Maytenus puberula (M.A.Lawson) Loes. @ Prabalgad 01-07-2012

[Samir Mehta]

Dear Fellow Group-Members,

Got a chance to go to Prabalgad with a trekking group, had wanted to go there for a long time, after seeing Prasant ji's posts from that area. As was to be expected, it was more of a trek than a flower watching trip - and a difficult one too.

Spotted this large unarmed shrub just short of Prabal machi, about ? 1000 ft asl, the lower surface of the leaf had hairs on the veins (cannot remember whether they were hispid or puberulous); flower size was approx.1cm.

There seems to be some confusion in the taxonomic nomenclature (unresolved in the plant list and not listed at ARS-GRIN and FoC or Fl Pakistan).
The id is based on Fl. Maharashtra 1:241 & 243, but here flowering season is given as Dec-Jan, needs to be checked and FBI 1:619.
The shrub is not listed in Shrikant ji's Flowers of Sahyadri or Further Flowers of Sahyadri and no image of it was available for comparison in the group database or on the net.

Will appreciate if this post can be validated.

[Rajesh Sachdev]

Dr Mahta,

Why not Maytenus senegalensis ?

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Regards

Rajesh Sachdev

http://project-matheran.webs.com
https://www.facebook.com/leopardguy

[Samir Mehta]

That's one of the things I considered Rajesh ji,but according to the keys Maytenus senegalensis is an 'armed' plant plus what really was decisive was the hair on the veins below, both FoM & FBI mention it, though the former calls it puberulous and the latter hispid.
I will also like to point out that certain features [in this case - hair on the leaf under-surface] are missed in the field & appreciated only on post-processing. My field id was Maytenus sp.

I am still open to correction provided a logical reason is given.

Trust that answers your query.

Regards,

Samir Mehta

[Samir Mehta]

'..both FoM & FBI mention it, though the former calls it puberulous and the latter hispid...'

Please read as:

..both FoM & FBI mention it, though the latter calls it puberulous and the former hispid.

[Prashant Awale]

Dear Samir ji,
Nice to know about yr trek to Prabalgad. Yes, this trek is bit exhaustive but interesting. At the top of Prabalgad underneath Karvi bushes, one can find  Christisonia calcarata.

Thanks for sharing the photographs. Nice one. Not in position to comment on its ID. So lets wait and see. 

Regards
Prashant

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again for Id confirmation or otherwise please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:      

“Dr Mahta,
Why not Maytenus senegalensis ?” from Rajesh ji.

 

“That's one of the things I considered Rajesh ji,but according to the keys Maytenus senegalensis is an 'armed' plant plus what really was decisive was the hair on the veins below, both FoM & FBI mention it, though the latter calls it puberulous and the former hispid.

I will also like to point out that certain features [in this case - hair on the leaf under-surface] are missed in the field & appreciated only on post-processing. My field id was Maytenus sp.

I am still open to correction provided a logical reason is given.

Trust that answers your query.

Regards,

Samir Mehta”

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[radhaveach]

Hi Samir,

I read your post and looked at your pics with great interest. You are right about the confusion regarding this and related species.
I have found WA Talbot's Forest Flora of Bombay Presidency and Sind to be very helpful here. Vol 1, (under Gymnosporia)
I think you are most probably correct in your identification because Talbot lists G. puberula as flowering in rainy season. My own photos of G. konkanensis closely resemble your's except that konkanensis has a spiny habit. I have checked Talbot's specimens in Blatter herbarium, also. Both species flower at this time.
 Dr Almeida has united Maytenus puberula with G. konkanensis but I do not agree at all unless there is variation in the habits of the 2 plants ie armed and unarmed. The leaves and flowers appear the same, at least in photographs.

Did you collect samples?
I have not seen this plant anywhere except on Tungareshwar, which is where Talbot collected G. konkanensis.

best regards,
Radha

[Robert H. Archer]

Dear Mahta, Garg ji

 

I confirmed this with Ms Jordaan, the authority on the genus Gymnosporia. This is definitely a good species but it should be listed as Gymnosporia puberula M.A.Lawson. It looks very different from Gymnosporia senegalensis. According to a number of studies it is now very clear there is no species of Maytenus in India or anywhere else but South America.

 

With best wishes, Robert

 

Dr. Robert H. Archer

Biodiversity Scientist

National Herbarium; South African National Biodiversity Institute

P. Bag X101, Pretoria 0001, South Africa

Tel: +27 12 843 5043

Fax: +27 12 804 3211

E-mail: R.Ar...@sanbi.org.za

Website: www.sanbi.org

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[Rohit Patel]

Dear All,


Please clarify me about the Maytenus emeginata (Gymnosporia montana) occurance in india.

regads


Rohit

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[Dinesh Valke]

Samir ji, many thanks for posting this plant.
Thanks to all: Samir ji, Radha ji and Dr Robert for the ID.

My sighting of the same plant:

Place: along the trail - opening to Prabal Machi, about 1380 ft asl
Time: 8 JUL 2012 and 11 JUL 2010

8 JUL 2012
.

.



11 JUL 2010
.



Regards.
Dinesh

[Samir Mehta]

Hi Radha,

Thanks for your interest in the post. You really added substance to the thread with your comments, apart from being refreshingly honest.
No, I did not collect samples.
Look forward to more interaction in the future.

Best Wishes,

Samir

[Samir Mehta]

Dear Archer,

Many Thanks for sharing Ms. Jordan's expert views with the group.

Regards,

Samir Mehta

[Samir Mehta]

Same plant Dinesh ji - no doubt.
We will take the elevation to be 1350 ft asl - as I know you were better 'armed'.

Regards,

Samir Mehta

[Prashant Awale]

Fantastic. Good to see the ID getting resolved. Thanks Samir ji and Dinesh for sharing this plant with all of us. New to me.
Regards
Prashant

[Samir Mehta]

Thank You Prashant ji;
Once again I reiterate that it was your posts from Prabalgad that encouraged me to go there.
Look forward to doing some flower-watching trips with you and Dinesh ji.

Regards,

Samir Mehta

[Robert H. Archer]

Dear All.

 

I would very much appreciate seeing a picture of a ripe fruit of a species of Cassine. The colour and shape is very diagnostic of the species.

 

Dr. Robert H. Archer

Biodiversity Scientist

National Herbarium; South African National Biodiversity Institute

P. Bag X101, Pretoria 0001, South Africa

Tel: +27 12 843 5043

Fax: +27 12 804 3211

E-mail: R.Ar...@sanbi.org.za

[jmgarg1]

Forwarding again for any assistance in the matter please.

[jmgarg1]

Hi, Dr. Archer,

Also check if you find any fruit image at efi site links:

https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/c/celastraceae/cassine

[surajit koley]

Garg Sir,

Found these images of cassine fruits in the net -

1. http://www.sgaptownsville.org.au/Elaeodendron-melanocarpum.html
2. http://keys.trin.org.au/key-server/data/0e0f0504-0103-430d-8004-060d07080d04/media/Html/taxon/Elaeodendron_melanocarpum.htm
3. http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Elaeodendron_melanocarpum_fruit.jpg
4. http://mangrovestomountains.com/gallery_elaeodendron_australe.html
5. http://www.flickr.com/photos/31031835@N08/3443669421/

Regards,

Surajit Koley

[Robert H. Archer]

Dear Surajit Ji, Garg Ji

 

Thank you very much. I am specifically very much hoping for  photos of fruiting specimens of Cassine albens (which are better known as Cassine glauca), Cassine paniculata, and Cassine grossa. See Kostermans in Gardens’ Bulletin Singapore, 39: 177-191 (1986) Title: Notes on Asiatic Cassine)). As well as Cassine kedernarthii  published later. Any additional photos of the flowers and leaves too will be appreciated.

 

With best wishes, Robert

 

Dr. Robert H. Archer

Biodiversity Scientist National Herbarium; South African National Biodiversity Institute

P. Bag X101, Pretoria 0001, South Africa

Tel: +27 12 843 5043

Fax: +27 12 804 3211

E-mail: R.Ar...@sanbi.org.za

Website: www.sanbi.org

 

[surajit koley]

Sir,

It appears to me that the net doesn't offer much images of ripe cassine fruits. However will give it a try one more time.

Regards,

Surajit

[Robert H. Archer]

Dear Surajit Ji

 

There have been many nice photos of Cassine here on efloraofindia. Since the size, shape and the colour of the fruit is so very diagnostic of the individual species in the genus, I am very much hoping that new photos with ripe fruit could be posted of the same plant or population as the original. The fruit take a long time to ripen.

 

With best wishes, Robert

 

[surajit koley]

Sir,

I have never seen any Cassine species. Certainly will upload and send a copy whenever i find one. Meanwhile, i hope my friends would be able to post some ripe fruits in near future.

Regards,

Surajit Koley

[Saroj Kumar Kasaju]

Gymnosporia puberula M.A.Lawson looks correct ID.  FoPI. FoI

Thank you

Saroj Kasaju

[Chennuru Nagendra]

I too agree with Saroj ji

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Mr. Nagendra!

Saroj Kasaju

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