ID-DKB178

[Devendra Bhardwaj]

Hello, Plant from Virat nagar Forest Jaipur For  ID(ID-DKB178) It is Phyllanthus? Photo Taken on-26.8.2009 Regd Devendra

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[ajinkya gadave]

devendra jee
this is
Phyllanthus amarus (भुईआवळी)
Family :- Phyllanthaceae

[Gurcharan Singh]

Devender ji, I think Phyllanthus reticulatus

 

Gurcharan Singh

 

 

Dr. Gurcharan Singh
Associate Professor
SGTB Khalsa College
University of Delhi, Delhi
India
http://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45

[Dinesh Valke]

... Phyllanthus amarus

 

commonly known as: black catnip, carry me seed, child pick-a-back, gale of wind, gulf leaf flower, hurricane weed, shatterstone, stone breaker • Bengali: bhui amla • Hindi: bhui aonla, jar amla, jangli amli • Kannada: kirunelli, nelanelli • Marathi: भुईआवळी bhuiavali • Sanskrit: bahupatra, भूम्यामलकी bhumyaamalaki, jar amla, thamalaki • Tamil: கீழாநெல்லி keelanelli, கீழ்காய்நெல்லி kizkaynelli • Telugu: నేల ఉసిరి nela usiri

 

Regards.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear Dinesh ji and Devendra ji

 

I thought the plant photographed by Devendra ji appeared to be shrubby, and fruits larger and black- hence my guess about reticulatus.

 

P. niruri Linn, P. amarus and P. fraternus are three distinct species, but Indian specimens don't belong to P. niruri rather P. fraternus. P. niruri thus is not synonym of P. amarus (not P. niruri Linn or P. niruri Hook.f.). P. fraternus has larger leaves and 6 perianth, male and female fls in different axils  (male in lower axils, female in our axils), and 6-10 lobed disc. P. amarus has smaller leaves (yours are larger than mine P. fraternus hence the doubt), perianth 5 and 5-lobed disc.

[Dinesh Valke]

Gurcharan ji, the leaves in the photo attached by me are about 12 - 15 mm long, and about 5 - 8 mm wide ... the fruits seen are about 2 - 3 mm.

I am believing it to be P. amarus, and also P. niruri as its synonym.

 

However, I am keen to know whether I am mistaking, especially because there is too much mix up of P. amarus, P. niruri, and P. fraternus on the internet ...though whatever is discussed seemingly contradict.

 

Any clarity for differentiating these three species will greatly help in thrashing confusion and mistakes on the internet.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear Dinesh ji

 

Phyllanthus fraternus (with P. niruri Hook.f. non Linn. as syn) and P. amarus are both described in Eflora of Pakistan. Latter is described in Eflora of China, who mention that it was formerly misidentified as P. niruri. Presence of 5 perianth (as against 6 in P. fraternus), each leaf axil (most middle) with one male and one female flower (female flowers single in leaf axils in P. fraternus), disc 5 lobed (as against 6-10 lobed) are quite characteristic of P. amarus. Leaves are described as 3-8 x 2-4.5 mm in Eflora of Pakistan, 3-6 x 1.5-3 mm in Flora of China. Your plant with larger leaves could be different species.

    P. fraternus grows around my house and I have observed it constantly.

 

Let us explore further

[Dinesh Valke]

Gurcharan ji ... thank you very much for pointing info of the species.

So is it correct that Devendra ji's plant is P. fraternus ?

 

Regards.

[Devendra Bhardwaj]

Thanks to Gurcharan ji &Dinesh ji for correct ID. Regd Devendra --- On Sat, 29/8/09, Dinesh Valke <dinesh...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Dear Devendra ji

I think your plant is still unidentified. It has two clear features of P. amarus: male and female fls in same axils (most middle ones), and the leaves are much larger and broader, and one more things which I notice, your plant seems to be distinctly pubescent, and of diiferent colour (than my plant of P. fraternus, or plant of Dinesh ji). I think we will explore further before confirmation. It could be P. rotundifolius (if cataphylls are present- note small appendages in my photograph showing upper view of P. fraternus) or else Maderaspatensis (if cataphylls are absent). To me Dinesh ji plant fits better with P. maderaspatensis, but I am not certain at present. Before we resolve let us look at the following things, if you can find fresh plants. (There is, however, one caution. The plants flowering these days (at least in P. fraternus) have smaller leaves than ones I photographed in May-June):

 

1. whether plant is herbaceous or woody

2. presence or absence of pubescence

3. colour of leaves (yours are light green, mine and Dinesh ji's dark green)

4. Chape of leaves (that can be judged from photgraph)

5. Size of leaves

6. Whether middle portion has only female flowers, or mixed male and female

7. Number of perianth (some call them sepals), 6 in two whorls or 5 in one whorl

8. Tip of perianth pointed or rounded

9. Size of perianth

10. Size, shape and colour of fruits

11. Number of lobes of disc

12. Length of pedicel of female flower and fruit

 

For me even Dinesh ji's plant may turn out to be different. It has much more rigid leaves, even the branches appear rigid, leaves dark green. We may have to look at cataphylls to decide finally.

 

 

Let us hope something interesting comes out

[Tabish]

According to Kew World Checklist ( http://apps.kew.org/wcsp/home.do )
Phyllanthus amarus has the following synonyms:
Phyllanthus niruri var. amarus
Phyllanthus niruri var. scabrellus
Phyllanthus niruri var. baronianus
among others. Is supposed to be distributed (after introduction) in
parts of India.

Phyllanthus niruri's distribution in the Kew World Checklist does not
mention India.

Best wishes
- Tabish

On Aug 30, 8:52 am, "Gurcharan Singh" <sin...@sify.com> wrote:
> Dear Devendra ji
> I think your plant is still unidentified. It has two clear features of P. amarus: male and female fls in same axils (most middle ones), and the leaves are much larger and broader, and one more things which I notice, your plant seems to be distinctly pubescent, and of diiferent colour (than my plant of P. fraternus, or plant of Dinesh ji). I think we will explore further before confirmation. It could be P. rotundifolius (if cataphylls are present- note small appendages in my photograph showing upper view of P. fraternus) or else Maderaspatensis (if cataphylls are absent). To me Dinesh ji plant fits better with P. maderaspatensis, but I am not certain at present. Before we resolve let us look at the following things, if you can find fresh plants. (There is, however, one caution. The plants flowering these days (at least in P. fraternus) have smaller leaves than ones I photographed in May-June):
>
> 1. whether plant is herbaceous or woody
> 2. presence or absence of pubescence
> 3. colour of leaves (yours are light green, mine and Dinesh ji's dark green)
> 4. Chape of leaves (that can be judged from photgraph)
> 5. Size of leaves
> 6. Whether middle portion has only female flowers, or mixed male and female
> 7. Number of perianth (some call them sepals), 6 in two whorls or 5 in one whorl
> 8. Tip of perianth pointed or rounded
> 9. Size of perianth
> 10. Size, shape and colour of fruits
> 11. Number of lobes of disc
> 12. Length of pedicel of female flower and fruit
>
> For me even Dinesh ji's plant may turn out to be different. It has much more rigid leaves, even the branches appear rigid, leaves dark green. We may have to look at cataphylls to decide finally.
>
> Let us hope something interesting comes out
>
> Dr. Gurcharan Singh
> Associate Professor
> SGTB Khalsa College
> University of Delhi, Delhi

> Indiahttp://people.du.ac.in/~singhg45

>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Devendra Bhardwaj
>   To: Gurcharan Singh ; Dinesh Valke
>   Cc: indian...@googlegroups.com
>   Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 6:20 AM
>   Subject: Re: [indiantreepix:17144] Re: ID-DKB178
>
>         Thanks to Gurcharan ji &Dinesh ji for correct ID.
>         Regd
>         Devendra
>

>         --- On Sat, 29/8/09, Dinesh Valke <dinesh.va...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ----------------------------------------------------------

>                       See the Web's breaking stories, chosen by people like you. Check out Yahoo! Buzz
>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Gurcharan Singh]

Tabish ji
I think I have not been able to explain things clearly. I never wrote that
P. niruri grows in India. P. ninuri was wrongly identified in Flora of
British India, and Indian specimens were subsequently identified as P.
fraternus (Maheshwari, Flora of Delhi; Eflora of Pakistan; Useful plants of
India, etc) and hence the synonym as P. niruri Hook.f. (non Linn.). It
occurs in India and Pakistan- now naturalised elsewhere (also see
BalaKrishnan-family Euphorbiaceae in India; Wealth of India). So no
confusion about P. fraternus and P. niruri.
Now coming to P. amarus is an american species now naturalised in
Tropical Old World, including India, China and Japan. The specimens were/are
sometimes confused with P. niruri/P. fraternus/P. urinaria but is easily
distinguished by smaller leaves, lateral veins usually 3 pairs, male and
female flowers in same axil, perianth (sepals) 5 in number and disc 5-lobed.
It has two subspecies in China ssp. amarus (annual plants, erect) and ssp.
sanyaensis (biennial or perennial, trailing or prostrate. Both P. fraternus
and P. urinaria have 6 perianth, leaves of former being glabrous, fruit
glabrous, that of latter hispidulus along margin and fruit tuberculate.
Both P. fraternus and P. amarus are illustrated in Eflora of Pakistan.


I think there should be no confusion between P fraternus and P. amarus.
Both occur in India.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding again for ID

Distributed as Phyllanthus species- Virat nagar Forest Jaipur

Group discussion at

ID-DKB178 (google.com)  

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding again for ID

Distributed as Phyllanthus species- Virat nagar Forest Jaipur

Group discussion at

ID-DKB178 (google.com)  

[Paradesi Anjaneyulu]

Phyllanthus debelis,

With regards. 

Sender notified by Mailtrack 02/28/21, 10:40:23 PM

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Yes Paradesi Ji !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

To view this discussion on the web, visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/indiantreepix/CAPTGuvGkxJe3uSVBHupHm1wOTNESTQTdJeCZ0cP-h2WWP7dO_A%40mail.gmail.com.

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Phyllanthus debelis - from Paradesi ji

Yes Paradesi Ji ! Thank you. Saroj Kasaju

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Tapas Chakrabarty]

This is Phyllanthus airyshawii.

Best,

Tapas.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Tapas ji

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With regards,
J. M. Garg