Re: {ila-members:2474} Re: REVISION IN MOTOR TARIFF Meeting

[M S Sainani, Surveyor / Loss Adjuster]

Dear Friends,

My Take is as below:

1. Proximate Cause - Inundation
2. Duration in water - water ingress in engine - 6 to 7 days
3. Repair - delayed 
4. Issue - Insurer's saying Engine Protection not opted for hence engine loss is not payable - Doesn't stands to test of reasonableness as Causa-proxima is STFI a covered peril, indian protection cover comes in to play due to breach of condition # 4 read along with condition # 3 as reproduced below. Engine cover varies slightly from Company to Company & in no way inundation can be stretched to engine guard / protection Add-On to named perils, please read excerpts from Private Car Policy below.
5. Contributory Factor - Water ingress must have been acidic in nature & would have starting acting immediately, was there a delay on account of insured to revive the engine (large Nos of inundation affected vehicles were there in workshop), delay can't be attributed to insured & the conditions were beyond insured's control & event, it's tail end continued due to presence of water inside the engine compartment & hence inundation event was not over & effect of inundation continued untill opening the engine by repairer.
6. Extent - Matter of extent of allowing items is subjective & depends on nature & extent of damages suffered due to ingress of water viz. erosion, corrosion, surface finish & is to be segregated from hydro-static or seizure losses if any.
7. relevant excerpts from Private Car package policy:

Quote

Conditions

3. The Company may at its own option repair reinstate or replace the vehicle or part thereof and/or its accessories or may pay in cash the amount of the loss or damage and the liability of the Company shall not exceed:

 

(a) for total loss / constructive total loss of the vehicle - the  Insured's Declared  Value (IDV) of the vehicle (including accessories  thereon)  as specified in the Schedule less the value of the wreck.

 

(b)  for partial losses, i.e. losses other than Total Loss/Constructive Total Loss of the vehicle -  actual and  reasonable costs of repair and/or replacement of parts lost/damaged subject to depreciation as per limits specified.

 

4.  The insured shall take all reasonable steps to safeguard  the vehicle  from loss or damage and to maintain it in efficient condition (- Insured took reasonable care by retrieving the vehicle whenever possible say after 6 - 7 day & delivered to the workshop for working) sand the Company shall have at all times free and full  access to examine the vehicle or any part thereof or any  driver or employee of the insured. In the event of any accident or breakdown, the vehicle shall not be left unattended without proper precautions being taken to prevent further damage or loss and if the vehicle be driven before the  necessary repairs are effected any extension of the damage or  any further damage to the vehicle shall be entirely at the  insured's own risk - (- No scene of aggravation at insured's end, muddy acidic water kept it's action ON till it was opened, drained, surfaces cleaned & protective layers applied by than the surface finish was already damaged).

Unquote

The insurers can be updated on above lines by letting them have our view point & agreement / dis-agreement could be left to them after quantifying the loss to our best of ability & belief with mention that applicability of indian protection add-on doesn't come in to play.

Hope that helps, please let us have divergent opinions on this including request to Sh Rajkumar to please share outcome.

Best regards

M S Sainani (SLA 15187 - 03/03/20)
+ 91 9414168144 | adjuste...@gmail.com | sai...@adjusterindia.com

Udaipur, Rajasthan.

On Tue, 10 Dec 2019 at 15:17, Ajit Kumar Mahanta <akmaha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Dear sir,

Aggravation of loss in this case would be very difficult to prove. Because, the loss has occurred due to flood and inundation. Insured or the driver is no way involved in aggravating the loss in this particular case. 

There could be many practical aspects as to why the vehicle was placed at the workshop late and late in undertaking the repairing the vehicle. 

As surveyors, our approach and opinions should be rationale and the innocent insured should not be penalized for no fault of him or her. The claim is very much payable.

With best regards

Ajit Kumar Mahanta

Surveyor : Loss Assessor
Guwahati, Assam
9435101946

   

On Tue 10 Dec, 2019 2:06 pm Bright Surveyor Investigator Valuer, <ss_b...@hotmail.com> wrote:

Dear Sir,

Loss to engine can be considered under Inundation peril - like flushing of engine oil, cleaning engine.  However looking into the situation, aggravation of loss  like replacement of piston due to rusting, etc has to be discussed with the claim underwriters for their consideration.

Thanks & regards, 

Sarbjit Singh Bright

B2/112, 1st Floor, RTO Build., 

Truck Terminal, Wadala, Mumbai 400 037.

Tel : 022 24046996

Cell # 9820065321

---

From: iiisla...@googlegroups.com <iiisla...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Chandrasekhara Raju <dasara...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 10, 2019 12:03 PM
To: iiisla-bengal <iiisla...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Raj Kumar <raj0...@gmail.com>; IIISLA Group <insurance-su...@googlegroups.com>; ila-m...@googlegroups.com <ila-m...@googlegroups.com>; Insurance-Adjusters <insurance...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {ila-members:2474} Re: REVISION IN MOTOR TARIFF Meeting

 

Operating peril is not 'Accidental External Means', bur Inundation (STFI peril).  Engine has to be allowed, since the cost of engine is included in IDV.

Regards,

D. Chandrasekhara Raju,

Insurance Surveyor, Hyderabad.

SLA-61764; IIISLA-F/S/02649.

+91-99490-95995.+91-98480-49742 (R).

On Tue, Dec 10, 2019 at 10:51 AM 'Naresh Kumar Gupta' via Indian Independent Insurance Surveyor And Loss Assessors Bengal <iiisla...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

No mistake. You are right.

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Mon, Dec 9, 2019 at 23:16, Raj Kumar

<raj0...@gmail.com> wrote:

D/All,

I have conducted survey of vehicles recently damaged due to insundation in Patna. Vehicles sunk in rain water mixed with drainage waste. It remain sunk for 6 to 8 days. Due to large no. vehciles the repairing delayed. Water also entered in to the engine. Insurer is saying that engine cano't be allowed unless add on cover of Engine protect is there in the policy. Due to rusting on piston head, I have allowed half engine in some cases with keeping in view the Peril "Accidental External Means"

Please confirm whether I have done mistake? 

It is bumble request to our seniors to render expert commnet on this issue.

With Regards

 

     

RAJ KUMAR

(Surveyor/Loss Assessors)

(BE, FIV, FIIISLA)

SLA - 27485 Exp.: 28/03/2020

311, Ratnagiri Apartment, Rajabazar, Patna - 800014

Cont: 9835015885 / 9430921618 / 0612-2295031.

On Sat, Dec 7, 2019 at 11:32 AM 'P L SIVAKUMAR' via Insurance Surveyors India <insurance-su...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Please discuss...

If the claim araises in last month of MOTOR policy period... adjustment of claim amount to renewal premium with reasonable discounts which will benefit to the insured..

P L SIVAKUMAR 

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 at 11:21, 'P L SIVAKUMAR' via Insurance Surveyors India

<insurance-su...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Please discuss....

Inclution of the word animal attack on motor perils like rat bite, sheep hit on seeing their reflection, dog biting   etc...

Inclusion of tipper truck damage ( self capsize) in motor policy, on paying extra premium..

Motor + MBD cover for motorized machines. For vehicle motor policy.  If compressor or Crane  mounted on vehicle MBD policy.. coverage..

Removal of policy excess...

Inclusion of Overloading defnition for passenger vehicle or goods vehicle,  with penalty details.

Insurer will compulsorily collect the TL Vehicle salvage and surrendering the RC with outsourcing. Also helps the insured for preclosing HP agrement.. 

P L SIVAKUMAR 

9843057530

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 at 10:50, 'VENKATARAMAN R.' via ila members

<ila-m...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Friends,

Further to the trailing mail, the following are some of the key points of highlight: 

1) Reporting of a claim within 24 hours

2) Higher depreciation schedule

3) Depreciation on paint 

4) TL/CTL claims - variations & clarity 

5) Use of Telematics 

and so on. 

Thanks. 

R. VENKATARAMAN
Surveyor & Loss Assessor
Mobile: 98430-43942
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android phone.

On Sat, 7 Dec 2019 at 10:35, 'VENKATARAMAN R.' via Insurance Surveyors India

<insurance-su...@googlegroups.com> wrote:

Dear Friends, 

Almost all of us are busy either in our day-to-day affairs, Regulations, EOI, and such other matters. 

In the midst of above, revision in motor tariff has been sidelined and kept in abeyance from our attention. We have the moral responsibility of giving our views as intermediaries in the industry as well as general policy holders. 

To achieve the objective we a few Surveyors from Tamil Nadu and Kerala are meeting today at Coimbatore to discuss and consolidate the opinions and suggestions towards the exposure draft released by IRDAI in regard to  the Revision in Motor Tariff. 

Any opinion or suggestion from your side may be shared to us if willing to be included in our compilation. 

Thanks. 

R. VENKATARAMAN
Surveyor & Loss Assessor
Mobile: 98430-43942
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android phone.

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[Lokesh Sharma Insurance Consultant]

Dear All Respected Members,

There is a claim reported in a CAR Policy for washed away of Embankment and other project assets including shattering material. Cause of loss is flood and inundation. Loss amount around Rs.10 Crs. out of which 85% is claim for Embankment only

The Policy does not have Wet Risk Excess, however location and description of risk is  well mentioned in the policy.

We have to give opinion to a broker, whether claim is payable or not, and if payable then how the assessment will be carried out as embankments is not part of the BoQ for contract work awarded (which is the base document for policy).

Regards,

Lokesh

[R. L. AGARWAL INSURANCE SURVEYORS AND LOSS ASSESSORS PVT. LTD.]

The embankment being not part of BOQ will not be payable as same is not covered under the Policy. Similarly the Shuttering material will also not be payable unless specifically covered under the Policy. Only the loss to construction material will be payable.

O P AGARWAL

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[Chand Bhatia]

One must first see the policy as to what is the contract for. Then the risk covered. If the contract is for making or repairing of embankment also then claim is accordingly. However shattering in my opinion is part of CPM and should have additional policy cover

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c k bhatia
09810231248

[Lokesh Sharma Insurance Consultant]

Dear Sirs,

My opinion is different as the cost of everything which is required to complete a project is part of project cost, like Embankment, but the insured needs to justify the following :

1.that he has built it,

2.it was required to built embankment complete the project,

3. what will be the cost of rebuilding it and

4. whether the rebuilding it again is required to complete the project

Then the same can be considered on rebuilding / original building cost (cost basis only) whichever is low.

I may be incorrect please clarify and improve my knowledge.

Regards

Lokesh

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