setup' configuration panels for JACK. You can use a terminal window to run the JACKtrip server. 

Keith

[neal rhodes]

Thank you for the reply. 

 

 Attached is what my graphical interface looks like. I will note that this Dell never managed to upgrade to Windows 10 because of the Nvidia chip in the lack of proper drivers. So it's fair to say this dog will not hunt in graphical mode. I would also prefer to avoid the overhead of running a graphical UI on the CPU.

Regarding latency, my understanding of jacktrip running as a server is that there is no audio conversion involved, hence no access to the sound Hardware.   Indeed, the same software can run on a Raspberry Pi  which lacks any sound Hardware.  It gets Digital Data in, and it's routes out Digital Data. I can in fact put on a low latency kernel.

I'm still struggling to understand what problem you think I need to be solving. If the ping time between singers is 35 milliseconds, I don't see how I'm going to improve on that. My net latency will likely be around 37 milliseconds accounting for the hifiberry cards at both ends.

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[Keith Finnie]

Hi Neal,

Happy to help if I can.

Too bad the video card is unusable. I find qJACKctl is very handy.

The problem I think you have was stated in your first reply to me:

"Regarding latency, I've noticed that what SEEMS like minimal latency turns out to be very un-minimal once you are playing and trying to stay in time with each other."

Assuming this is your root issue (and it sounds significant) and based on our dialog, you only appear to have one variable left to try to improve/reduce latency.

That remaining variable is your linux jacktrip server computer. Do you have an actual measure of latency through your server? If you have none, and have not yet tried the low-latency kernel, it is worth a try. In this article, ideal latency through a host system is indicated to be as low as 10 msec. Given the performance specifications of the Dell Optiplex 740, I suspect it does not deliver ideal latency.

Your server CPU is either a single-core OR a dual-core AMD Athlon 64. Either way, the low-latency kernel change is the only way I can think of to improve performance, other than getting a better computer. 

(The technical reason why is, JACK and JACKtrip require two threads: one for JACK, and JACKtrip another. A single core CPU has only one thread and therefore cannot walk (JACK) and chew gum (JACKtrip) at the same time).

Again, I hope this helps.

Keith

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[neal rhodes]

Yes, a bit of misunderstanding.

My original problem was that after building Jacktrip on Ubuntu, I wasn't getting any audio back from a VS box, but WAS getting audio back from a Jamulus server on the same Ubuntu box.   Turns out I missed the memo on startup options.   Jacktrip is indeed working as a server on this Ubuntu box, and we had four VS boxes at different houses connecting to it on Friday.

We have produced viable recordings which have been used in streaming church services with 7 VS boxes covering 11 musicians.   Those have mostly been done via a Jamulus server which reports 30ms.   We consider that the far edge of the envelope.     

We have attempted recording sessions with the foundation managed servers in Virginia, which typically report 40ms with Atlanta.

The general "ideal" total latency recommendation I've read is to aim for 25ms.      Our experience is that we can muscle through with 30ms.    

In our experience, 40ms SOUNDS like minimal latency, until someone pulls out a banjo.   And then we find that it's simply not possible for a group of musicians to avoid slowing down, unless they just stop listening to each other.   I hear the guitar slower than me, and I mentally slow down, and they hear me slow down, and they slow down.   repeat, and after 15 seconds you are down to 80bpm. 

SO, the reason I built this local server is to get a JackTrip server, with the features it offers over Jamulus, but with the 30ms network latency we need, rather than the 40ms we would get from the managed servers 600 miles away.

We haven't yet done a full blown test with all singers on the UBuntu server; I can't tell now if we'll run out of AT&T bandwidth or CPU first.  Or it might be just fine.   We shall see.    

Sorry for the confusion. 

regards,

Neal

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