Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36

[Prashant Awale]

Dear Friends,

This Astragalus sp. was spotted en-route Changla Pass at an altitude of approx. 16000 ft.

Date/Time: 21-06-2016 / 11:30AM

Regards

Prashant

[J.M. Garg]

Marvelous images, Prashant ji.

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding  again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Astragalus species so far in eFloraofindia

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[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding  again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Astragalus species so far in eFloraofindia

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Prashant Awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Date: 10 July 2016 at 12:11
Subject: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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[J.M. Garg]

Forwarding  again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Astragalus species so far in eFloraofindia

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Prashant Awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Date: 10 July 2016 at 12:11
Subject: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: C CHADWELL
Date: 26 September 2016 at 02:18
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Yes, this is Astragalus.  Like Oxytropis, this is a large and difficult genus identification-wise.

The most up-to-date check-list for Ladakh (Dickore & Klimes) lists some 30 species.

Stewart listed 26 species.

Stewart did not list A.candolleanus from Ladakh (but there were records from bordering Baltistan) but Dickore & Klimes do.

Dickore & Klimes do not list A.zanskarensis but perhaps one of the species they list is the up-to-date name for it?

Anyhow,  I currently have two likely candidates for this plant.  According to 'Flowers of the Himalaya', A.candolleanus and A.zanskarensis are very much alike but do not meaningfully distinguish between the two - though they claim that the latter

species is common in Ladakh, albeit only to 4300m (the photos were taken on Chang La at 4800m).  This book says

A.candolleanus is common in Chamba and some inner valleys of Nepal.

Can the botanist with special knowledge of the genus help us or anyone else?  Do the photos reveal sufficient detail?

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

http://www.shpa.org.uk/

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>
To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 25 September 2016, 7:02
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36

Forwarding  again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Astragalus species so far in eFloraofindia

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Prashant Awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Date: 10 July 2016 at 12:11
Subject: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: indiantreepix <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>

Dear Friends,

This Astragalus sp. was spotted en-route Changla Pass at an altitude of approx. 16000 ft.

Date/Time: 21-06-2016 / 11:30AM

Regards

Prashant

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

[Promila Chaturvedi]

It seems to be A. zanskarensis.

Promila

Thanks, Chadwell ji.

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 25 September 2016, 7:02
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36

Forwarding  again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Astragalus species so far in eFloraofindia

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Prashant Awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Date: 10 July 2016 at 12:11
Subject: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear Friends,

This Astragalus sp. was spotted en-route Changla Pass at an altitude of approx. 16000 ft.

Date/Time: 21-06-2016 / 11:30AM

Regards

Prashant

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--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

'Creating awareness of Indian Flora & Fauna'

Winner of Wipro-NFS Sparrow Awards 2014 for efloraofindia. 

For identification, learning, discussion & documentation of Indian Flora, please visit/ join our Efloraofindia Google e-group (largest in the world- around 2700 members & 2,40,000 messages on 31.3.16) or Efloraofindia website (with a species database of more than 11,000 species & 2,20,000 images).

The whole world uses my Image Resource of more than a thousand species & eight thousand images of Birds, Butterflies, Plants etc. (arranged alphabetically & place-wise). You can also use them for free as per Creative Commons license attached with each image.

Also author of 'A Photoguide to the Birds of Kolkata & Common Birds of India'.

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[chrischa...@btinternet.com]

Please tell me how one distinguishes between A.zanskarensis and A.candolleanus?

[J.M. Garg]

Here is the high resolution Lectotype of Astragalus zanskarensis

https://science.mnhn.fr/institution/mnhn/collection/p/item/p00632459

Other isotypes can be seen at GBIF

Thanks, Chadwell ji.

To: efloraofindia <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 25 September 2016, 7:02
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36

Forwarding  again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Astragalus species so far in eFloraofindia

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Prashant Awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Date: 10 July 2016 at 12:11
Subject: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

Dear Friends,

This Astragalus sp. was spotted en-route Changla Pass at an altitude of approx. 16000 ft.

Date/Time: 21-06-2016 / 11:30AM

Regards

Prashant

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[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "C CHADWELL" <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Date: 3 Oct 2016 23:18
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

Cc:

Most helpful to have this(these) available - the low resolution images of herbarium specimens

are often frustrating!

I shall examine these further. 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

http://www.shpa.org.uk/

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>
Cc: Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>; chrischadwell261@btinternet.com; Promila Chaturvedi <thegardener.chaturvedi@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 3 October 2016, 13:47

Thanks, Chadwell ji.

To: efloraofindia <mailto:indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, 25 September 2016, 7:02
Subject: Fwd: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36

Forwarding  again for Id assistance please.

Some earlier relevant feedback:

Astragalus species so far in eFloraofindia

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Prashant Awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Date: 10 July 2016 at 12:11
Subject: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: indiantreepix <mailto:indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>

Dear Friends,

This Astragalus sp. was spotted en-route Changla Pass at an altitude of approx. 16000 ft.

Date/Time: 21-06-2016 / 11:30AM

Regards

Prashant

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To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to mailto:indiantreepix+unsub...@googlegroups.com.

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Chadwell ji.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: C CHADWELL <chrischa...@btinternet.com>
Date: 7 October 2016 at 05:37
Subject: Re: Fwd: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: "J.M. Garg" <jmg...@gmail.com>

May I draw attention to the fine high-resolution image of Astragalus rhizanthus which Mr Garg located

(see below) on the Museum of Natural History, Paris site.  This permits us to examine the specimen in much

better detail than is possible with the low resolution images available from Kew (grateful though I am for these).

For anyone not fully aware of the advantages having a good quality pressed specimen of a plant to enable

accurate and reliable identification compared with just one or two general photos and even a set of top quality

close-up images, then take a look at the dissected flower of this Astragalus below the main specimen but above the

label.  The floral parts have been stuck to a piece of card & pinned on to the herbarium sheet.

One can zoom in to examine the different parts of the Fabaceae (previously Leguminosae) flower which consists

(from left to right): the tubular calyx with 5 short teeth; a large standard petal; 2 lateral wing petals and two lower keel petals

originally +/- connate by their lower margins with blunt tips; 9 fused stamens, 1 free; then one can see the style & stigma.

Sometimes it is necessary to examine floral parts in such detail and for certain genera parts of the plant may need to be

viewed at X20 or greater magnification using a binocular microscope.

Naturally, in such cases, only a pressed specimen will do.  Few of us have cameras that can show such detail. This will

help you understand why specialists in certain genera require good quality pressed specimens to identify the species, rather

than general photos.  Yes, some species within these genera are distinctive enough to reliably name without a specimen but

others, it can be virtually impossible, with highly speculative attempts at identification leading to numerous misidentifications

and a lack of understanding of the range and rarity or not of many species.

By the way, it can sometimes be hard to decide in the Himalaya whether a plant belongs to the Astragalus genus or Oxytropis.

IF one is in the mountains and comes across any specimen in flower, they can examine with a x10 or x20 hand lens the apex

of the keel of an individual flower.  In Oxytropis a beak is present but not in Astragalus.   This is not something which can be ascertained from most photographs. 

For serious photographers of plants in the Himalaya whose cameras have suitable macro-facilities, then removing an

individual bloom will not damage the plant itself.  Spreading these out/dissecting (or pressing them quickly) and photographing the

standard, wings & keel petals plus calyx would be most useful.  Nobody will object to a single flower being sacrificed to help ensure

a correct identification - after all you are not uprooting the plant or doing any appreciable harm.  This is not always necessary but certainly close-ups of the flowers showing the different petals as in nature, not forgetting detail of sepals/calyx, as a standard image for plant photographed is highly desirable.   Clearly, if one is in a reserve or national park one must act responsibly and within the rules and regulations which apply.  Formal plant surveys may involve gathering of pressed voucher specimens for reference in herbaria and permission should be sought from the appropriate authorities, in advance.

I now typically take 10-20 images per plant I come across.  If anyone wishes further advice about such photography, they are most welcome to contact me directly for further advise.  I am particularly keen to view more images of plants photographed in Ladakh in particular but anywhere in the NW Himalaya/Indian Trans-Himalaya are of particular interest.  Anyone planning a trip to such places in 2017 or beyond may wish to ensure their efforts will enhance existing photographic records. 

Best Wishes,

Chris Chadwell

81 Parlaunt Road 
SLOUGH
SL3 8BE
UK

www.shpa.org.uk

---

From: J.M. Garg <jmg...@gmail.com>

To: efloraofindia <indiantreepix@googlegroups.com>

Cc: Prashant awale <pka...@gmail.com>; chrischadwell261@btinternet.com; Promila Chaturvedi <thegardener.chaturvedi@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, 3 October 2016, 13:47

[J.M. Garg]

Astragalus oplites Benth. ex R.Parker ??
Thank you
Saroj Kasaju

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Prashant Awale <pka...@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 10 Jul 2016 at 12:11
Subject: [efloraofindia:246946] Astragalus sp-??- at Changla pass route - Ladakh-- July-PKA-36
To: indiantreepix <indian...@googlegroups.com>

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With regards,
J.M.Garg

[J.M. Garg]

Thanks, Saroj ji, for the id.

Yes, matches with images from India in GBIF:

https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2451582767

https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2451583611

--

With regards,
J.M.Garg

[Saroj Kasaju]

Thank you Mr. Garg !

Saroj Kasaju

[Prashant Awale]

Thanks Saroj Ji & Garg ji.

Happy to see Ids getting resolved ..

Regards

Prashant

[Saroj Kasaju]

My pleasure !

Thank you Prashant Ji !

Saroj Kasaju