Fabaceae (Faboideae) Fortnight :: Phaseolus vulgaris for validation :: Chakrata :: NS OCT 98/98

[Nidhan Singh]

Dear All,

Please validate or correct the id of this cultivated legume, recorded from Chakrata area...!!

Is this Phaseolus vulgaris?

--

Regards,

Dr. Nidhan Singh

Assistant Professor
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Nidhan ji.

I think you are right. Pl. see Phaseolus vulgaris 

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2500 members & 2,25,000 messages on 18.6.15) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "surajit koley" <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: 30 Oct 2015 00:04
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:234206] Fabaceae (Faboideae) Fortnight :: Phaseolus vulgaris for validation :: Chakrata :: NS OCT 98/98
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Nidhan Singh" <nidhans...@gmail.com>

I don't think it is Phaseolus vulgaris L. It's possibly a Vigna species.

[J.M. Garg]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "surajit koley" <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: 1 Nov 2015 21:18
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:234206] Fabaceae (Faboideae) Fortnight :: Phaseolus vulgaris for validation :: Chakrata :: NS OCT 98/98
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>
Cc: "Nidhan Singh" <nidhans...@gmail.com>

Nidhan Sir,

First i will tell you why it is not Phaseolus vulgaris L. In Phaseolus corolla morphology is different than Vigna or Dolichos like regular legume species. please check foc illustration (specially no.2 and 5) -http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=116327&flora_id=2. Corolla in Phaseolus mostly features-

1. standard suborbicular, quite different to other legume genera
2. wings equalling or exceeding standard
3. keel beaked, spiral
4. in P. v. calyx teeth is much smaller
5. in P. v. flower is subtended by persistent ovate bracteoles

The correct species images can be seen at https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/LvvFsri1xzQ/iZVItwPp8VYJ

My guess is that you identified your species based on uploads like -

• https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/sF4PXYr2UsU/FYltXojWCwAJ
  

Now, I will try to identify your species, featured by regular legume flower, long calyx teeth-

1. please check http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/265239/ (efi also features this species)
2. for varieties check http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/Forages/Media/Html/Macrotyloma_uniflorum.htm
3. though your 2nd pic seems to show cylindrical pod but immature pods are flattened (compressed) as can be seen in 5th pic of https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/sF4PXYr2UsU/FYltXojWCwAJ
4. hint of flattened pod can also be seen in your 1st pic

Your species is Macrotyloma uniflorum ILam.) Verdc.

Thank you

Regards

On 30 October 2015 at 00:04, surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think it is Phaseolus vulgaris L. It's possibly a Vigna species.

On 29 October 2015 at 15:56, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

[J.M. Garg]

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "surajit koley" <surajitno...@gmail.com>
Date: 3 Nov 2015 22:14
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:234206] Fabaceae (Faboideae) Fortnight :: Phaseolus vulgaris for validation :: Chakrata :: NS OCT 98/98
To: "Nidhan Singh" <nidhans...@gmail.com>
Cc: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

well, Sir, here is more authentic image of Phaseolus vulgaris - http://www.kew.org/science-conservation/plants-fungi/phaseolus-vulgaris-common-bean

Thank you

Regards

On 3 November 2015 at 20:02, Nidhan Singh <nidhans...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks a lot Surajit Ji for conclusive links and explanations leading to correction in id..

On Sun, Nov 1, 2015 at 9:18 PM, surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com> wrote:

Nidhan Sir,

First i will tell you why it is not Phaseolus vulgaris L. In Phaseolus corolla morphology is different than Vigna or Dolichos like regular legume species. please check foc illustration (specially no.2 and 5) -http://www.efloras.org/object_page.aspx?object_id=116327&flora_id=2. Corolla in Phaseolus mostly features-

1. standard suborbicular, quite different to other legume genera
2. wings equalling or exceeding standard
3. keel beaked, spiral
4. in P. v. calyx teeth is much smaller
5. in P. v. flower is subtended by persistent ovate bracteoles

The correct species images can be seen at https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/LvvFsri1xzQ/iZVItwPp8VYJ

My guess is that you identified your species based on uploads like -

• https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/sF4PXYr2UsU/FYltXojWCwAJ
  

Now, I will try to identify your species, featured by regular legume flower, long calyx teeth-

1. please check http://davesgarden.com/guides/pf/showimage/265239/ (efi also features this species)
2. for varieties check http://www.tropicalforages.info/key/Forages/Media/Html/Macrotyloma_uniflorum.htm
3. though your 2nd pic seems to show cylindrical pod but immature pods are flattened (compressed) as can be seen in 5th pic of https://groups.google.com/d/msg/indiantreepix/sF4PXYr2UsU/FYltXojWCwAJ
4. hint of flattened pod can also be seen in your 1st pic

Your species is Macrotyloma uniflorum ILam.) Verdc.

Thank you

Regards

On 30 October 2015 at 00:04, surajit koley <surajitno...@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't think it is Phaseolus vulgaris L. It's possibly a Vigna species.

On 29 October 2015 at 15:56, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Ushadi Micromini]

Phaseolus vulgaris is not one plant type

its a group of large numbers of beans  haricot beans... kidney beans, french beans, navy beans white beans , etc have about 14,000 cultivars ...  with flowers in lax, axillary few-flowered (12) racemes, zygomorphic, variegated, white, pink, or purplish, ca 1 cm long (from the same James DUke Book)  when one cooks them they all feel and taste different. and their nutrition values are different and their lectin contents and their toxicites are different.

Yet botanically all are classified as Phaseolus vulgaris L.

and this shows a few of the varieties of Phaseolus vulgaris seeds ...

SO what Kew is showing is not academically correct to represent the 14,000+ cv s flowers which sho w differences

it may be just as an example

Nidhan's original picture shows the so called french bean of vegetable garden variety  with creamy flowers

if it were Kulath Kalai  or horse gram as has been suggested those beans look different and are shorter  and much flatter and wider than shown in Gurcharnji's pictures and Nidhan's pictures

that's just an opinion of a gardener

I dont want fights

Its upto qualified Botanists to decide, Nidhan is one himself

Nidhan do you have follow up on your case

did you allow the plant to maturity and look at the beans as they matured?

and seeds??

were they one of the many // regular beans or Kulathi

usha di

Usha di
===========

[Gurcharan Singh]

On Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 7:49:37 AM UTC+5:30, Nidhan Singh wrote:

Dear All,

Please validate or correct the id of this cultivated legume, recorded from Chakrata area...!!

Is this Phaseolus vulgaris?

I I think There is no reason to confuse this plant with  Macrotyloma uniflorum whose pods and seeds are so different. We have been growing this plant in our house, harvesting its pods and seeds for many years.Here is how Macrotyloma uniflorum looks

https://www.gene.affrc.go.jp/databases-plant_images_detail_en.php?plno=5420230003 

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks a lot, Singh ji.

But why flowers (including the calyx) look so different from images at Phaseolus vulgaris ?

Is there any mix up of images ?

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2800 members & 2,65,000 messages on 31.3.17) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 2,50,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Manoj Chandran ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Manoj Chandran
Date: 9 July 2017 at 13:26
Subject: Re: [efloraofindia:234206] Fabaceae (Faboideae) Fortnight :: Phaseolus vulgaris for validation :: Chakrata :: NS OCT 98/98
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Yes it is

On Thu, Oct 29, 2015 at 3:56 PM, J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Thanks, Nidhan ji.

I think you are right. Pl. see Phaseolus vulgaris 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Nidhan Singh <nidhans...@gmail.com>
Date: 22 October 2015 at 07:49
Subject: [efloraofindia:234206] Fabaceae (Faboideae) Fortnight :: Phaseolus vulgaris for validation :: Chakrata :: NS OCT 98/98
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear All,

Please validate or correct the id of this cultivated legume, recorded from Chakrata area...!!

Is this Phaseolus vulgaris?

--

Regards,

Dr. Nidhan Singh

Assistant Professor
Department of Botany
I.B. (PG) College
Panipat-132103 Haryana
Ph.: 09416371227

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepix+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.

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Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/indiantreepix.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'
The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2500 members & 2,25,000 messages on 18.6.15) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,00,000 images). Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2800 members & 2,65,000 messages on 31.3.17) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 2,50,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[Gurcharan Singh]

Forwarding for ID

Distributed as   Macrotyloma uniflorum ?

I have downloaded and looked at the images. Garg ji's doubt is valid, calyx lobes are much longer (1 mm in P. vulgaris, 3-8 mm in M. uniflorum), though fruit looks longer (4-5 cm long in M. uniflorum, 10-15 cm P. vulgaris), purple spot on upper petal goes in favour of M. uniflorum. The deciding factor would be style if visible (style thinner in lower part, thicker upper part coiling more than 360 degrees in P. vulgaris; style not divided into distinct thinner and thicker parts, much shorter, not coiled in M. uniflorum) 

Group discussion at

Fabaceae (Faboideae) Fortnight :: Phaseolus vulgaris for validation :: Chakrata :: NS OCT 98/98 (google.com)

To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to indiantreepi...@googlegroups.com.

[Gurcharan Singh]

  Forwarding for ID

Distributed as   Macrotyloma uniflorum ?

I have downloaded and looked at the images. Garg ji's doubt is valid, calyx lobes are much longer (1 mm in P. vulgaris, 3-8 mm in M. uniflorum), though fruit looks longer (4-5 cm long in M. uniflorum, 10-15 cm P. vulgaris), purple spot on upper petal goes in favour of M. uniflorum. The deciding factor would be style if visible (style thinner in lower part, thicker upper part coiling more than 360 degrees in P. vulgaris; style not divided into distinct thinner and thicker parts, much shorter, not coiled in M. uniflorum) 

Group discussion at

Fabaceae (Faboideae) Fortnight :: Phaseolus vulgaris for validation :: Chakrata :: NS OCT 98/98 (google.com)

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Nidhan Singh <nidhans...@gmail.com>
Date: Thursday, October 22, 2015 at 7:49:37 AM UTC+5:30
Subject: Fabaceae (Faboideae) Fortnight :: Phaseolus vulgaris for validation :: Chakrata :: NS OCT 98/98
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

[Saroj Kasaju]

Yes !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[Gurcharan Singh]

Finally I think all three images belong to Macrotyloma uniflorum,  image 1 has both typical flower of this species, so are image 4 and 5. Image 2 seems to mixed up fruit of Phaseolus vulgaris.