Varnish?

[Edward Sitver]

Hello All,

I’ve searched the old Yahoo conversations and the current Google for threads on refinishing the wood on our boats (I’m going to do the companionway threshold and steps), and there’s not too much in there, other one recommendation for something called Epifanes wood finish. So… three years down the road from that conversation, I’m wondering if there is anyone with good success on refinishing any of the wood on a J/4x.

I’ve seen some very nice results with Petit’s water-based finish, but not sure the color is a great match.

Ed


------------------------------------
Ed Sitver
esi...@gmail.com
WhatsApp: +1 303-570-5071
Mobile: +1 303-570-5071
------------------------------------

[Tom Keffer]

I use Cetol on the threshold, Goldspar Satin Varnish everywhere else.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "J/4X Owner's Group" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to j4x-owners-gro...@googlegroups.com.
To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/E71637AF-CC01-40DF-94A1-F9806150D048%40gmail.com.

[Al Goethe]

What about the sole? Seems like a hard surface like two part polyurethane would be best for that, but I’ve not seen a satin finish in that. 

Sent from my iPhone

Al Goethe

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CAPq0zEAoF_cnUuGjZYsqhEcy1sBQL9Fu-zLi%2BxSe_%2B8Brdx72g%40mail.gmail.com.

[Tom Keffer]

I would still consider the Goldspar Varnish. Alternatively, a 2-part polyurethane like Perfection Plus, but those are best applied by professionals with a spray gun.

I seem to recall Practical Sailor did a survey a few years ago of varnish for teak-and-holly soles.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/FC9911A2-179B-4F1B-9CED-CFDFA43BD1F2%40gmail.com.

[Tom Keffer]

Here's the article: https://www.practical-sailor.com/boat-maintenance/finishing-the-cabin-sole

-tk

[William Stellin]

One of many things that attracted me to the J/42 was the absence of outside wood. I use Cetol on the threshold and cleats that hold the weather boards. I refinish them as infrequently as possible.
A few years ago I took out all the main cabin sole, brought it home for the winter and refinished it with satin polyurethane from Ace or True Value. It has held up beautifully and if you have to touch up a spot or two, it blends in great.
One tip, if you remove the sole note there are random shims between it and the stringers. Try not to remove them or mark which one goes where. Otherwise the floor squeaks as it flexes. If you ignore the shims, you might get over the squeaks after 5 or so years. Taking up the sole to re shim it is not worth the job.
Bill. #6

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 30, 2020, at 10:54 AM, Edward Sitver <esi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello All,

> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "J/4X Owner's Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to j4x-owners-gro...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fj4x-owners-group%2FE71637AF-CC01-40DF-94A1-F9806150D048%2540gmail.com&amp;data=02%7C01%7C%7C8805e1b4d71843f3025b08d804a96a2b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637264472955000958&amp;sdata=tjFl7OYyw%2F5kAFvtFTgnpLk9PHkNVwim2RRDlWBpad0%3D&amp;reserved=0.

[William Stellin]

One more thing. The steps are screwed to the metal frame and glued with 5200. You might destroy a step trying to remove it. I refinished them with satin hardware store polyurethane as well.
Bill#6

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 30, 2020, at 10:54 AM, Edward Sitver <esi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>

> Hello All,

[Ed S]

Good info on the steps Bill. I was planning to remove those and work on them in a friend’s wood shop. Guess not.

Ed

> On May 30, 2020, at 12:15 PM, William Stellin <wste...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> One more thing. The steps are screwed to the metal frame and glued with 5200. You might destroy a step trying to remove it. I refinished them with satin hardware store polyurethane as well.

> Bill#6
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On May 30, 2020, at 10:54 AM, Edward Sitver <esi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I’ve searched the old Yahoo conversations and the current Google for threads on refinishing the wood on our boats (I’m going to do the companionway threshold and steps), and there’s not too much in there, other one recommendation for something called Epifanes wood finish. So… three years down the road from that conversation, I’m wondering if there is anyone with good success on refinishing any of the wood on a J/4x.
>>
>> I’ve seen some very nice results with Petit’s water-based finish, but not sure the color is a great match.
>>
>> Ed
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------
>> Ed Sitver
>> esi...@gmail.com
>> WhatsApp: +1 303-570-5071
>> Mobile: +1 303-570-5071
>> ------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "J/4X Owner's Group" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to j4x-owners-gro...@googlegroups.com.

>> To view this discussion on the web visit https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fgroups.google.com%2Fd%2Fmsgid%2Fj4x-owners-group%2FE71637AF-CC01-40DF-94A1-F9806150D048%2540gmail.com&data=02%7C01%7C%7C8805e1b4d71843f3025b08d804a96a2b%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637264472955000958&sdata=tjFl7OYyw%2F5kAFvtFTgnpLk9PHkNVwim2RRDlWBpad0%3D&reserved=0.

>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "J/4X Owner's Group" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to j4x-owners-gro...@googlegroups.com.

> To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/DM6PR04MB38358CB9F1399E91D8F89ADCDD8C0%40DM6PR04MB3835.namprd04.prod.outlook.com.

[Robert Kowalski]

Little about the finishes on mid 90ties to like 2005 Jboats. On the interior they used a Sherwin Williams conversion varnish it’s a two part finish that needs a very controlled environment can’t be brushed and doesn’t play well with other finishes and doesn’t strip very well using chemical strippers. The good news is marine varnishes like Epifanes and Cetol you will get a chemical bond but still scuff and clean before applying. Poly anything or water base finishes you won’t be getting a chemical bond so if you HAVE to use any of them sand just to like 180 to get a good mechanical bond.

Now the floors/soles in jboats of that era teak and holly veneer over 1/2 or 3/4 plywood (i’d suggest adding 1/4” layer to 1/2” if you some of the unfortunate that have the 1/2”) according to Everett Pearson’s son ( I never can remember his name pretty sure he doesn’t remember mine either) says that Tpi used a base coat of epoxy with a finish coat of conversion varnish but from the huge of some I’ve seen I think some are a polyester and the way I’ve seen some wear I’d say are just the conversion varnish and nothing else.

Me I use the Epifanes simply because I like it’s amber huge flows good easy to brush or spray. On the floors I seal with epoxy thinned 70% (yes 70%) with xylene rolled on 2 coats then spray the Epfanes gloss on top until the gain is filled. 

first coat…

Bob

Sailing a course less traveled

Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/7DEB4C7F-BC3D-4FF0-A64F-8D1F1971F5EB%40gmail.com.

[Ward Blodgett]

I took all the floorboards out of the boat this winter and refinished them.  Bill is right there are shims and/or rubber padding under certain boards to prevent squeaking.  My floorboards used to squeak last year.  Anyway, I decided to put 1/4” weather stripping on all the stringers to cushion the floorboards.  Getting the floorboards back in with the added weather stripping was tight but very manageable.  All the squeaking is gone and I am delighted.  

For the refinish, I sanded the boards and trim pieces lightly and then sprayed two coats of Zar Exterior Poly Ultraviolet (satin finish).  It is a self leveling oil based polyurethane with ultraviolet protection.  Satin shows less dirt and scratches over time.  Floor looks great.

By the way, if you have a fresh water foot pump added in the galley, you will need to take the pump out to get the galley floorboard out.  I finished that one in place.

Ward

Mistral #22

On May 31, 2020, at 7:09 AM, Robert Kowalski <rc...@charter.net> wrote:

Little about the finishes on mid 90ties to like 2005 Jboats. On the interior they used a Sherwin Williams conversion varnish it’s a two part finish that needs a very controlled environment can’t be brushed and doesn’t play well with other finishes and doesn’t strip very well using chemical strippers. The good news is marine varnishes like Epifanes and Cetol you will get a chemical bond but still scuff and clean before applying. Poly anything or water base finishes you won’t be getting a chemical bond so if you HAVE to use any of them sand just to like 180 to get a good mechanical bond.

Now the floors/soles in jboats of that era teak and holly veneer over 1/2 or 3/4 plywood (i’d suggest adding 1/4” layer to 1/2” if you some of the unfortunate that have the 1/2”) according to Everett Pearson’s son ( I never can remember his name pretty sure he doesn’t remember mine either) says that Tpi used a base coat of epoxy with a finish coat of conversion varnish but from the huge of some I’ve seen I think some are a polyester and the way I’ve seen some wear I’d say are just the conversion varnish and nothing else.

Me I use the Epifanes simply because I like it’s amber huge flows good easy to brush or spray. On the floors I seal with epoxy thinned 70% (yes 70%) with xylene rolled on 2 coats then spray the Epfanes gloss on top until the gain is filled. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/1653C5F4-F3CF-40F9-B189-1860048F6123%40charter.net.

[Ed S]

Good info on the varnish Bob. thanks for that. Think it’s possible to touch up small dents in the finish without them being obvious?  

Anybody else have water “stain” their sole.  I have spots where water that was left standing for no more than a very short time has left lightened areas.  Seems very odd for a boat sole. Must have something to do with the varnish used.  

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esitver@gmail.com

WhatsApp:  +1 303-570-5071

Mobile:  +1 303-570-5071

------------------------------------

On May 31, 2020, at 07:09, Robert Kowalski <rc...@charter.net> wrote:

Little about the finishes on mid 90ties to like 2005 Jboats. On the interior they used a Sherwin Williams conversion varnish it’s a two part finish that needs a very controlled environment can’t be brushed and doesn’t play well with other finishes and doesn’t strip very well using chemical strippers. The good news is marine varnishes like Epifanes and Cetol you will get a chemical bond but still scuff and clean before applying. Poly anything or water base finishes you won’t be getting a chemical bond so if you HAVE to use any of them sand just to like 180 to get a good mechanical bond.

Now the floors/soles in jboats of that era teak and holly veneer over 1/2 or 3/4 plywood (i’d suggest adding 1/4” layer to 1/2” if you some of the unfortunate that have the 1/2”) according to Everett Pearson’s son ( I never can remember his name pretty sure he doesn’t remember mine either) says that Tpi used a base coat of epoxy with a finish coat of conversion varnish but from the huge of some I’ve seen I think some are a polyester and the way I’ve seen some wear I’d say are just the conversion varnish and nothing else.

Me I use the Epifanes simply because I like it’s amber huge flows good easy to brush or spray. On the floors I seal with epoxy thinned 70% (yes 70%) with xylene rolled on 2 coats then spray the Epfanes gloss on top until the gain is filled. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/1653C5F4-F3CF-40F9-B189-1860048F6123%40charter.net.

[Tom Keffer]

Happens to me all the time. If you leave it uncovered, it will eventually clear, although it may take a few weeks.

-tk

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/B62BB66D-A5E0-46A2-B38A-8E20CA01EBF1%40gmail.com.

[Al Goethe]

I have found that the white goes away faster if you ‘wash’ the area with fresh (not salt) water first. 

Sent from my iPhone

Al Goethe

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CAPq0zEAV-QMrurqjvATfLqAEwDtg-V%3DnDM%3DGHOH5f%2Bp2YDmkyQ%40mail.gmail.com.

[Ed S]

Thanks guys. I have some spots that have been there long-term. Still haven’t figured out what to do about them. 

I also have a number of places where I’ve dropped objects and dented the finish on the sole It’s a real crime, because when I bought the boat 2 1/2 years ago, the sole looked virtually brand new. I’ve just assume there’s no way to repair those without the repair being even more obvious visually than the dents, but I wonder if I have some options, now that I know more about how the wood has been finished. Taking care of my steps and the companion way threshold is still priority, but I’d be curious to hear if anybody has made small cosmetic repairs to dents in the finish on the sole. Again, not at the top of my to-do list, but would be nice.

Ed

------------------------------------

Ed Sitver

esitver@gmail.com

WhatsApp:  +1 303-570-5071

Mobile:  +1 303-570-5071

------------------------------------

On May 31, 2020, at 12:27, Al Goethe <ankg...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have found that the white goes away faster if you ‘wash’ the area with fresh (not salt) water first. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/C420A56F-EDE1-4CC5-BEB6-78B63A0A5C61%40gmail.com.

[Robert Kowalski]

With conversion varnish the whitening from moister normally goes away in time, you can try some denatured alcohol sometimes that’ll draw it out.

Generally dents are where the rug goes once the whole sole is covered then you refinish… but you could try putting a drop of epoxy in the dent it has to crown above tithe surface, then after a day or two sand it down with a block to like 1000 grit and if it’s a satin finish rub it out with a grey pad. You might want to stab the dent with an X-acto knife to get a little mechanical bond going too.

Bob

Sailing a course less traveled

Delightfully typed on a full keyboard on a mac

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/98F297DD-3199-42A8-86C3-B497D8296DC9%40gmail.com.

[Ed S]

Bob,

Excellent. Thanks again for the help. 

Ed

On May 31, 2020, at 6:06 PM, Robert Kowalski <rc...@charter.net> wrote:

With conversion varnish the whitening from moister normally goes away in time, you can try some denatured alcohol sometimes that’ll draw it out.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/12416DB8-083F-4355-8E0B-A5165264A1AC%40charter.net.

[Jay PA]

Following advice from TPI, years ago, I use a heat gun with success.  Go slowly, being very careful not to heat it too much, to get the moisture out that causes the whitish cloudiness in the cabin sole varnish.

Jay

J/42 Cirrus

[Al Goethe]

So, has anybody tried any chemical strippers that do work? I have the same ‘milky’ staining varnish and am getting ready to redo the top surface of my sole. The back side is epoxied already. I intend to go back to the bare wood and build it up from there using single part satin polyurethane. 

Not looking forward to sanding it all down (has anybody tried a belt sander with 240 grit paper?). But the surface shows many dings after 20 years and it’s time. I intend to fill dents with clear epoxy after the grain is sealed with a few layers of thinned polyurethane to maintain a consistent color. 

Any feedback?

Al Goethe

J/46 HN31 Hamburg II

On Jun 12, 2021, at 18:25, Jay PA <svh...@gmail.com> wrote:

Following advice from TPI, years ago, I use a heat gun with success.  Go slowly, being very careful not to heat it too much, to get the moisture out that causes the whitish cloudiness in the cabin sole varnish.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/c349e32b-e2d1-4be5-84b9-7ceab1f84895n%40googlegroups.com.

[Sweet Ruca]

Hi Al,

We sanded ours down and refinished with 4 coats of west system, thinned as needed, then 4 coats of Epifanes clear polyurethane. 

We did them outside in a boatyard, rolled on, with shop setup under a neighboring trimiran and had a volcano eruption at the same time, so it was quite a challenge and they aren't "perfect" but we liked they way they turned out, and think they will be durable. 

The pic below you can see the new vs the old (we didn't redo the cabins as they weren't as worn, but now we want to).

Also we used Epifanes clear and rubbed effect varnish on some worn interior spots. It seemed to match well. 

Cheers,

Curtis & Kate

J/46 #12

www.sweetruca.com

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/F759D449-3EEB-447D-8C3B-3B9039C177D7%40gmail.com.

[Owen Harren]

Sweet Ruca - where's the YouTube videos?!?!

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CAGSa-zOB0NOKgAsoC6gECzQ02tvTyThjuN_OTXWtvrT-%2BfjsHg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Al Goethe]

Thanks, Curtis!

Was the Epiphanes single or two part polyurethane?

Sent from my iPhone

Al Goethe

On Jun 14, 2021, at 09:30, Sweet Ruca <rucas...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CAGSa-zOB0NOKgAsoC6gECzQ02tvTyThjuN_OTXWtvrT-%2BfjsHg%40mail.gmail.com.

<20210614_142021.jpg>

[Sweet Ruca]

Al,

Two part on the floors. One part on the trim.

The book "Hinkley Guide to Yacht Care" was used as our guideline for the process.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/2870E419-3BE5-4390-9373-B6D0FB6AD5C5%40gmail.com.

[Sweet Ruca]

Owen,

More to come very soon. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CADG54dYWUF-d9dxrp3sz%2BzGR-N3S%3DWmWjyCD7Tj0a7g0nSyWiw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Owen Harren]

Good to hear! Sorry for high jacking the thread...!

"O"

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CAGSa-zNVBsB70sJO%3DnLDbC85_s_%3DxZYDDMuDSn9YB%3DRA53q6xA%40mail.gmail.com.

[Al Goethe]

The picture looks gorgeous! I was worried about the glossy surface being slick when wet. What is your experience with that?

Sent from my iPhone

Al Goethe

On Jun 15, 2021, at 07:37, Sweet Ruca <rucas...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CAGSa-zNwUqqhkiCuYJvzwN%3DkR3621kGSxMuCc2aiyQDqsB4jOg%40mail.gmail.com.

[Graeme Nichol]

Anybody else have 'spongy' floors?

There must have been a water leak at some stage. It's dry now. In the area between the engine and the Nav table/Stbd berth, the floor visibly moves. The veneer has also been damaged...

My floors seem well screwed down, so I'm not sure how I could replace the panel or part of it?

Probably need a professional job done!

My boat is a 1990 J40

Graeme 

Sail, Relax, Repeat

       ~~~ _/) ~~~

On Jun 15, 2021, at 12:02, Al Goethe <ankg...@gmail.com> wrote:

The picture looks gorgeous! I was worried about the glossy surface being slick when wet. What is your experience with that?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/87E47C70-2D52-4485-A929-BCAD34B7A52E%40gmail.com.

[Albert Bossar]

I think that a number of owners have well documented the habitual wet sailing or standing water when beating to weather either at the Nav Table or in the galley areas for the J40s/42s. I curse every time it happens to us. Once we start beating heavily to weather or bury the rail (both port and starboard tack) we get a decent amount of water entry that we need to sponge bail every watch. I cannot for the love of life find where the water is coming from. 

My cabin soul suffered the same sogginess and delamination, but it was largely due to a poor install/replacement under previous owner. 

On the good side, the soul comes up rather easily - after removing trim - remember to keep those screws and shims. 

I have incrementally repaired/replaced the four main pieces in the main salon. I professionally replaced the portion at the Nav Table back to the engine compartment/companionway ladder (Phipps Boatworks Deale, MD). I did an epoxy repair on the two portions in the main salon port and starboard as a temp fix until I replaced them professionally this offseason. The portion from the companionway ladder around to the galley is now the worst portion and next up.

.

I simply remove the soul pieces, jam full of medium cure epoxy+filler and weigh down with something very heavy to press together the delaminated portions (i.e. sandbags+buckets+bricks) for two days; then reinstall. Very easy, and the epoxy fix held up to 8 people for the Annapolis-Newport race and return delivery. Does not look as posh as the professionally replaced portion, but very happy and very cheap fix.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/D597C238-CA58-4BB9-AFA2-83A3950FEDAF%40yahoo.com.

[rhall...@gmail.com]

Let me start off by saying, I am not a wood worker.  But, it is easy to redo your floors.  Remove old floor.  Buy new sheet of teak and holly ply.  Lay the old sheet on top of the new sheet and clamp down, making sure the holly yellow lines match up.  (this is where you will get waste)  Buy, rent or borrow a router, with a trim bit.  Trace the old sheet, it cuts the new sheet perfect. 

 

Go to boat see if it fits.  Then 4 coats of west system epoxy on bottom, 2 coats on top followed by 4-6 epifanes coats. 

 

Also, while the old floor and the new floor are still clamped together, drill the screw holes, through the old holes. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/D597C238-CA58-4BB9-AFA2-83A3950FEDAF%40yahoo.com.

---

Scanned by McAfee and confirmed virus-free.

[Joseph Ruzzi]

Everyone,

Here's an article Al Schreitmueller put together when he replaced the cabin sole on hull #4, Lark. 

https://j40sailors.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/cabin-solej.pdf

This article and many others germane to J/4x boats are available on the https://j40sailors.com/ site. 

 Joe

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/013201d762be%246a4da260%243ee8e720%24%40gmail.com.

[Marina Gmail]

Have you checked if the water is coming from the rudder bearing? We had this problem sailing across the Sea of Cortez. Our solution will be to add a gaitor from the bearing to the rudder post. 

Marina & Jay Zucca

Blue Sugar

J42 #33

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 16, 2021, at 7:46 AM, rhall...@gmail.com wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/013201d762be%246a4da260%243ee8e720%24%40gmail.com.

[William Stellin]

Same entrance way for water for us. We repacked the bearing seal. 

 Bill #6

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 16, 2021, at 11:06 AM, Marina Gmail <chiarap...@gmail.com> wrote:

 Have you checked if the water is coming from the rudder bearing? We had this problem sailing across the Sea of Cortez. Our solution will be to add a gaitor from the bearing to the rudder post. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/2C7C7103-7E19-429C-8330-4505357A1714%40gmail.com.

[Ward Blodgett]

On our J42, I have found that when beating to weather in heavy air on starboard tack, especially if you bury the rail, water can and does come up through the head sinks; both forward and aft.  In the aft head, the water can and does find its way to the galley area and if you tack to port is then in the nav area. 

 

The solution that we use is if you know you will be beating in heavy air, close the thru-hulls in the head sinks before you start.

 

Ward

Mistral #22

 

From: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> On Behalf Of Albert Bossar
Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2021 10:35 AM
To: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [J/4X-owners] Varnish?

 

I think that a number of owners have well documented the habitual wet sailing or standing water when beating to weather either at the Nav Table or in the galley areas for the J40s/42s. I curse every time it happens to us. Once we start beating heavily to weather or bury the rail (both port and starboard tack) we get a decent amount of water entry that we need to sponge bail every watch. I cannot for the love of life find where the water is coming from. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CAHaB2EZ0ZD2y%2BcNymjjffkcWE-2HP8C5hPjRh%3DjBaTatA%2BV4Qw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Dick York]

J/42 owners.....   

I sailed on a J/42, probably a hull number in the 50s.  Weird thing..... 

The bilge pump outlet is buried underwater when beating.  We found water pushing back through the pump hose and through the pump into the bilge.  

There was no vented loop in the system (although there was a not-very-high loop).  So once the waves drove the water back up past the loop, a siphon took over and brought a lot of water in.

Anyone else have this issue?  How did you solve it?

Having a through-hull valve to close is certainly not in concert with the idea of a bilge pump(!)

Thank You ....Dick York

 "...get back aboard the boat where everything seems to make better sense."  M. Roye

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/BL0PR05MB5601C52289319FB1BA6F987DC00F9%40BL0PR05MB5601.namprd05.prod.outlook.com.

[Al Goethe]

Do you have that issue on the J/46, Dick?

Sent from my iPhone

Al Goethe

On Jun 16, 2021, at 12:58, Dick York <york.r...@gmail.com> wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/CAFttXV4NXjaLDjw29%3DiKSc_xaTRO-%2Bc4u_gGXyW9geCGBpR_qw%40mail.gmail.com.

[Al Goethe]

When y’all are talking about West System on the top surface, are you saying 105 resin and (clear) 207 hardener?

Sent from my iPhone

Al Goethe

On Jun 16, 2021, at 09:46, rhall...@gmail.com wrote:



To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/013201d762be%246a4da260%243ee8e720%24%40gmail.com.

[rhall...@gmail.com]

Yes.  You need to seal top bottom and all side edges.  I then lightly sanded the top to remove imperfections.  Then added 4-6 coats of varnish, on the top.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/3352B9E2-AF0B-4868-BA74-B79BF6AC2DC5%40gmail.com.

[Al Goethe]

So, I started my sole project. I quickly recognized that sanding the sole back to the bare wood is a bigger deal than I thought. With a random orbital sander I don’t seem to get down to the wood using 100 or even lower grit even after substantial sanding time. Another issue seems to be that the wood may have been stained originally - and it’s pretty impossible to get to the wood and NOT also take the stain off. 

So now I’m considering sanding the sole, but not all the way back to the bare wood, except to gently grind out the pock marks where the original surface was broken and the wood discolored. I would then put a couple of west system epoxy over everything with the idea that the epoxy will fill the ground out dimples. Over all that I’d put several layers of two-part polyurethane (Interlux with 50:50 mix of the flattening agent). 

Thoughts? Will the epoxy properly bond with the base that is on the sole originally (the stuff that gets milky when wet)?

Sent from my iPhone

Al Goethe

On Jun 16, 2021, at 09:07, 'Graeme Nichol' via J/4X Owner's Group <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Anybody else have 'spongy' floors?

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/D597C238-CA58-4BB9-AFA2-83A3950FEDAF%40yahoo.com.

[Sweet Ruca]

We we went into the top layers of epoxy/poly with 40 grit. Had to be carefull, but worked OK.

Most discorations we had were removed with the epoxy.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/ED1B9D35-D9EF-40C2-A4FD-904EA8209402%40gmail.com.

[William Stellin]

Be very careful sanding as the veneer is thin and you are apt to sand through it. I used stripper on the vee berth sole and was disappointed with the results. The stripper got down to the bare wood and it also removed the grain filler as well as the stain. Refinishing  with polyurethane looks great but doesn’t match the factory finish. The color and grain are different which I am sure is due to not using a wood filler. I didn’t do that for the main cabin. There I just lightly sanded and used 2-3 coats of polyurethane. It has held up perfectly and still has the even color and grain look that it always had. I am afraid if you try to sand out the dings and dimples you will ruin that part of the plywood veneer. It’s best to just live with it and be super careful about dropping heavy stuff on the sole. I guarantee you will never duplicate the factory finish on any wood surface down below. Unless it really looks like crap I’d just leave it alone. I tried to fill my dings with wood filler but it doesn’t match and are more visible than if I just varnished over them. Using epoxy which has more body to fill them might work but you will have to be supper careful you only fill the ding and when you sand, to make sure you just sand the epoxy. I’ve built and finished quite a bit of furniture so I know how difficult it is to match a factor finish especially when you don’t know what grain filler they used and what color stain. FYI grain filler is used to control the stain so it doesn’t go wild in the more porous parts of the wood. Generally the stain is more of a dye not just thinned out pigmented color. If you don’t do it right you could end up with splotchy color where the grain soaked in deeper.

Good luck and think long and hard about how much restoration you want to get involved with. A couple of fresh coats of polyurethane will do wonders and won’t change the look too much. Remember what ever you put over the factory finish will hid the grain and color a bit. But alternatively taking off the factory finish will change the look even more and maybe not to you liking. 

Bill #6

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 2, 2021, at 9:56 AM, Al Goethe <ankg...@gmail.com> wrote:

 So, I started my sole project. I quickly recognized that sanding the sole back to the bare wood is a bigger deal than I thought. With a random orbital sander I don’t seem to get down to the wood using 100 or even lower grit even after substantial sanding time. Another issue seems to be that the wood may have been stained originally - and it’s pretty impossible to get to the wood and NOT also take the stain off. 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/ED1B9D35-D9EF-40C2-A4FD-904EA8209402%40gmail.com.

[Al Goethe]

Thanks, Bill!

Well, it’s too late - have taken the first board back to the raw wood. So far there is no variation in the color across the board, it’s totally uniform. Of course, the test will be when I apply the first coat of epoxy! I’ll publish some pictures when I’m done!

One of the more challenging aspects of this effort is that more than half of the screws that hold down the boards broke off at the head when I took the boards up. I’m thinking of replacing them with bronze screws. Thoughts?

Where do I you get the original screws?

Sent from my iPhone

Al Goethe

On Jul 3, 2021, at 14:35, William Stellin <wste...@hotmail.com> wrote:

 Be very careful sanding as the veneer is thin and you are apt to sand through it. I used stripper on the vee berth sole and was disappointed with the results. The stripper got down to the bare wood and it also removed the grain filler as well as the stain. Refinishing  with polyurethane looks great but doesn’t match the factory finish. The color and grain are different which I am sure is due to not using a wood filler. I didn’t do that for the main cabin. There I just lightly sanded and used 2-3 coats of polyurethane. It has held up perfectly and still has the even color and grain look that it always had. I am afraid if you try to sand out the dings and dimples you will ruin that part of the plywood veneer. It’s best to just live with it and be super careful about dropping heavy stuff on the sole. I guarantee you will never duplicate the factory finish on any wood surface down below. Unless it really looks like crap I’d just leave it alone. I tried to fill my dings with wood filler but it doesn’t match and are more visible than if I just varnished over them. Using epoxy which has more body to fill them might work but you will have to be supper careful you only fill the ding and when you sand, to make sure you just sand the epoxy. I’ve built and finished quite a bit of furniture so I know how difficult it is to match a factor finish especially when you don’t know what grain filler they used and what color stain. FYI grain filler is used to control the stain so it doesn’t go wild in the more porous parts of the wood. Generally the stain is more of a dye not just thinned out pigmented color. If you don’t do it right you could end up with splotchy color where the grain soaked in deeper.

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/BLAPR19MB458049B27D058417BC8A08ACDD1E9%40BLAPR19MB4580.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

[William Stellin]

I thought the screws were bronze. Luckily I didn’t break any. Might try W W Grainger

Get Outlook for iOS

---

From: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Al Goethe <ankg...@gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, July 3, 2021 4:12:54 PM
To: j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com <j4x-owne...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [J/4X-owners] Varnish?

 

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/C71553A1-F3D4-4212-A908-E544D14EB8CF%40gmail.com.

[Joseph Ruzzi]

Jamestown Distributors is a supplier to the boatbuilding industry.   They have a huge selection of bronze fasteners...at total of 73 different bronze screws.  Here's the link:

https://www.jamestowndistributors.com/product/fasteners/screws-and-bolts?filterBy=%26filter.g_metal:Silicon%2520Bronze

Joe

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/j4x-owners-group/BLAPR19MB4580A812C7F62D1182D5C0A1DD1E9%40BLAPR19MB4580.namprd19.prod.outlook.com.

[Jim Demarest]

I  have experience the varnish turning white if left wet too long.  Once the marina left the companionway open and it rained.  two days later when I arrived the entire area around the companionway was white.  I used paper towels soaked in alcohol and covered with plastic wrap.  It will all stick to the wall/floor until it dries out. Make sure the cabin is well ventilated and avoid any sparks.  After a few hours the varnish is back to normal.