Himalayan plant from Manipur - TQ-mu02

[Tabish]

Unidentified plant from Shirui hill, Ukhrul, Manipur. Altitude 1500-2500 m.

Found blooming in early June.

Looks like a shrub. My guess is Vaccinium spp., but that's just a guess.

 Please identify

  Tabish

[Nidhan Singh]

Or any Pieris sp.

[J.M. Garg]

Pl. check https://sites.google.com/site/efloraofindia/species/a---l/e/ericaceae/pieris/pieris-formosa

On Thu 21 Jun, 2018, 1:40 PM Nidhan Singh, <nidhans...@gmail.com> wrote:

Or any Pieris sp.

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[Tabish]

Thanks Garg ji. There is a superficial similarity with Pieris formosa, but the leaves don't really agree and Pieris formosa has lanceshaped sepals whereas in the flowers of my plant, the sepals are triangular.

   Tabish

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[Saroj Kumar Kasaju]

Vaccinium dunalianum Wight ???

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Tabish]

Vaccinium dunalianum has leaf margins not toothed.

   Tabish

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Dear tabish,

Initially I thought so but found an image in web and 

accordingly I guessed.  May be the image in the web

is not correct .

https://www.google.com.np/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8002%2F7558244036_d5df37904e_b.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fpicssr.com%2Ftags%2Fvacciniumdunalianum&docid=xz-Ic9AAvJAi3M&tbnid=dPbSxWQ_cLyzsM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwi5ooj8xubbAhXWTn0KHUNFB0cQMwg0KAYwBg..i&w=1024&h=766&itg=1&bih=423&biw=911&q=Vaccinium%20dunalianum&ved=0ahUKEwi5ooj8xubbAhXWTn0KHUNFB0cQMwg0KAYwBg&iact=mrc&uact=8

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[J.M. Garg]

Pl. check at Vaccinium

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2975 members & 2,90,000 messages on 31.3.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images).

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[Dr Pankaj Kumar]

Tabish sir, I am so happy that you were very specific in saying Himalayan plant from Manipur. Otherwise I know some people who say Plant from Manipur Himalaya and i get a heart attack !!!

:)

Best regards

Pankaj

[Saroj Kasaju]

😁👍

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for id pl 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu 21 Jun, 2018, 11:55 AM
Subject: [efloraofindia:297697] Himalayan plant from Manipur - TQ-mu02
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for id pl 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu 21 Jun, 2018, 11:55 AM
Subject: [efloraofindia:297697] Himalayan plant from Manipur - TQ-mu02
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding again for id pl 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu 21 Jun, 2018, 11:55 AM
Subject: [efloraofindia:297697] Himalayan plant from Manipur - TQ-mu02
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

[Ritesh Kumar Choudhary]

Vaccinium for me too.

Regards,

Ritesh

​

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Kanhaiya Lal ji.

On 12 July 2018 at 14:55, Kanhaiya Lal Chaudhary <klchau...@gmail.com> wrote:

Does appear to be Vaccineum. But do not have the flora to determine the correct spp.

Regards 

On Wed, 11 Jul 2018, 09:03 J.M. Garg, <jmg...@gmail.com> wrote:

Forwarding again for id pl 

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>
Date: Thu 21 Jun, 2018, 11:55 AM
Subject: [efloraofindia:297697] Himalayan plant from Manipur - TQ-mu02
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>

Unidentified plant from Shirui hill, Ukhrul, Manipur. Altitude 1500-2500 m.

Found blooming in early June.

Looks like a shrub. My guess is Vaccinium spp., but that's just a guess.

 Please identify

  Tabish

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[J.M. Garg]

Hi, Tabish ji,

If you check the species given under Checklist of Nepal and Flora of China at Vaccinium‎ (which are already not there in our database), you should certainly get the match.

 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>
Date: 21 June 2018 at 11:55

Subject: [efloraofindia:297697] Himalayan plant from Manipur - TQ-mu02

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[Saroj Kasaju]

https://www.google.com.np/url?sa=i&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwiYx4qnzrXcAhXWbisKHeNsAhkQjRx6BAgBEAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpicssr.com%2Ftags%2Fvacciniumdunalianum&psig=AOvVaw1_VMkPqtMD29tZA_2bPZ36&ust=1532448628735188   ????

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[J.M. Garg]

Looks different from Tabish ji's images.

With regards,
J.M.Garg

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 2975 members & 3,00,000 messages on 25.7.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 12,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which 1,00,000 are directly displayed).

[J.M. Garg]

Vaccinium exaristatum Kurz ??
Thank you.
Saroj Kasaju

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Tabish <tab...@gmail.com>

Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2018 at 11:55
Subject: [efloraofindia:297697] Himalayan plant from Manipur - TQ-mu02
To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

[J.M. Garg]

Flora of China does not give any distribution in India.

Hardly any image on net except this one:

https://www.earth.com/earthpedia/plant/zh-CN/vaccinium-exaristatum/

May also check with herbarium specimen at GBIF.

Difficult for me to say yes.

[Saroj Kasaju]

Actually I had verified with POWO and accordingly suggested!

 Vaccinium exaristatum Kurz 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Saroj Kumar Kasaju]

plantillustrations.org 379968Vaccinium exaristatum Kurz [as Vaccinium longitubulosum J.J. Sm.] Mededeelingen van ’s Rijks Herbarium, p. 6, fig. 8 ()

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- more than 3,000 members & 3,00,000 messages on 23.8.18) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 13,000 species & 3,00,000 images of which more than 2,00,000 images are directly displayed on 30.8.19).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[Tabish]

Thanks Saroj!

   Vaccinium exaristatum does seem very close to to my plant. The description of the leaves at FOC agrees well, elliptic, with 4-5 pairs of veins, and toothed margin. Triangular sepals, erect or curled-back, triangular flower lobes also agree. The flowers of my plant also appear to agree with the images at earth.com and plantillustrations. Altitude agrees too. To me it looks like Saroj has nailed it!

   Tabish

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Tabish,

Finally! I am happy !

Saroj Kasaju

[Tabish]

PS: In the following paper

  https://threatenedtaxa.org/index.php/JoTT/article/view/847

Vaccinium exaristatum is said to be distributed in Manipur too.

  Tabish

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[Tabish]

I had sent the images of my plant to Dr. S. Panda, author of the paper I had just mentioned. I received his response just now:

-------------------------------------------------------

From: Subhasis Panda <****pa...@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2019 14:04:41 +0530

Thank you sir for your mail
Images sent by you belong to
Vaccinium griffithianum
-------------------------------------

I must say that looking at the sketches here and here, I find the agreement to be very good, 
especially the leaf size and the arrangement of the leaves!

   Tabish

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On Tue, Nov 19, 2019 at 11:02 AM Tabish <tab...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Tabish]

I think we all missed Vaccinium griffithianum because it is not listed on efloras.org.

It reemphasizes the need for an up to date online Flora of India.

   Tabish

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[Saroj Kasaju]

I don't think it matches with Vaccinium griffithianum rather your 1st image

looks matching with image F of page no.  3459 of enclosed journal 

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Tabish]

Dear Saroj,

   I also initially thought so, and that's why sent an email to the author. However, if you look at the flowers visible in the image F, they are so tiny compared to the leaves. The earth com image also shows a similar size of the leaves compared to the flowers. In my plant, as you can see, the leaves are not so large compared to the flowers.

Also, the leaflike bracts with each flower, that are visible in my images, are visible the same way in sketches at

 plantillustrations . For Vaccinium exaristatum it is mentioned that the bracts fall off - so I presumed that maybe in 
my plant they have not fallen off yet. Flower color in Vaccinium exaristatum is mentioned to be pink, but of course that 
cannot be taken to be hard and fast. Overall I find the agreement with Vaccinium griffithianum very satisfying, both with 
the sketches and also with the description in Flora of British India III, page 454.

   Tabish

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[Saroj Kasaju]

OK! Please see this also ! 

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F3%2F39%2FVaccinium_griffithii_%252813985125886%2529.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fspecies.wikimedia.org%2Fwiki%2FVaccinium_griffithianum&tbnid=w8Er8GPxP4m1SM&vet=12ahUKEwjgsoGotPblAhULh48KHVCYAyUQMygAegQIARAr..i&docid=KE0Mtfu-HZDD1M&w=2448&h=3264&q=Vaccinium%20griffithianum%20&hl=en-GB&ved=2ahUKEwjgsoGotPblAhULh48KHVCYAyUQMygAegQIARAr

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

--

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[Tabish]

This wikimedia image doesn't agree well with the sketches of Vaccinium griffithianum, that's all I can say.

   Tabish

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www.flowersofindia.net
The waterhole of flower lovers

[Saroj Kasaju]

Ok !

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

[ushadi]

Tabish and Saroj

wiki is not always right

lots of mistakes

i find in medicine, and medicinal plants

Regards

Ushadi

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Agree!

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[ushadi]

Interesting case, Dear ALL

I like cases  like this one: never say never

the FOC link you gave, Mr Garg

shows its data source is Vaccinium exaristatum Kurz, J. Asiat. Soc. Bengal. 42(2): 86. 1873.

Notice, its from Journal of the Asiatic Soc of Bengal

I just downloaded it,( its still trying to complete it after one hour.....)

FOC mentions this:  from his long list and essay titled  NEW BURMESE PLANTS

He lists about 6 or 7 Vaccinium species, including Vaccinium exaristatum 

I have not had time ( with all the caregiving duties) to look thru hundreds of pages of this adobe file

for a map and distribution if he at all gave one

or made one

he does however  mention Martaban at the end of the paragraph

so i take it he found it near the gulf of Martaban in Burmah

(remember our Kela we eat : one variety is the martaban... )

AND  my point is,  if it was growing in Burma in 1873

it can for sure happen to grow in the northeastern indian states now

what with human and animal migration on foot and animals

Some of my family and friends' families walked all the way from

rangoon in those days to Assam and then to kolkata and beyond

during the war.... as refugees...  there were thousands in the long caravan over the years

and there is still a constant flight of people ...

just like goats and birds, the human  can for sure move seeds and fruits and bacteria and viruses etc etc

this is a point I have been trying to make here for a long time

lets not say never

and get disheartened  if we don't find something in published lists

there is always a first....

so first we have to be very sure of our diagnosis

and go from there

may be now it can be listed as being found in INDIA

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[D.S Rawat]

Attaching here diagrams of these two species. These are from the account of all species of Vaccinium in India written by Dr M.Sanjappa and Dr S.Panda. Dr Panda is the best available expert on Vaccinium in India considering his work on this genus.

May be these diagram are helpful here.

DSRawat Pantnagar

[Saroj Kasaju]

Very interesting discussions coming up ! Still I could not decide between the two!

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[ushadi]

May be Tabish could help

in remembering more of the details

of if he has any herbarium specimen?

Regards

Ushadi

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[ushadi]

Thank you Dr. Rawat.

may be Gargji could get Dr Panda to look at this case ?

Regards

Ushadi

[J.M. Garg]

Mr. Panda has already given id as pointed out by Tabish ji. 

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[Tabish]

Notice the big difference in the two sketches: Flower-spike is about the size of a leaf in Vaccinium exaristatum, whereas it is much longer than the length of a leaf in Vaccinium griffithianum.

You can see from the pictures that I posted, the flowers-spike is much longer than the leaves. So, I have no doubt now that my plant is Vaccinium griffithianum.

  Tabish

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[Saroj Kasaju]

Though My guess is not correct I am happy about the outcome of correct ID and fruitful 

discussions. It is a result of my continuous inquisitiveness!😁

Thank you.

Saroj Kasaju

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[ushadi]

Thanks, Tabish and garg ji and Dr Rawat

in bing the paper Tabish quoted was not coming up   etc etc

Now i see that Dr Panda has seen this

and Dr Rawat's figures clinched it for me

Regards

Ushadi

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